Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

so, may you infiltraite then scout? for example, I take a squad of SM scouts. i place them 12" out of view, may i then make a 6" move twords them then assault them in the next turn?

Yes you may, however remember that you cannot move within 12" of the enemy while scouting, which means you are 12" .000001 inch away from them at all times.

faheykeyes wrote:so, may you infiltraite then scout? for example, I take a squad of SM scouts. i place them 12" out of view, may i then make a 6" move twords them then assault them in the next turn?

No you may not. Read the Scouts USR, and note that it takes place AFTER you Infiltrate.

You may infiltrate, then scout, then fire as if you didn't move... but you may not approach more than 12" from a target before the movement phase of turn 1.

However you can then take your normal move (6") and then assault 6" on turn 1... though some may argue that to make a 12" move after having to stay 12" away would require your target to have moved some distance towards you.

"Some people" would be exactly correct, as you must be MORE THAN 12" away.

Of course, if you have fleet, you can always run. If you're just over 12" even a roll of 1 for your run would be enough.

Indeed. But the point is that "more than" 12" really does mean "more than" 12"

nosferatu1001 wrote:Indeed. But the point is that "more than" 12" really does mean "more than" 12"

Of course, any model with an elliptical base would be able to rotate during the move in order to get in assault range. And, even the round bases aren't perfectly round. There's going to be some variation on the microscopic level. So, you could take advantage of that to get your first turn assault.

But, that would be very TFG-ish. It's more of a fun rule exploit than something you should try in a game.

Is there anything that has scout, infiltrate, AND fleet (I'm sure there is, just wondering what all qualifies)?

well besides Raven Guard Assault scouts... which I have used to great affect against imperial guard...

It was a challenge match (so I knew I'd be playing against IG), and I couldn't resist 4 squads of scouts assaulting on turn 1, I4

I'd imagine Rangers do, however you dont normaly want them in combat....

Rangers don't, they just have Infiltrate and Fleet, which is the closest I can find to the combination in all the books I have access to.

If you're managing an assault on turn 1 with Infiltrate+Scout with normal infantry moves without fleet, you've broken the rules. Yes, models aren't perfectly round and whatnot yaddayada, but any opponent would have a legitimate standing to disallow that assault on the grounds that you've moved farther than your move allows you to.

That said, such tactics are also highly dangerous even if you have Fleet, if an opponent is going first or seizes the initiative, especially something like IG with lots of hull mounted Heavy Flamers ignoring cover and 4+ armor and tons of rapid fire weapons, then your sneaky assault force is going to go bye-bye.

Avatar 720 wrote:Rangers don't, they just have Infiltrate and Fleet, which is the closest I can find to the combination in all the books I have access to.

Eldar Pathfinders have all three (and they ignore cover). So, you can always get a guaranteed first turn assault.


Of course, why you'd want to spend 24 points per 2 attacks (on the charge) with S3 T3 WS3 I4 5+ models is beyond me.

Vaktathi wrote:If you're managing an assault on turn 1 with Infiltrate+Scout with normal infantry moves without fleet, you've broken the rules. Yes, models aren't perfectly round and whatnot yaddayada, but any opponent would have a legitimate standing to disallow that assault on the grounds that you've moved farther than your move allows you to.

And yet no one complains when someone uses a vehicle to do the exact same thing. Ah well.

4th ed Broodlord retinue Genestealers with scuttler had all three, thopugh the lack of Fleet and scuttlers on the Broodlord prevented Fleet and scouts. Damn you Phil Kelly and Andy Chambers!

Vaktathi wrote:That said, such tactics are also highly dangerous even if you have Fleet, if an opponent is going first or seizes the initiative, especially something like IG with lots of hull mounted Heavy Flamers ignoring cover and 4+ armor and tons of rapid fire weapons, then your sneaky assault force is going to go bye-bye.

Well if you lose initiative you just deploy out of line of sight or go the outflank route... and seizing the initiative is a gamble I'll take. You'd be surprised how much damage 600 points of scouts can take (and the holes that rushing them would open for drop pods).

Seize occurs after Scout moves, meaning you would already be in position to assault.

Drop Pods arrive before your scouts can create any holes, unless youre using BT....

Removed due to having been stated already.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Seize occurs after Scout moves, meaning you would already be in position to assault.

Drop Pods arrive before your scouts can create any holes, unless youre using BT....

Right... so if I get seized, the enemy is going to have to move those flamers and rapid fire units to get to me (further out than 12", remember), so on my first turn (after the 600 points of scout "took damage") there either will be holes for pods, or they didn't flame/rapid fire me and I didn't take that much hurt anyway... kinda what I said last post

Ah right, was missing the context there - who was rushing who