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Off to Powerfist Gaming last night, played against PJ who runs http://www.initiative1podcast.blogspot.com/, which I might have I also am now part of . Tonight we are testing Battle Sisters and will be discussing them on the upcoming Podcast. So it's a fair game I'll be helping PJ with tactics and we will be working together on the rules.

I decided to bring Dark Eldar tonight, though I did bring Tyranids. I decided to use Dark Eldar as I think they will be a more fairer match up for the Battle Sisters with all the long range anti infantry fire power and also anti tank they have. Plus Sisters shouldn't struggle popping the D.E armour as +2 on the damage table thanks to pesky melta and my skimmers are open topped.

Dark Eldar "Coven of a 1000 corpses" - 2,000 points


HQ

Haemonculus

Elite

3 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 3 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon
3 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 3 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon
3 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 3 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon

Troops

5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon

Fast Attack

5 x Scourges - 2 x dark lances
5 x Scourges - 2 x dark lances
5 x Scourges - 2 x dark lances

Heavy Support

Ravager - flickerfield
Ravager - flickerfield
Ravager - flickerfield

Total: 2,003


Battle Sisters - 2,000 points

HQ

Jaccubus
Priest
5 x Deathcult w/ Rhino
5 x Deathcult w/ Rhino

Elite

Celestian Squad w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns

Troops

Battle Sisters w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns
Battle Sisters w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns

Battle Sisters w/ Rhino - 2 x flamers
Battle Sisters w/ Rhino - 2 x flamers

Fast Attack

Dominion Squad w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns
Dominion Squad w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns
Dominion Squad w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns

Heavy Support

Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

Total: 2,000


Game: Annihilation + Pitched Battle

Deployment

I won the roll off and deployed first. I placed two units of Scourges together in a ruin on the left flank and a single unit in a ruin on the right flank. In the centre I deployed my fleet of Venoms with a single Ravager one side on the left and two on the right, this would balance the ranged anti tank out on either flank.

After discussing with PJ we agreed it was probably best for him to castle up top left corner as this would mean that the unit of Scourges on the right flank would be out of range and the two supporting Ravagers would have to spent a turn moving flat out if they wanted to get into range of those Exorcists.

So PJ deploy shis Exorcists top left behind some ruins, he castles up the rest of his Rhinos a bit away from the Exorcist formation.







* Tactical Notes

Ok my first targets are the Exorcists, if I take these out that's PJ's long range fire done for. On the left flank I've got enough fire power for each Exorcist, though the right flank I'll have to move and probably just use them against the Rhinos.

Venoms I will flank around the centre ruin and avoid the melta, the flamer units are on the right of the castle and I will head towards that way so they don't have much tank popping melta in range.

Turn 1

PJ attempts to seize the initiative and passes! He takes first turn now.

I discuss with PJ the best option, which is for him to perhaps move forward 6" and pop smoke on all Rhinos. This will keep him out of range, but will make me move up to get my blasters into range which means he can move his melta units up 6" next turn and blast my Venoms, not like he has to be in 2D6 range anyway. So PJ moves up his Rhinos 6". He also rolls for faith points and get 3, he re-rolls thanks to Jacobus and gets 4.

Shooting he pops smoke on all Rhinos. Exorcists fire, one smashes the Ravager on the left flank and it's toast, another gets a Venom next to the Ravager and that explodes - all Warriors are safe but fail pinning :( . The other Exorcists tries to blast one of the Venoms on the right flank but it's out of range.

My turn I move my Venoms 6" up towards the ruin hoping that I can blast some oncoming Rhinos and maybe the odd one or two on the left flank. Both surviving Ravagers move up the right flank to long range some Rhinos with dark matter.

Shooting Scourges blast a Exorcist and score weapon destroyed, that will do nicely. Other Scourges blast another Exorcist, it gets cover, which PJ fails and it's stunned. Couple of blasters fire at the closest Rhino on the left flank, after smoke saves it's immobilised and stunned. Dark matter weapons fire out towards the oncoming Rhinos near the ruin, one is wrecked (Sisters pass pinning) and the two Rhinos carrying flamers are shaken and stunned, looks like PJ cannot make smoke saves tonight and I cannot pop tanks. Venoms then blast the exposed melta Battle Sisters but my Venoms aren't on par tonight and two members of the squad survives after ALL eight Venoms fire at them, Sisters pass morale.

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 1 Battle Sisters: 2





* Tactical Notes

Ok not a bad first turn for both of us. I've lost a Venom and Ravager which are acceptable losses. Damage wise I've taken out a Rhino, seriously mauled a melta unit, immobilised a Rhino, stopped two Rhinos from firing and stopped two Exorcists from firing - one full time.

My plan is to move up across the right flank and blast the flamer Rhinos to pieces and then torrent them with Venom fire, though first I will torrent the two Battle Sisters in the open with Venoms first as they are a easy kill point. Lances on the left flank will continue to blast the Exorcists, any spare shots will go into melta Rhinos.

Turn 2

I suggest to PJ that two of his melta nuns break cover in their Rhinos and speed 12" down towards my Scourges, they can bail out and unleash bolter hell on them. Then move the weaponess Exorcist into the ruin on the left flank for cover. Then keep his remaining Rhinos put and let me come to him, he may have to bend over and take some blaster shots, but he will be in range with meltas if he moves out next turn. So PJ does what I suggest. I think he gets 5 faith points this turn btw.

Shooting the operational Exorcist nails a Ravager and it's dusted. The two Battle Sisters in the open blast a Venom, but I get cover thanks to the ruin and pass. A Celestian Squad and Sister Squad with meltas torrent the two Scourge units on the left flank with a hail of melta and bolters, both Scourges lose two dudes and both units pass morale.

My turn, I split force (maybe foolishly) with three Venoms moving over to support the Scourges as the previously pinned Warriors move out of the crater. Remaining Venoms and single Ravager move around the ruin to engage flamer Rhinos.

Shooting, I blast the Battle Sisters exposed by the Scourges with three Warrior squads, two Scourges and four Venoms, thanks to my combo of bad luck and PJ's saves half of them remain and pass morale. The two Battle Sisters on foot are blasted by a Venom and die. I then blast all dark matter weapons I can into the two flamer Rhinos, I think they are both shaken or stunned again, I did wreck one by PJ made the 6+ invulnerable save on it, damn.

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 2 Battle Sisters: 3





* Tactical Notes

Well I'm annoyed that it took 13 dark matter weapons to just stun and shake two Rhinos. I am even more further annoyed that it took 2 Scourges, 3 Warrior squads and 4 Venoms to maul a Battle Sister unit. I seriously need to get new dice! I was hoping at least to kill those Battle Sisters and maybe blast a Rhino with them and also pop at least one maybe even both of those flamer Rhinos.

My plan next turn is to carry on dealing with these Sisters by the Scourges and also blasting the flamer Rhinos.

Turn 3

PJ's turn, I suggest to hold his meltas back unless he wants to plough them through the centre ruin and bail them all out. I also suggest he move the two Rhinos about on the left flank to blast the Warriors on foot along with support from the remaining Battle Sisters, then the Celestian Squad can use their faith point and furious charge the Scourges. PJ doesn't move his Rhinos but does what I suggest on the left flank. I think he gets 4 faith points this turn.

Shooting, PJ uses a faith point for the Battle Sisters by the Scourges and they pass, they nail the Warriors with storm bolter support from the Rhinos and the Warriors on foot are dead meat. He uses bolt pistols from the Celestian Squad on a unit of Scourges, two die thanks to pistols but pass morale. Exorcists rain down and I lose a Venom carrying a unit of Trueborn, they get pinned, they then get shot by storm bolters and one dies thanks to cover saves, I pass morale though.

In assault Celestians attempt to use a faith point but fail, they multi charge both Scourge units which I lose combat by one wound - the single Scourge dies giving up a kill point and the other unit fails morale and legs it.

My turn, I move the Venoms about on the left flank so the Celestians and the Battle Sisters aren't in melta range unless they decide to move, I also bring two Venoms away from the ruin towards the left so I can blast the Rhinos near the other Venoms, one of those Venoms is carrying Trueborn with the Haemonculus. Remaining two Venoms and Ravager move up around the ruin to blast more enemy armour. Scourges falling back fail morale test and flee off the table.

Shooting blasters fire at one of the empty Rhinos and it's wrecked, Battle Sisters on foot get mauled by Venoms, splinter rifles and blasters and they go down. Celestians take remaining Venom shots but they are all annoyingly ok. I fire lances from the Scourges and blasters at the two flamer Rhinos, one is stunned the other is shaken. Ravager blasts a Exoricst, it gets cover and fails and is shaken - story of my game!

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 4 Battle Sisters: 7







* Tactical Notes

Ok it's not going good, Battle Sisters have taken a nice lead thanks to my Scourges getting beat up in a fight by some girls and then running off the board; wimps. Also with those Scourges gone that's my ranged anti tank on the left flank now disappeared.

Next turn I am hoping to kill that Celestian squad and their Rhino while this time I can hopefully take out some flamer Rhinos!

Turn 4

Not much movement for PJ, I think he keeps everything where it is. Not sure how many faith points he gets either.

Shooting his storm bolters torrent a Venom and it explodes, to add salt to my wounds the entire squad is wounded from the blast and all of them fail armour saves - that will be two kill points for Sisters there then! Remaining storm bolters fire at Venoms by the flamer Rhinos in hope to repeat what happened else where on the board, but they fail. Ravager gets shot by Exorcists and it's immobilised - luckily I have LOS so it's not that bad.

Not a lot of movement for me so straight onto shooting!

Trueborn and several blasters from Warriors fire at a empty Rhino on the left flank but best I can do is immobilise and weapon destroy it. I do manage to blow up the Celestian's Rhino and wipe them out with splinter cannons. Other side of the board I manage to stun a Exorcist with the Ravager is I remember right.

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 6 Battle Sisters: 9





* Tactical Notes

Ok PJ has kept the lead with a unfortunate incident of a Warrior squad all dying to a exploding Venom. I think he's got himself a nice lead now and the only way I can catch up is if I actually start blowing up tanks instead of stunning them and then kill infantry.

Turn 5

I suggest to PJ to move two Rhinos down the left flank and bail out the Battle Sisters so they can unleash melta on my Venoms. He does this and repeats by the ruin with a melta unit and two flamer units. I think he gets 4 faith points this turn.

Shooting he uses the two faith points without problems on the Battle Sisters on the left flank but fails on all the others. On the left flank two Venoms are toasted by melta, one carries Trueborn and the Haemonculus, which all Trueborn die in the explosion and the Haemonculus takes a wound. Up top the Ravager makes the flickerfield save, but two Venoms are smashed by Exoricsts while one Warrior squad is hosed down by bolters and flamers.

My turn is pretty swift. Ravager tries to fire at a Exorcist again but does nothing. Squads on the left flank blast the two exposed Sisters units, both units have three girls left, one fails morale and falls back 3" the other passes. I attempt to assault the falling back unit with my Haemonculus, my Haemy is in terrain and needs 2" to assault them - roll 3 1's - WTF!?

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 6 Battle Sisters: 15

At this point I conceed as I'm not going to do a huge amount to PJ next turn.





Summary

Wow, that went bad, really bad. I expected PJ to blow my skimmers up easily with all the melta but what I didn't expect was my dice to utterly fail on me. I think worst was it took three Warrior Squads, two Scourge units and four Venoms to kill 10 Battle Sisters, that's a total of 5 dark matter shots and 78 poison shots! Add in that all I could do all game was shake and stun tanks which means I couldn't use my splinter cannons no the infantry and in the end allowed PJ to counter move me and roll up and just trash my force.

Mistake I made was getting mixed up on what's inside a Venom. Once I fired one blaster when it should have been three because there was a unit of Trueborn inside that Venom. Secondly I don't think I should have split up my force. I should have moved everything down towards the left flank and blasted the melta units through the ruin. I thought that the flamer Rhinos would be easy prey and if the troops inside were exposed they couldn't hurt me, but looking back I should have gone for the meltas in the first place and kept the ruin between me and PJ.

PJ played well for his first time using Sisters. He did mention to me at the end of the game he wouldn't have held back and would have come straight at me, this probably would have been a aggressive move and a gamble if it would pay off as it would put the bulk of his army straight into my dark matter range straight away.

A note on Sisters

I don't think Sisters are as bad as everyone makes out. Sure they are a little over priced and the faith points needs to be better (on leadership) as at the moment you don't get to use much of the faith points. Army power wise I'd say it's about the same as Space Marines, if not just below. Actually in between Chaos Space Marines and Space Marines. I will be doing a full review soon so don't forget to check back on www.imperiusdominatus.com

My favorite part of this batrep? Your location is across the pond, and your mate is wearing a Jack Daniels shirt!

Tennessee Represent!

Tough game man, I probably would have just takin my lumps from the exorcists and concentrated fire on Rhinos for a while. Of course when I win the roll for first turn I always defer so I can react to my opponents placement, so it would have been a different game for me.

he's mad for it.

It might have been better to perhaps fire at the Rhinos for a bit instead with all my dark lances. I do like going second sometimes, but D.E need to go first, plus I was giving PJ a lot of advice in this game.

Nah, DE don't need to go first, they just need to alphastrike, if you can stay out of your opponents range and then move up to alphastrike you accomplish the same thing and get to know where they place their stuff. Night shields help with this.

And when you defer first turn, it gives you the option to reserve if you need to. Trust me, you will beat IG and SW 80% more often by defering first turn and staying out of their threat ranges.

Nice battle report again Mercer. Be glad you didn,t face St Celestian. Shes a real b...s to get rid of. At least if your opponent is going second. Always reborning to your objective. And Shes I7 with "agoniser".

I've noticed that your DE and BA armies are very similar. Small melta squads in fast transports with maxed out backup fire support. Nothing bad in that, but just funnie though since both of these codexies has so many different and effective army builds.

mercer wrote: he's mad for it.

It might have been better to perhaps fire at the Rhinos for a bit instead with all my dark lances. I do like going second sometimes, but D.E need to go first, plus I was giving PJ a lot of advice in this game.

Issue with lances is... well, they're unforgiving. You don't get the +1 to pen, and if you miss... well, it sucks, because normally your banking on these lances doing this, or these doing that. The other crappy part is shaken results are great; if you were running beastpacks or a unit or two of wyches.

That being said, well played. Giving advice to your opponent actually makes it harder on yo, for sure, but your best opponent to face is yourself as you know what your going to do where

wileythenord wrote:Nah, DE don't need to go first, they just need to alphastrike, if you can stay out of your opponents range and then move up to alphastrike you accomplish the same thing and get to know where they place their stuff. Night shields help with this.

And when you defer first turn, it gives you the option to reserve if you need to. Trust me, you will beat IG and SW 80% more often by defering first turn and staying out of their threat ranges.

Well I can't alpha strike if I don't go first, alpha strike is when you cripple a enemies force before they have time to react. Night shields will only help with what you suggested for one turn.

Reserving my force isn't a good idea. It will let me come in piecemeal making my army easier to deal with.

Going second against Guard and Wolves isn't good. They have 48" range and beyond and can easily cripple some vehicles before you start. You never let mech Guard go first.

Vasara wrote:Nice battle report again Mercer. Be glad you didn,t face St Celestian. Shes a real b...s to get rid of. At least if your opponent is going second. Always reborning to your objective. And Shes I7 with "agoniser".

I've noticed that your DE and BA armies are very similar. Small melta squads in fast transports with maxed out backup fire support. Nothing bad in that, but just funnie though since both of these codexies has so many different and effective army builds.

Thanks man.

I guess my Angels and Dark Eldar are. I guess it's just because I like to swamp the opponent with so much stuff and that's why I like MSU for one reason.

Zid wrote:

mercer wrote: he's mad for it.

It might have been better to perhaps fire at the Rhinos for a bit instead with all my dark lances. I do like going second sometimes, but D.E need to go first, plus I was giving PJ a lot of advice in this game.

Issue with lances is... well, they're unforgiving. You don't get the +1 to pen, and if you miss... well, it sucks, because normally your banking on these lances doing this, or these doing that. The other crappy part is shaken results are great; if you were running beastpacks or a unit or two of wyches.

That being said, well played. Giving advice to your opponent actually makes it harder on yo, for sure, but your best opponent to face is yourself as you know what your going to do where

That's the thing about lances they are just AP2 missile launchers so not that awesome.

And you're right about advice, I was even telling PJ where I was gonna move next

nice batrep... Look forward to seeing the sisters when everything is painted in and modeled. The Dark Eldar look sweet.. Cheers

I know what alphastrike means sir, you can alpha strike even when not going first. You just have to deploy in such a way that the enemy can't cripple you the first turn. Its simple math, 48" wide board, enemies deploy 36-48" away from your board edge, NS reduce by 6", now use the Pythagorean theorem to determine where you can deploy and not be shot, keeping in mind your targets. I do it all the time. Once I figured this out I started letting SW go first every time.

When you have as many units as Dark Eldar have, you absolutely can reserve, you are statistically going to get half of your army in on the second turn.

Most stuff in IG you care about is only 36"(chimeras), if they are rocking hydras then that is your alphastrike target. Chimeras have to be within 30" (NS) so you can easily avoid them to concentrate on vendettas and hydras. IG blob armies are the toughest nut for DE to crack.

As for wolves, going second ensures that they spread their long fangs out across the table because they think they need to cover the whole table. That allows you to bring your whole crew to bare on one part of their force, venoms kill long fangs easily. After your destroy one squad of fangs then you can just move down the line, staying back farther than 42" away (NS) and wearing them out one unit at a time, poor puppies just cry.

But we all have our playstyles, I love reading how others play!

Very cool Batrep. Both armies look cool but the DE are absolutely stunning.

Gameplay-wise, yeah it was a bit harsh. Between flamers and meltas, he definitely didn't leave you much room for defense. Having the Initiative lost was harsh, yes, and you should have waited until his line was more broken and static before splitting your army. As it was, it still had enough threat to wail on one of the halves efficiently.

Thanks for the pics and report!

It is always nice to give advice (and not bad advice ha ha) I assume you were coaching him because he isn't a solid general and didn't want a walk in the park? His army is lovely though, I adore the converted tanks and the teal scheme!

I see your stuff is getting a bit more paint as well ; )

I think every game I see you play is Kill Points by the way! I hate kill points personally, your army suffers immensely from this I am afraid... I would hate to see you face those pesky draigo wing builds as they are stupid with wound allocation, at 'Ard Boys I saw DE fire at lest 80 poison shots into a 5 man pali combat squad and not a single one died!!! So ridiculous, but I guess I am ranting ha ha Good game mate, army is looking nice : )

Did you forget that the Dominion have scout or did PJ just choose not to use it?

Since he did not have the initiative I assume he chose not to use it. I still would have deployed closer to the D'Eldar and scouted tanks in front of them for cover.

I have played several games with the new SoB codex, it is as weak as people say it is. The only good part of the codex is scout and jacobus with DCA/Crusaders

I really like your batreps.... this was no exception! I had a really tough game yesterday.. my brothers luck was insane, and I rolled a 1 or 2 on just about everything IMHO, the DE codex is brillliant not because it is overpowered, but because every unit is good and viable.. which sadly isnt true for other codices.
Sqallum

Cool report. Was very surprised how durable the Sisters appeared to be vs. DE firepower. But, it's a game using dice so anything can happen.

Regarding mixing up contents inside vehicles. I run a Mechdar list and I've gone to using different colored beads that I place next to tanks to represent exactly what units are inside. And once the unit disembarks, I can removed the colored bead so I can later keep track which vehicle actually still has a unit inside. I've found with the proliferation of vehicles and the ability for units to jump into any transport, effeciently tracking units inside vehicles is extremely important and saves a lot of pain with your opponent over squabbles about what's riding in what.

Pretty report. Me likey. I found the lists a bit odd though.

Wracks in raiders would have won you the game. It is more efficient to break squads in combat than to pelt them to death with darts.
Compared to MEQ, sisters will die to Venoms at the same rate due to the armor. The difference is that there will be more sisters left to retaliate due to their cheaper points value.

Also note percentage wise it takes about 11 lances to destroy a SoB rhino with a penetrating hit, 18 if smoked. Most Dark Eldar players I know tend to expect more out of lances and get disappointed. With that in mind, your friend should look into dropping the celestian squad which will give him exactly enough points to upgrade the dominion transport to TLMM immolators. Those, he would want to scout pregame and smoke to draw fire way from the back lines and buy them time to get their melta weapons in range.


In terms of attrition, I think the dark eldar list was not built to kill that many 3+ units. And by having blasters instead of lances, it would force you to feed squads into melta and bolter range. So based on lists alone, I think the sisters had the advantage the whole time, so no surprise that they won.

I look forward to another featuring the tyranids vs sisters. I sense that it will be a one sided battle since the battle sisters have no heavy flamers.

Based on the terrain as Sisters I would have deployed vs the scourges on the sistres (left flank), crushed that and left the other two right flank scourge units out of play (mostly).

Basically rufsued flank the other side

Ratius wrote:Based on the terrain as Sisters I would have deployed vs the scourges on the sistres (left flank), crushed that and left the other two right flank scourge units out of play (mostly).

Basically rufsued flank the other side

They explained why they deployed in one corner under the deployment section of the report. But, what is weird is that the exorcists seem to have their side armor exposed to the scourges. The clumping up of the rhinos can be a death trap too, since if the front ones get stunned or immobilized, then the rear is stuck shuffling about.

This match up reminds me of the old third edition marine codex on how to deal with an army that has superior mobility. It is funny that their advise really did work.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:nice batrep... Look forward to seeing the sisters when everything is painted in and modeled. The Dark Eldar look sweet.. Cheers

Thanks man.

wileythenord wrote:I know what alphastrike means sir, you can alpha strike even when not going first. You just have to deploy in such a way that the enemy can't cripple you the first turn. Its simple math, 48" wide board, enemies deploy 36-48" away from your board edge, NS reduce by 6", now use the Pythagorean theorem to determine where you can deploy and not be shot, keeping in mind your targets. I do it all the time. Once I figured this out I started letting SW go first every time.

When you have as many units as Dark Eldar have, you absolutely can reserve, you are statistically going to get half of your army in on the second turn.

Most stuff in IG you care about is only 36"(chimeras), if they are rocking hydras then that is your alphastrike target. Chimeras have to be within 30" (NS) so you can easily avoid them to concentrate on vendettas and hydras. IG blob armies are the toughest nut for DE to crack.

As for wolves, going second ensures that they spread their long fangs out across the table because they think they need to cover the whole table. That allows you to bring your whole crew to bare on one part of their force, venoms kill long fangs easily. After your destroy one squad of fangs then you can just move down the line, staying back farther than 42" away (NS) and wearing them out one unit at a time, poor puppies just cry.

But we all have our playstyles, I love reading how others play!

You can't alpha strike second if you've lost part of your force.

Night shields will only work on situation of enemies deployment, if they know you have night shields then they will deploy closer, plus add in the fact the size of the Dark Eldar model as well so it's no 48" away, that's the board length.

Chimeras deploy 12" from table edge (12") move 6" and have 30" range on multi lasers thanks to night shields, that's 48" range in total and can reach you first turn. Blobs are easy to bring down with concentrated splinter cannon fire.

If you stay back further than 42" away from Space Wolves, in particularly Long Fangs, then you cannot shoot them either.

Sephyr wrote:Very cool Batrep. Both armies look cool but the DE are absolutely stunning.

Gameplay-wise, yeah it was a bit harsh. Between flamers and meltas, he definitely didn't leave you much room for defense. Having the Initiative lost was harsh, yes, and you should have waited until his line was more broken and static before splitting your army. As it was, it still had enough threat to wail on one of the halves efficiently.

Thanks for the pics and report!

Thanks man - still got some work on them, nearly finished though, only a single unit of Scourges left (done two units at the weekend) and three Ravagers.

I've always lost games where I split my army. I perhaps should have moved everything back together and moved to support the unit of two Scourges which were getting shot at.

Red Corsair wrote:It is always nice to give advice (and not bad advice ha ha) I assume you were coaching him because he isn't a solid general and didn't want a walk in the park? His army is lovely though, I adore the converted tanks and the teal scheme!

I see your stuff is getting a bit more paint as well ; )

I think every game I see you play is Kill Points by the way! I hate kill points personally, your army suffers immensely from this I am afraid... I would hate to see you face those pesky draigo wing builds as they are stupid with wound allocation, at 'Ard Boys I saw DE fire at lest 80 poison shots into a 5 man pali combat squad and not a single one died!!! So ridiculous, but I guess I am ranting ha ha Good game mate, army is looking nice : )

PJ is a alright player, but likes to learn. As mentioned at the start of the report I was helping him as he runs initiative1podcast and I'm one of the hosts on there, so we wanted to get a clear view of Sisters.

Nearly done on painting as done some more over the weekend, got three units left.

It's funny you should mention that as everytime I go to Powerfist it ends up been kill points, and yes my army suffers from it, it's got 28 kill points!

Warmaster wrote:Did you forget that the Dominion have scout or did PJ just choose not to use it?

Dominion squad isn't going to scout when they didn't have first turn

calypso2ts wrote:Since he did not have the initiative I assume he chose not to use it. I still would have deployed closer to the D'Eldar and scouted tanks in front of them for cover.

I have played several games with the new SoB codex, it is as weak as people say it is. The only good part of the codex is scout and jacobus with DCA/Crusaders

Not sure if this would have worked. If he would have deployed closer to me and hadn't stole the initiative then all my blasters would have been in range on turn 1, then scouting those tanks would have just made them target priority and probably took them out.

Unfortunately I didn't get to see Jacobus in action, but I can see he's awesome for Deathcult.

Sqallum wrote:I really like your batreps.... this was no exception! I had a really tough game yesterday.. my brothers luck was insane, and I rolled a 1 or 2 on just about everything IMHO, the DE codex is brillliant not because it is overpowered, but because every unit is good and viable.. which sadly isnt true for other codices.
Sqallum

Thanks man. The Dark Eldar codex is pretty cool as everything is fair it and nothing over the top like you said. I really enjoy playing them, win or lose.

Sarigar wrote:Cool report. Was very surprised how durable the Sisters appeared to be vs. DE firepower. But, it's a game using dice so anything can happen.

Regarding mixing up contents inside vehicles. I run a Mechdar list and I've gone to using different colored beads that I place next to tanks to represent exactly what units are inside. And once the unit disembarks, I can removed the colored bead so I can later keep track which vehicle actually still has a unit inside. I've found with the proliferation of vehicles and the ability for units to jump into any transport, effeciently tracking units inside vehicles is extremely important and saves a lot of pain with your opponent over squabbles about what's riding in what.

Thanks man. I was surprised that they didn't go down sooner TBH, but it's a dice game isn't.

TBH I shouldn't have gotten mixed up at all. I've got three Venoms with Wyches on and one of those Venoms has a single Wych, so it's quite clear which Venom has Trueborn in with the Haemonculus. I just didn't pay attention :( . Though for firing Venoms I do play a dice by them so I know which one has fired.

paintedpotato wrote:Pretty report. Me likey. I found the lists a bit odd though.

Wracks in raiders would have won you the game. It is more efficient to break squads in combat than to pelt them to death with darts.
Compared to MEQ, sisters will die to Venoms at the same rate due to the armor. The difference is that there will be more sisters left to retaliate due to their cheaper points value.

Also note percentage wise it takes about 11 lances to destroy a SoB rhino with a penetrating hit, 18 if smoked. Most Dark Eldar players I know tend to expect more out of lances and get disappointed. With that in mind, your friend should look into dropping the celestian squad which will give him exactly enough points to upgrade the dominion transport to TLMM immolators. Those, he would want to scout pregame and smoke to draw fire way from the back lines and buy them time to get their melta weapons in range.


In terms of attrition, I think the dark eldar list was not built to kill that many 3+ units. And by having blasters instead of lances, it would force you to feed squads into melta and bolter range. So based on lists alone, I think the sisters had the advantage the whole time, so no surprise that they won.

I look forward to another featuring the tyranids vs sisters. I sense that it will be a one sided battle since the battle sisters have no heavy flamers.

Thanks about the report.

How would have Wracks won me the game? They have no blasters. Wracks are awesome in objective games.

Thanks for the info about the lances, I admit I thought I would have had a easier time busting them open.

Ratius wrote:Based on the terrain as Sisters I would have deployed vs the scourges on the sistres (left flank), crushed that and left the other two right flank scourge units out of play (mostly).

Basically rufsued flank the other side

Originally I did suggest this, but on each flank was equal number of lances from various units (Scourges & Ravagers) so I doubt it would have made much difference.

paintedpotato wrote:

Ratius wrote:Based on the terrain as Sisters I would have deployed vs the scourges on the sistres (left flank), crushed that and left the other two right flank scourge units out of play (mostly).

Basically rufsued flank the other side

They explained why they deployed in one corner under the deployment section of the report. But, what is weird is that the exorcists seem to have their side armor exposed to the scourges. The clumping up of the rhinos can be a death trap too, since if the front ones get stunned or immobilized, then the rear is stuck shuffling about.

This match up reminds me of the old third edition marine codex on how to deal with an army that has superior mobility. It is funny that their advise really did work.

Sometimes PJ did place things funnily, and I moved them for him when I thought was a better. The Exorcists is just something I missed. The clumping up Rhinos too close is a issue, I learnt this from Blood Angels and they should be spaced out a little more.

Wracks have no blasters so wracks go in raiders that have dark lances, which have further range. Therefore you are not forced to get within the SoB gun range. Once the rhinos are popped, the wracks would have an easier time eliminating squads compared to the venoms becuase SoB have no close combat other than that power weapon squad. Wyches would be even better, but not enough people give credit to Wracks. Wracks can tie down units so they can't shoot, compared to a venom which has to kill ALL the models in a unit or possibly get shot down by their standard issue weapon.

Well I don't need Wracks to do that, I can do that with Warriors. Wracks would require a massive list change. Venoms definately would take care of squads better than Wracks would in combat, at range at least.

Wracks are best for objective holding and tying units up in combat.

mercer wrote:Venoms then blast the exposed melta Battle Sisters but my Venoms aren't on par tonight and two members of the squad survives after ALL eight Venoms fire at them, Sisters pass morale.

On par, your 8 venoms would have left 4 alive. You need more close combat to run down squads. Otherwise you will run out of time and not be able to kill anything else. Warrior squads are way too fragile to have in close combat. An agonizor could help them if you are lucky, but I would prefer using dedicated assault units as they have better saves and more affective attacks

btw, you may have moved your photos. Now the links dont work.

I have to agree with Wiley on this. Your response (12” deploy, 6” move, 30” range) assumes that units are deployed across from each other. When all the DE vehicles are packed in the same corner you will be hard pressed to get many Chimeras deployed centrally into range, and forget it if they are on the opposite end.

As for your list in general. I think this batrep shows off some of the inherent weaknesses of the Venom Spam lists. Without and anti-tank CC ability, you have a real hard time finishing off armor. A unit of wyches with haywires and/or a beast pack would have turned those stunned/immobilized vehicles into wrecks (not to mention being useful against against the sister squads as well). I would recommend beasts and wyches over scourges and I would recommend finding points for nightshields (as they could have saved you all those losses from melta, and probably more than a few from bolter fire.

As for Wracks, I love em. I always run a unit of 6-8 with liquefier and acothyst with a Haemie with venom blade and liquifere and they wreck face. What can they do better than a venom full of warriors? Completely destroy a unit of infantry. I have on numerous occasions had the unit wipe out full units of orks and MEQs in just a couple of combat turns. In one game in particular, they wiped out 3 30 man ork mobs in 4 turns.

Looks like you have the starts to a great list that, with a bit more depth, can be a really tough army.

paintedpotato wrote:

mercer wrote:Venoms then blast the exposed melta Battle Sisters but my Venoms aren't on par tonight and two members of the squad survives after ALL eight Venoms fire at them, Sisters pass morale.

On par, your 8 venoms would have left 4 alive. You need more close combat to run down squads. Otherwise you will run out of time and not be able to kill anything else. Warrior squads are way too fragile to have in close combat. An agonizor could help them if you are lucky, but I would prefer using dedicated assault units as they have better saves and more affective attacks

btw, you may have moved your photos. Now the links dont work.

8 Venoms certainly didn't leave 4 alive, more like 6! I know this proves your point, but honestly they usually do loads better. One example is a fired 6 Venoms at two squads of 5 man Interceptors and wiped them out. Same output as the last example but just at a squad of Long Fangs inc terminator Wolf Guard. I would have thought that 6 Venoms would kill 10 power armour models TBH. I think on the Venom shots I was missing about 5, so hitting with 7 and then getting about 3-4 wounds, sometimes none!

I've tried close combat with Beastmasters before, and while the Beastmasters are cool I prefer the shooting. But now I am having food for thought..

Warrior squads I don't use in combat anyway. It would be dedicated assault units like Beastmasters.

The bandwidth has run out on the photos.

gardeth wrote:I have to agree with Wiley on this. Your response (12” deploy, 6” move, 30” range) assumes that units are deployed across from each other. When all the DE vehicles are packed in the same corner you will be hard pressed to get many Chimeras deployed centrally into range, and forget it if they are on the opposite end.

As for your list in general. I think this batrep shows off some of the inherent weaknesses of the Venom Spam lists. Without and anti-tank CC ability, you have a real hard time finishing off armor. A unit of wyches with haywires and/or a beast pack would have turned those stunned/immobilized vehicles into wrecks (not to mention being useful against against the sister squads as well). I would recommend beasts and wyches over scourges and I would recommend finding points for nightshields (as they could have saved you all those losses from melta, and probably more than a few from bolter fire.

As for Wracks, I love em. I always run a unit of 6-8 with liquefier and acothyst with a Haemie with venom blade and liquifere and they wreck face. What can they do better than a venom full of warriors? Completely destroy a unit of infantry. I have on numerous occasions had the unit wipe out full units of orks and MEQs in just a couple of combat turns. In one game in particular, they wiped out 3 30 man ork mobs in 4 turns.

Looks like you have the starts to a great list that, with a bit more depth, can be a really tough army.

Yes you're right that's presuming that both armies are deployed exactly opposite each other, which isn't always the case. However most things can still be in range.

I've used Beastmasters before and I did find them better for popping tanks more than infantry slaying. I prefer the long range fire power really, the way I see Dark Eldar is they are mostly a shooting force, like Imperial Guard but with weaker vehicles. I definately won't bother with nightshields though, this aren't worth the points as would have limited use at best. But you're totally right, the weakness of Venom spam is lack of combat, and in this game all these stunned/immobilised Rhinos could have been taken out by a small Beastmaster unit. I may ditch a unit of Scourges and get back in a single Beastmaster unit and move it from cover to cover, with the points from Scourges I could get 3 x beastmasters, 3 x khymerae and 4 x razorwing flocks, but I would like 4 dogs in total....I think a play test is needed, but the Scourges do need to stay in some capicity for long ranged anti tank.

I totally agree about Wracks in combat, though I am struggling to see how they can beat 3 x 30 Boyz in combat in 4 turns, that's like 1.5 turns of combat per mob.

Where I have had my success with DE is a combination of long range shooting, a strong cc threat, and a punishing amount of close range firepower. With threats at three ranges it makes it easier to put pressure on the enemy early and then isolate and destroy portions of the enemy force.

Regarding nightshields, I used to use them extensively in the old ‘dex and then dropped them with the new one. I have since re-added them back after Grey Knights dropped. And it turned a lot of nearly impossible to win games vs GK into one sided massacres for me . Now riflemen dreads are out so whatever. But in general, I can’t really remember a game where I thought I had wasted my points on the nightshields. It helps against foes with long range and can absolutely cripple foes that rely on mid/short range weapons. I have had more than a few games where I have lost no or nearly no vehicles simply because my enemy couldn’t get into range or couldn’t get enough into range. They really help in board control by effectively making the board longer for your opponent but not for you.

As for the wracks, it helps to shockprow the orks into a nice cluster (avoid plowing into the claw of course) hitting em with x2 liquifiers and then charging in with str 4 and poison .

Well I think I've got what you have. I've got 108 splinter cannon shots from the Venoms, 13 dark lances, 14 blasters and then if I add in the Beastmasters and maybe Wracks (not sure on Wracks) I get a c.c punch as well. If I did take Wracks it would be a better place to put my Haemonculus and the Wracks will get furious charge, which will let them re-roll to wound with those poison weapons.

There isn't a lot of Grey Knights players where I play TBH. It's mostly long range stuff like missile launchers, lascannons along with meltas so night shields wouldn't be much help to me.

cant see pics

I want to see the Venoms :x , pic not working

Venoms in another report I just put up: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/405145.page