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I've collected and half painted four armies already, and i've only been playing 40k for a couple of years.
My first armies, CSM and TAU, end up on the table more than my second two armies, Necron and GK, and I need ways to keep them interesting.
What I love doing is bucking the trends and trying to win with unorthodox lists, often leading to terrible losses, or wildly confusing wins.
The problem that I'm having is that the best formulas have already been hammered to death, so I want to try some things that are at least new to me.
.
90 percent of my games are against the same pool of Space Marines - salamanders, wolves, other GK... If I don't change up my lists frequently, things get dull fast.
Which leads to my list building questions - How do we feel about the following

1st up: CSM 1850 Something different

DP wings Lash (155)
4x5 PM 2xMelta/Pfist champ/rhino (800)
2x7 KB Pfist Champ (354)
2 Land Raider (440)
1 Greater Summoned Daemon (100)


2nd up: Tau Suit Spam 1850

Farsight w/2xDeathRain retinue (TL MPs with Flamers and HWMTs) (291)
Shas'el Fireknife SG SI, backed up by 2 FKs w/HwMTs (236)
3 x XV8 w/TLMP + Flamer (137) (Less 1 flamer for the points)
3 x XV8 w/TLFB + DC + 2x Gun Drones (189)
3 x XV8 w/TLBC + PR +MT (186) (Bladestorm, right?)
4x8 Fire Warriors in Devilfish w/DP + FD + MTs (720)
1 Broadside +SG, just for the hell of it (90)

Well the question isn't how WE feel, but it should be HOW you feel. After all it's your army, your money and you're playing with it

I can help on your CSM list. It's not a bad list, but needs tidying up in areas.

If you're going to take Princes then take them in pairs for saturation purposes. I know you've got a Greater Daemon but is the G.D coming on turn 2 or turn 4? Without the Daemon the Prince will be shot at. If you cannot run two Princes then ditch the single Prince altogether and get a Lash Sorcerer. Btw double Princes and G.D works nicely.

Then ditch the Champions from Plague Marines. You want to be in the tank as long as possible and paying about 70 points for a power fist is slowed.

Your single Land Raider is a big target and will be blown up very quickly. I would drop it altogether. I also notice that only one of those Berzerker units will be using the Land Raider, where will the other one be going?

He has two land raiders in the CSM list, not one. Other than that... What mercer said.

If your ADD is hurting enough to go for a new army
Try making a purely shooty Nyds list.

Its fairly non standard and really hard to use if you dont have any CC focussed units.

Shooty Tyrants/Tyranid Primes
Zoans and Hive guards
Shooty Warrior squads
Termagaunts with Devourers
DAKA DAKA Carnifexes.

Nyds can actually shoot and shoot well with clever use of cover.

iBambam wrote:He has two land raiders in the CSM list, not one. Other than that... What mercer said.

Well feth me dirty, I swear it said 1

Alright, so CSM -

DP wings Lash (155)
DP wings Lash (155)
4x5 PM 2xMelta/rhino (680)
1x6 KB PF Champ (156)
1x6 KB PF Changs (156)
2 Land Raider (440)
1 Greater Summoned Daemon (100)

It feels like a gentle list without obliterators, like I'm just taking it easy...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shooty Nids? That sounds like a good challenge...Here's my take on that.

1850: Nids Dropping Plates...

HQ - Tervigon x 2, modest upgrades 390
Troops - 3x11 Termagants w/strangleweb 195
3 More Tervigons 585
3 mycetic spores w/ Venom Cannons 180

Elites - 2x3 Zoanthropes 360
Doom of Malan'tai 90
3 mycetic spores w/ venom cannon 180

Heavy - Carnifex with Deathspitter + H. Venom Cannon (200)
1 Mycetic spore w/ venom cannon 60

Here's a thought - try Warhammer Fantasy Battle...?!

junk wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shooty Nids? That sounds like a good challenge...Here's my take on that.

1850: Nids Dropping Plates...

HQ - Tervigon x 2, modest upgrades 390
Troops - 3x11 Termagants w/strangleweb 195
3 More Tervigons 585
3 mycetic spores w/ Venom Cannons 180

Elites - 2x3 Zoanthropes 360
Doom of Malan'tai 90
3 mycetic spores w/ venom cannon 180

Heavy - Carnifex with Deathspitter + H. Venom Cannon (200)
1 Mycetic spore w/ venom cannon 60

Wow thats potentially alot heck of alot of basic gaunts!

Almost I tihnk almost universally IMO Double Twin linked Devourers with brainleech worms are superior to any other Shooting Fex.
12 Str 6 shots with re-rollable Hits And -1 to the Ld of the squad they hurt when they make thier moral check (might be -2 i dont know if multiple Devs cause multiple penalties).

If your hard on for plates however, Stranglethorn Cannons blow Venom cannons out of the water. I hate venom cannons, because despite thier awesome str, they can only glance targets. At least with Brainleech devouers or Stranglethorn Cannon your Str 6 shots have the ability to penetrate 11 or lower armour (hello rhinos!)

Or a completely different game?Brushfire is pretty awesome! I'm patiently waiting for Scyzantines to get their releases, but the existing model lines are beautiful and the game has great strategic and tactical ranges for each army.

Or you could try foot-slogging eldar. It's a rare art that requires precision and a Bobby Fischer-like understanding of 40K.

Easy enough to swap out the HVC for a pair of TL Devourers; there are more than enough markers on the field already, any other tweaks?

Foot slogging eldar, huh? What are the limitations on that style? Can I still use Jetbike HQs, or is it pure Foot?

Ideally if I'm really going to start a fifth army, it's one that's different enough from my existing armies to be an interesting change of pace. Both Eldar and Tyranid are appealing in that regard.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gavin, What's so great about Brushfire? Sell it, man, convince me.

junk wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shooty Nids? That sounds like a good challenge...Here's my take on that.

1850: Nids Dropping Plates...

HQ - Tervigon x 2, modest upgrades 390
Troops - 3x11 Termagants w/strangleweb 195
3 More Tervigons 585
3 mycetic spores w/ Venom Cannons 180

Elites - 2x3 Zoanthropes 360
Doom of Malan'tai 90
3 mycetic spores w/ venom cannon 180

Heavy - Carnifex with Deathspitter + H. Venom Cannon (200)
1 Mycetic spore w/ venom cannon 60

That's not a good shooting list.

Strangleweb is crap and not worth the points. You want shooting Termagants dropping in then you give them devourers which will fire 33 shots when deep striking - now that's shooting.

Carnifex is a terrible setup. Why would anyone take deathspitters when devourers are always better?

A shooty Nids list:

Try this as a base for starters:

HQ Hive tyrant with dual TL devourers
ELITE 3 * 3 hive guard
TROOP 20 gants with devourers in spore * 2
HS 3 dakka fexes - 2 TL devourers each.

That's 18 S8, 48 S6, 120 S3 shots a turn. Only issue for Nids is the range as you need to be in that 18-24" range ASAP. Anything with range greater than 24" in the Nid dex is generally crap ...

1850: Nids Dropping Plates... Updated to respect suggestions from Mercer and Karnac; had to lose 1 spore, which makes me sad.

Tervigon x 5, Usual upgrades (195 each)
Troops - 3x10 Termagants w/Devourers
2x3 Zoanthropes
Doom of Malan'tai
Carnifex with Double BL Devourers.
6 mycetic spores w/ Venom Cannons

Ruminator, I'll take a run at that next.

Hey junk,

Brushfire is a easy to learn, fast paced, wargame in which both strategy and tactics have a determining factor on who is the victor. The game's three-resource point buy for army selection and the variety of factions means that no two armies are identical. Independant from and inextricably linked to army selection is choosing your army hero or heroes, several of which are available for each faction and each of which has three skill trees to select from. Your hero can be a powerhouse in battle, a synergistic tactician that buffs his units, or a cunning merchant-baron twisting the resource system to the army's advantage. There are also "special characters" available for each faction, representing personalities in the world of Brushfire, that have their own unique powers and interactions with specific units.

The game uses a you-go, I-go activation mechanic that is broken down model-by-model or unit-by-unit. If you've got 5 archers, you could have 2 activate, then after your opponent reacts you can activate the remaining 3. Activating in units makes game-play a little smoother, but it's fully possible to take things one model at a time. Putting it in 40k terms, it's sort of like being able to switch between Kill Team style play and "regular" 40k depending on what's most effective for you.

Brushfire is set in a skewed-mirror world of anthropomorphic animals representing various cultures and time periods. Dogs of war clash with hyaenas on the savannah, tortoises with seige engines battle against the mice of the city-states, and barbarian hamsters led by villanous rats leave the frozen forests of their motherland to wage war against fox ninjas and otter ashigaru. Each faction is fully defined and explored within the fictional history (hence the subtitle, Historia Rodentia) and forthcoming expansions and web-releases further immerse the player into it's complex and often playful interpretations of our own world.

There's also different styles of play that allow for great variety from game to game. Since Brushfire scales up and down easily, the game is viable whether your skirmishing with a handful of models or waging a war of armies. If you like the idea of the results of each battle affecting the outcome of the next, there's campaign style play. Playing warbands-style allows you to build a small group of character-laden individuals from humble beginnings to powerful warriors. Finally use that Hirst Arts castle or tower you've been using as terrain as an actual set-piece using the seige rules, driving off the forces of invaders or penetrating the stronghold of your hated rival.

The folks at On the Lamb Games are very interactive with their customer base and you can rest assured that your voice will be heard. Cyporiean is our resident representative and updates the News and Rumors forum regularly with upcoming models, events, and promotions. Check out their website, http://www.on-the-lamb.com/, visit the gallery, and join the forum. They've got event listings, always run demos at the cons they attend, and can put you in touch with other Brushfire players in your area.

Sold yet?

I have 5 armies, so I know how you feel about 'mixing things up'. I run Chaos, Marine, IG, Eldar, and Ork. Since I have been playing awhile, I have fewer vehicles, so most of my stuff is foot or doesn't exsist in the 40k universe anymore (marine jetbikes, Eldar Tempest Tank, Squats to name a few). Ahh... the joys of lead terminators on small bases.

For your Chaos list, I would not have Champs with fists when I have to sac them. I would just ditch the GD. You have no real template weapons, so I see Lash as kinda wasted... all your using it for is just setting up troops for assault. That is cool and all, but softening them up with marker weapons (or being able to pop transports to lash the sweet candy inside) from Oblits seems like the better path.

If you want to switch things up, do random chaos. Take Dreads, Possessed, Khorne demon weapons, ect and hold onto your seat. You can even pray to the Chaos gods and use non-fearless troops in numbers and in traditional marine roles without MoCG... like a 5 man assault terminator squad or a 'Devistator' squad and 'Jump Assault' squad. I am sure your friends will enjoy not dealing with lash at least and any wins you do pull off might be spectatular. I think a 2 dread chaos list won Adepticon last year, so those lists can win.

Foot Eldar can be pretty brutal if done right. If you /really/ want to do it right, you do 2x 10 man Wraithguard and 3 WraithLords with a Avatar. Me... I run storm Guardians, 3 Lords, Avatar, generic Farseer and Harliquinns. Most folk consider bikes as a legit option to foot-dar, but bikes tend to move to fast to stay with the Avatar. Pie plates and mobile armies are your main challenege with this list.

Gavin - Checked out brushfire, looks really light and fun, I sent the link on to a couple of my east coast regulars who are also looking for a change, so hopefully they'll bite and we'll have something to do while we're waiting for the big games to end instead of kill team or poker...

BikTom -

My normal CSM list starts with 6-9 obliterators, a beefy assault HQ, and then fills in troops until I run out of points. Sometimes a small squad of terminators in a landraider make it in, sometimes two of them, depending on the points.

The double lash prince up top was indeed just to yank crap into KB assault range, or better into the daemon's own reach. With all the MSU out there, a DP can eat an entire unit every time you activate it.

I was looking at wraiths, I think I would like to play Footdar, I'd just definitely want to get fortune up on those guys. Also, I really like the look of those pathfinder/rangers.