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Do the Chaos gods have any opposites? I suppose GW would love to keep the WH40K UNiverse as GRIMDARK as possible, but shouldn't positive emotions such as hope or compassion (who in the 40k universe would probably be weak, considering the entire Imperium of Man is built on being xeno-phobic hard-asses), create gods the same way things like rage/anger or pleasure did? And assuming they could exist, where would they be? A section of the warp? A different dimension altogether?

Because if they don't exist in GW lore, I'm making some up.

McNinja wrote:Do the Chaos gods have any opposites? I suppose GW would love to keep the WH40K UNiverse as GRIMDARK as possible, but shouldn't positive emotions such as hope or compassion (who in the 40k universe would probably be weak, considering the entire Imperium of Man is built on being xeno-phobic hard-asses), create gods the same way things like rage/anger or pleasure did? And assuming they could exist, where would they be? A section of the warp? A different dimension altogether?

Because if they don't exist in GW lore, I'm making some up.

Tzeentch is the god of Hope.

Nurgle is IIRC the god of compassion, though I'm not sure on that, I've even heard people call Khorne that (Seriously).

The Chaos Gods embody both negative and positive emotions.

On another note, the C'tan are essentially the opposites of the Chaos Gods, Gods in the physical realm rather than the Warp, who essentially seek a galaxy of absolute order, where nothing will ever change for the rest of eternity. They are beings of anti-Chaos.

Nurgle is the god of 'grandfatherly' or parental devotion and compassion, you're ight.

Khorne is honour and martial prowess/skill.

Slaanesh is beauty and art, or some such.

But yeah, even the Chaos Gods, grimdark though they may be, also embody a 'lighter' side that coincides within their domain.

Void__Dragon wrote:

McNinja wrote:Do the Chaos gods have any opposites? I suppose GW would love to keep the WH40K UNiverse as GRIMDARK as possible, but shouldn't positive emotions such as hope or compassion (who in the 40k universe would probably be weak, considering the entire Imperium of Man is built on being xeno-phobic hard-asses), create gods the same way things like rage/anger or pleasure did? And assuming they could exist, where would they be? A section of the warp? A different dimension altogether?

Because if they don't exist in GW lore, I'm making some up.

Nurgle is IIRC the god of compassion, though I'm not sure on that, I've even heard people call Khorne that (Seriously).

Well, Khârn does love kittehs..

No, the chaos gods are both positive and negative emotions...make a Nurlge CSM army based around "life" and make them happy happy flower power marines

Oh the nerd-rage that would go on every time you battled a fluff nazi....

Void__Dragon wrote:

McNinja wrote:Do the Chaos gods have any opposites? I suppose GW would love to keep the WH40K UNiverse as GRIMDARK as possible, but shouldn't positive emotions such as hope or compassion (who in the 40k universe would probably be weak, considering the entire Imperium of Man is built on being xeno-phobic hard-asses), create gods the same way things like rage/anger or pleasure did? And assuming they could exist, where would they be? A section of the warp? A different dimension altogether?

Because if they don't exist in GW lore, I'm making some up.

Tzeentch is the god of Hope.

Nurgle is IIRC the god of compassion, though I'm not sure on that, I've even heard people call Khorne that (Seriously).

The Chaos Gods embody both negative and positive emotions.

On another note, the C'tan are essentially the opposites of the Chaos Gods, Gods in the physical realm rather than the Warp, who essentially seek a galaxy of absolute order, where nothing will ever change for the rest of eternity. They are beings of anti-Chaos.

Interesting. I started reading the Lexicanum article on Tzeentch, and noticed all of the references to hopes and dreams and crushing them and whatnot. I do recall Nurgle being very compasisonate towards his followers, but I had no idea that the gods of chaos were both sides of the spectrum combined.

So the only way for a non-destructive (or gross, or mind-bending) entity of power to exist would have to be for it to not exist in the warp, but some other dimension.

McNinja wrote:Do the Chaos gods have any opposites? I suppose GW would love to keep the WH40K UNiverse as GRIMDARK as possible, but shouldn't positive emotions such as hope or compassion (who in the 40k universe would probably be weak, considering the entire Imperium of Man is built on being xeno-phobic hard-asses), create gods the same way things like rage/anger or pleasure did? And assuming they could exist, where would they be? A section of the warp? A different dimension altogether?

Because if they don't exist in GW lore, I'm making some up.

How non-biased of you?(sarcasm) Not everything is the Imperium's fault.

McNinja wrote:Interesting. I started reading the Lexicanum article on Tzeentch, and noticed all of the references to hopes and dreams and crushing them and whatnot. I do recall Nurgle being very compasisonate towards his followers, but I had no idea that the gods of chaos were both sides of the spectrum combined.

So the only way for a non-destructive entity of power to exist would have to be for it to not exist in the warp, but some other dimension.

Yes, the Chaos Gods are complex beings. Nurgle is despair and decay, but also endurance and defying despair, while also compassion (PAternal compassion, I guess). Slaanesh is excess and lust, but also love and perfection. Tzeentch is quite simply the hope for change, pure unrestricted change. Khorne embodies slaughter and rage, as well as martial honor and skill. But they are extremes in these things, and when not extreme are twisted. Nurgle loves life, and spreads his diseases to incite despair, because inspiration comes to humanity most in the darkest moments (Or something, I can't recall exactly what is said about it).

Well, in 40k the only deity that seems to be wholly good is Isha, one of the Eldar deities. The C'tan are horrible, Cegorach is too confusing to tell, Khaine's rage and bloodlust are second only to Khorne's, and Gork and Mork are a bit off to the side, despite their immense power they thankfully have no real ambition short of cheering on the Ladz when they go on a Waaagh!

Theoretically, it is possible for a more outwardly "benevolent" Warp deity to exist, though I would say even one that is not as destructive as the Chaos Gods would still be far-removed from mortal concerns, and completely alien and incomprehensible. Ideally, anyway.

Just my opinion on the subject.

Gork and Mork, anyone? Or what about the Eldar Gods?
Also, wtf is the Emperor doin' in the Warp nowadays?

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Gork and Mork, anyone? Or what about the Eldar Gods?
Also, wtf is the Emperor doin' in the Warp nowadays?

The racial Warp deities aren't really "opposites" per say, IMO.

The Emperor is at the moment holding back the worst of Chaos.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

McNinja wrote:Do the Chaos gods have any opposites? I suppose GW would love to keep the WH40K UNiverse as GRIMDARK as possible, but shouldn't positive emotions such as hope or compassion (who in the 40k universe would probably be weak, considering the entire Imperium of Man is built on being xeno-phobic hard-asses), create gods the same way things like rage/anger or pleasure did? And assuming they could exist, where would they be? A section of the warp? A different dimension altogether?

Because if they don't exist in GW lore, I'm making some up.

How non-biased of you?(sarcasm) Not everything is the Imperium's fault.

Yeah I realize that. I mean, the Eldar were responsible for the creation of Slaanesh

What I meant was that the Imperium represents a very vast part of the galaxy, and consists of trillions upon trillions of people, and those people all help with the whole "emotions and feelings making gods in the warp" thing, and that compassion is rare in 40k lore (as far as I know). Since compassion is such a rare occurrence, perhaps a god of compassion would be weakest. But since that is technically Nurgle, it doesn't really matter.

I guess a better question would be are there any non-malevolent gods in the Warp (that have any power)? I suppose Isha (Nurgles companion) would be a being of benevolent power, but her influence isn't all that great.

The only "compassion" Nurgle displays is towards the Nurglings and other plague-ridden, disease-bearing little gaks that he creates. The Great Unclean Ones are, basically, photocopies of Nurgle himself. They don't "care" about their followers, really, or their lesser daemons (considering the Great Unclean One will probably crush a dozen of them just shifting its bulk) but they like to show that Nurgle's love is all-encompassing and all-accepting... after all, everything rots.

Psienesis wrote:The only "compassion" Nurgle displays is towards the Nurglings and other plague-ridden, disease-bearing little gaks that he creates. The Great Unclean Ones are, basically, photocopies of Nurgle himself. They don't "care" about their followers, really, or their lesser daemons (considering the Great Unclean One will probably crush a dozen of them just shifting its bulk) but they like to show that Nurgle's love is all-encompassing and all-accepting... after all, everything rots.

What makes you say the Great Unclean Ones don't care about their followers or lesser daemons? It's entry in the Daemons codex states quite the opposite.

Basically they do embody positive emotions, but negative emotions tend to be stronger ones. that and Good+Evil always equals Evil, like adding an Even and an Odd number will always give you an Odd number.

The opposite of the big 4 are technically Pariahs.

Back in the day, in Warhammer - and at a time when that world and the Warhammer 40,000 universe were explicitly connected - there were in the background 'Gods of Law' equal and opposite to those of Chaos, called Alluminas, Arianka and Solkan. Like the Gods of Chaos, they borrowed heavily from concepts originated by Michael Moorcock. Possibly in an attempt to distance Games Workshop's universe from his, they have not been mentioned in many years.

The Gods of Chaos are represents man self destrutive (in this universe at least) psychology. Good things can come from those emotions, but most likely, they won't.

Weird how the Ork gods are not destructive to Orks as a species.

While the Chaos Gods can represent "positive" emotions, it's a twisted version of said emotions. Seriously, when's the last time Tzeentch ever gave positive hope to those who needed it or Nurgle loved those in a way that a rational person really wants it? Nurgle's "compassion" is infecting you with his diseases or turning you into a rotting monstorsity while Tzeentch's "hope" is more akin to corrupt ambition.

When's the last time a Daemonic incursion ever resulted in a world not turning into a hellhole anyway? Yeah, Nurgle sure loved those guys he turned into Plaguebearer zombies. While the Chaos Gods may not be Gods of "evil", even their "positive" emotions are twisted and they no doubt only bring evil upon the Galaxy.

The IoM revere The Emperor as a god. He is idol of worship across the empire. This is the only being I can really conceive of that is venerated as a purely good "god."

gpfunk wrote:The IoM revere The Emperor as a god. He is idol of worship across the empire. This is the only being I can really conceive of that is venerated as a purely good "god."

And what's about the remaining Eldar Gods - Khaine and Cegorach? Of course they represent not very positive emotions such as warrior's wrath or trickster's cunning but they're true gods who oppose Chaos.
And does Tau concept of Greater Good live in warp?

Farseer Petriel wrote:

gpfunk wrote:The IoM revere The Emperor as a god. He is idol of worship across the empire. This is the only being I can really conceive of that is venerated as a purely good "god."

And what's about the remaining Eldar Gods - Khaine and Cegorach? Of course they represent not very positive emotions such as warrior's wrath or trickster's cunning but they're true gods who oppose Chaos.
And does Tau concept of Greater Good live in warp?

No the Tau have little to no connection to the warp...

But the Eldar god thing is as close as you can get without saying (the chaos gods have a good side as well)

Harriticus wrote:While the Chaos Gods can represent "positive" emotions, it's a twisted version of said emotions. Seriously, when's the last time Tzeentch ever gave positive hope to those who needed it or Nurgle loved those in a way that a rational person really wants it? Nurgle's "compassion" is infecting you with his diseases or turning you into a rotting monstorsity while Tzeentch's "hope" is more akin to corrupt ambition.

When's the last time a Daemonic incursion ever resulted in a world not turning into a hellhole anyway? Yeah, Nurgle sure loved those guys he turned into Plaguebearer zombies. While the Chaos Gods may not be Gods of "evil", even their "positive" emotions are twisted and they no doubt only bring evil upon the Galaxy.

The Chaos gods are emotions taken beyond the extreme. Slaanesh loves you so much it would kill you and wear your skin so that you couldn't leave them. Their reflection of positive emotions are those of an insane person with no real understanding of people. How are mortals supposed to understand these beings anyway?

And the opposites of the Chaos gods are the Chaos gods. Nurgle is despair, compassion, fear and decay. Tzeentch is hope, manipulation and change. Khorne is anger, battle and single minded determination. Slaanesh is love, decadence and multitasking (can't think of a better word atm). That's why Nurgle and Tzeentch, and Slaanesh and Khorne can't work together.