Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, so I have a question that needs fleshing out...

A SM Librarian can take the power "the gate of infinity". If he is squadded up with some terminators in their dedicated Landraider Transport... can he use this power to cause the Landraider to "deepstrike" 24 inches from where it currently is?

Second question, if this can indeed happen, will the models be able to disembark and assault? Deepstrike rules state that you cannot assault, but the LR is an assault vehicle... allows you to disembark & assault after moving.... so which takes precidence?

About the last bit, Codex rules take precidence over Rulebook rules, so I would guess that you could assault.

Not sure about the rest though...

This question was actually asked last week IIRC

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/402760.page

No you may not assault after deepstriking.

RaptorsTallon wrote:About the last bit, Codex rules take precidence over Rulebook rules, so I would guess that you could assault.

Not sure about the rest though...

Actually no, as it is specific > general. And you dont have a specific rule allowing you to assault after deepstriking, just an unrelated rule about assaulting from a moving vehicle

No, you cannot take the LR with you. It isnt your unit, and never can be

Codex over rulebook is not true. Its specific over general, where usually the codex is more specific. However in this case, it has nothing to do with codex vs BRB. Assault vehicle means you can assault after the vehicle moved. You can never assault after deep strike unless you have a special rule like VVs. Deep strike is a form of deployment (or redeployment in this case), not movement, and so the assault vehicle rule has no bearing on it.

Edit: ninja'd. Also as a point of interest, GK can do something like this with the summoning power and a warp stabilization field on the LR, and BA LRs can always deep strike. Again, you can never assault out of them though.

Actually DS is movement - see the line about not being able to move any further

nosferatu1001 wrote:Actually DS is movement - see the line about not being able to move any further

But it still disallows assaulting, even if the vehicle is an Assault vehicle. All Land Raiders do is let you assault after disembarking, just as Fleet lets you assault after running. If it doesn't say you can assault after deepstriking you can't.

I never said that. See the post i made previously. I was correcting a misnomer that DS is "deployment" and not movement.

Oh, ofc. Was too busy looking up the Land Raider. ;-)

I belive the FAQ clarified that the squad inside is removed and deep strikes within 24"

the Librarian is not part of the Landraider's squad and as such the LR can't teliport.

Try DS Drop Pods, they can't be assaulted out of.

Drop pods have a special rule disallowing asualting after deepstrike as does the blood angel landraider. The ultrmarine codex has no such restriction on landraiders. But you cannot deepstrike it so it does not matter.

kight wrote:Drop pods have a special rule disallowing asualting after deepstrike as does the blood angel landraider.

And both of those rules are just there for redundancy, since it's also disallowed by the Deep Strike rules.

...and both are irrelevant, and examples of redundant rules writing. If you arrive in a deepstriking vehicle, and disembark in the same turn, you also count as deepstriking. This in itself disallows deepstriking.

If it helps, stormravens have the assault ramp as well, and you can't assault out of them on the turn they DS...

I like to think most of the confusion is because the rule is called Drop Pod Assault, and yet it does not allow things coming from a Drop Pod to Assault.

Maybe that's just me though.

Just checked the FAQ on the GW website for the Space Marine codex, only Psyhic powers I can find it mentioning anything about are Quickening and Vortex of Doom. I would think that a discussion with your local group would be the best answer to this issue but I would go with the side of you can use this power to affect a transport that you are embarked in. Allow me to present my evidence why.

Vortex of Doom is in the Questions section of the GW FAQ, and it asks, what happens when the Librarian fails with Vortex of Doom while embarked. the answer is that the template is centered on the vehicle and the vehicle will take a hit against it's rear armor value. Instead of being centered on the Librarian. With a ruling like that I believe that as the Librarian is in the transport the power would affect the transport itself as well as anything embarked within it.

GoI targets the unit the Lib is attached to. The LR is not part of the unit the Lib is attached to.

VoD is different in so many ways they're impossible to compare. Except they're both psychic powers.

The vortex template is placed on the transport instead of the librarian because the librarian isn't on the board.


Gate allows the Librarian to hop with the unit he is joined to. It has no effect on the transport vehicle because the transport vehicle is a separate unit. It's not an area effect like the vortex... it affects a specific unit only.

The problem I have with your reasoning why Gate is supposed to be different then Vortex from how I understand your post is because the Librarian in the transport for Vortex isn't on the table. Yet for Gate the Librarian must be removed from the table to be used yet as you stated he is not on the table being inside a transport.

Saiisil wrote:The problem I have with your reasoning why Gate is supposed to be different then Vortex from how I understand your post is because the Librarian in the transport for Vortex isn't on the table. Yet for Gate the Librarian must be removed from the table to be used yet as you stated he is not on the table being inside a transport.

That wasn't the entire reasoning.

Vortex is an area effect power. You place the marker, and it hits anything under it. When the librarian is in a vehicle you place the marker over the vehicle because the LIbrarian is in the vehicle. It affects the vehicle because it affects anything under the marker.

Gate is not an area effect power. It affects a specific unit (the Librarian and a unit he is with). When the librarian is in a vehicle, he is not joined to the vehicle. They are still two separate units. So it doesn't affect the vehicle because it only affects the Librarian's unit.

Yet then arises the issue that the Librarian + Unit he is attached to can not fulfill the requirement that they need to be removed from the table in order to be replaced in a different location. How do we solve this issue?

Saiisil wrote:Yet then arises the issue that the Librarian + Unit he is attached to can not fulfill the requirement that they need to be removed from the table in order to be replaced in a different location. How do we solve this issue?

They're destroyed, I guess.

Or you can simply do as the Orks do if a Weirdboy does 'Ere We Go! in a transport - he and the unit go away, the transport remains.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490295a_Orks_Version_1_1.pdf

Saiisil wrote:Yet then arises the issue that the Librarian + Unit he is attached to can not fulfill the requirement that they need to be removed from the table in order to be replaced in a different location. How do we solve this issue?

There was a long thread about that recently. A search should pick it up. Or you could compare GoI to 'Ere We Go! and realize that the unit leaves the transport behind.

I can not see using the same ruling used for 'Ere We Go! with Gate because of the wording used, Gate specifically says you remove the models from the Table where 'Ere We Go! you place the unit anywhere on the table that is the difference I see here and I can not in good conscience use the same ruling for both especially considering the RAW of the two powers.

I see two answers to the issue regarding a Librarian inside a transport using gate 1) can not use Gate or 2) takes the transport with him.

Saiisil wrote:Yet then arises the issue that the Librarian + Unit he is attached to can not fulfill the requirement that they need to be removed from the table in order to be replaced in a different location. How do we solve this issue?

The rulebook FAQ clarifies that psychic powers that target the librarian himself can be used while he is in a transport. Assuming he is leaving the transport serves the same purpose as physically removing the model from the table.

Yes the FAQ states that a Psychic Power that targets the Librarian may be used while within a transport but according to the argument you yourself provided as to what we should treat Gate and Vortex differently, Gate can not take effect while the Librarian is embarked on the transport because the Librarian is not on the table and Gate is used to remove the Librarian from the table as part of it's effect. Also note that a failed Vortex affects the Librarian yet when embarked it affects the transport.

Saiisil wrote:Yes the FAQ states that a Psychic Power that targets the Librarian may be used while within a transport but according to the argument you yourself provided as to what we should treat Gate and Vortex differently, Gate can not take effect while the Librarian is embarked on the transport because the Librarian is not on the table and Gate is used to remove the Librarian from the table as part of it's effect.

Restating your point won't change my answer.

Also note that a failed Vortex affects the Librarian yet when embarked it affects the transport.

Yes, and I explained why a couple of posts ago.

I restate my point because my point hasn't been addressed. Your explanation wasn't satisfactory in any way to me and did not address anything in regards to what I am saying as far as I am concerned.

That's fine. Feel free to try to disallow an opponent using Gate from within a transport. Let us know how that goes for you.