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Okay so here I am on a diff forum and I am posting in their space wolves board and I mention making a successor chapter that uses same rules and everything just a diff color and name and insta catch crap about it. According to what they are saying is that you can not make a successor chapter out of the wolves because the SW codex says their are no known successful SW successor chapter. I am wondering if this is true?

This is untrue. A successor was recorded for wolves- Wolf Brothers- and I've seen an Iron Hands army using the wolf list.
Do what you like, but keep to the rules.

40k is an unspeakably huge and silly universe. Go nuts.

There are no official successors other than the horribly failed and now destroyed Wolf Brothers.

But the word there is OFFICIAL.

Go nuts.

Alright. They are saying since it did fail that the gene seed can't be split off so no chapters can be made and that other players will flat out refuse to play me if I made one. They are trying to say you can make a Lost Company but that seems just like making your own chapter except that most people will hate the name change from space wolves

If your oponants are refusing to play you, get better opponants.
As long as you stick to the codexed rules and it's obvious what model is representing what unit, you'll be fine.

Ill be using the official Space Wolves models just diff name and color. I am trying to point it out to them. I think these guys are just way to into the thing of being space wolves if you ask me

Call'em something nordic. If questions are raised, they're a space wolves company under a newly-elevated Wolf Lord who wore *insert colour here* armour on Fenris which saved his life and recoloured his company's warplate to reflect this.
Against reasonable opponents, use your real story.

4oursword wrote:Call'em something nordic. If questions are raised, they're a space wolves company under a newly-elevated Wolf Lord who wore *insert colour here* armour on Fenris which saved his life and recoloured his company's warplate to reflect this.
Against reasonable opponents, use your real story.

They are actually gonna be called the Wolves of Geass after their homeworld

For fluff reasons there have been no successful Space Wolves successors. The people of Fenris seem to be the only people capable of taking the geneseed, hence why the Wolf Brothers failed. So, if you say your Chapter is a Space Wolves successor then it's not technically correct by the fluff. Of course, you can use whatever counts-as army that you want, but if you want to stick with the fluff then don't do this. A counts-as Iron Hands army is a great idea though.

Yep, go right ahead. 40k isn't a story, it's a setting. If it's plausible (and a SW successor is plausible), knock yourself out.

iproxtaco wrote:For fluff reasons there have been no successful Space Wolves successors. The people of Fenris seem to be the only people capable of taking the geneseed, hence why the Wolf Brothers failed. So, if you say your Chapter is a Space Wolves successor then it's not technically correct by the fluff. Of course, you can use whatever counts-as army that you want, but if you want to stick with the fluff then don't do this. A counts-as Iron Hands army is a great idea though.

Ill say to you the same I did them. All successor chapters are unofficial so unofficially I can make a space wolves successor chapter if I want to. I am sure GW would agree with me. I think it would be internally stupid on their part to make SW the only one who can't have a successor chapter

Whatever, you asked why they're saying that, and I gave you the reason. If you want to keep with the fluff, then don't make a Space Wolves successor. Like you said, it doesn't really matter, since you can make whatever you want since there's no written rule. The Wolf Brothers are the Wolves' only successor by the fluff, and they failed because the people of Fenris are the only ones that can take the geneseed, that's the bottom line, and people know it. So don't get all huffy when people say your army isn't right.

Perhaps a wolf guard battle leader had a difference of opinion with ol' Logan and decided to form his own crew...

4oursword wrote:Perhaps a wolf guard battle leader had a difference of opinion with ol' Logan and decided to form his own crew...

Still would be Space Wolves, though. Or possibly Traitors. You could always, if you wanted to go by fluff, use Skyrar's Dark Wolves. Listed as "Chaos" Space Marines that are probably from Space Wolves, but they don't use Demons or worship any Chaos gods, so basically just Renegade Space Marines doing whatever they feel like.

iproxtaco wrote:Whatever, you asked why they're saying that, and I gave you the reason. If you want to keep with the fluff, then don't make a Space Wolves successor. Like you said, it doesn't really matter, since you can make whatever you want since there's no written rule. The Wolf Brothers are the Wolves' only successor by the fluff, and they failed because the people of Fenris are the only ones that can take the geneseed, that's the bottom line, and people know it. So don't get all huffy when people say your army isn't right.

I have read the codex and in not one place does it say that the people of Fenris are the only ones who can accept the gene seed. I am trying to actually make a story that fits along with the fluff but apparently that is unacceptable to most 40k players. It clearly states that their are no known successful chapters it doesn't say their never will be. So how is it going against the fluff if I make a completely legal and plausible story that fits along with said fluff

iproxtaco wrote:Whatever, you asked why they're saying that, and I gave you the reason. If you want to keep with the fluff, then don't make a Space Wolves successor.

Or make a successor that was 'created in secret' and nobody knows about.

On a side-note, they don't actually have to be a successor of the Space Wolves to use the same rules. Successor chapters don't always follow the same doctrines as their progenitors.

If you want to paint up The Pansy Wolves Attack Squadron Marines of Laughter and Fluffy Bunnies, you are allowed to do that provided you use SW rules, or your oppponent agrewees to using your custom azmde rules.


Similarly, if you want to make a Chapter Like Red Wolves( I think they are decendents of SW, thery even have the same symbol, just different colours), and wnat to use the SW rules, with your own fluff and paint scheme you can do so, no problem. Paint scheme and fluff mean nothing on the tabletop.

Nephos wrote: So how is it going against the fluff if I make a completely legal and plausible story that fits along with said fluff

Right or wrong, a lot of players have rather set opinions on just what is appropriate given the current fluff. That's why there is always so much shouting when a new codex comes along and introduces new fluff that changes how they perceived things to be.

The background says that there is only one 'official' successor for the Wolves, so as far as those players are concerned there can only ever be that one successor.

Ultimately, though, the fluff is a setting for a game, not holy writ handed down from on high that tells us all that can be. It's a starting point, that's all. If you want your chapter to be a Space Wolves off-shoot, go nuts. But you will have to accept that some people will complain about it, right or wrong.

Deadshot wrote:If you want to paint up The Pansy Wolves Attack Squadron Marines of Laughter and Fluffy Bunnies, you are allowed to do that provided you use SW rules, or your oppponent agrewees to using your custom azmde rules.


Similarly, if you want to make a Chapter Like Red Wolves( I think they are decendents of SW, thery even have the same symbol, just different colours), and wnat to use the SW rules, with your own fluff and paint scheme you can do so, no problem. Paint scheme and fluff mean nothing on the tabletop.

Thank you. This. This right here is the point I am trying to make. It is even in the fluff of SW that they are trying to fix said gene seed problem. So going along with fluff I can make a chapter AFTER they have fixed it. Though fluff really doesn't matter on the table top


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

Nephos wrote: So how is it going against the fluff if I make a completely legal and plausible story that fits along with said fluff

Right or wrong, a lot of players have rather set opinions on just what is appropriate given the current fluff. That's why there is always so much shouting when a new codex comes along and introduces new fluff that changes how they perceived things to be.

The background says that there is only one 'official' successor for the Wolves, so as far as those players are concerned there can only ever be that one successor.

Ultimately, though, the fluff is a setting for a game, not holy writ handed down from on high that tells us all that can be. It's a starting point, that's all. If you want your chapter to be a Space Wolves off-shoot, go nuts. But you will have to accept that some people will complain about it, right or wrong.

I accept that people will complain. What I am saying is I think it childish that some will refuse to play me if I do make my own

Nephos wrote: What I am saying is I think it childish that some will refuse to play me if I do make my own

That would be childish, but from my experience would very rarely happen, unless you're playing against 12-year-olds. The vast majority of players won't care about the fluff behind your Chapter as anything more than a discussion point.

Nephos wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Whatever, you asked why they're saying that, and I gave you the reason. If you want to keep with the fluff, then don't make a Space Wolves successor. Like you said, it doesn't really matter, since you can make whatever you want since there's no written rule. The Wolf Brothers are the Wolves' only successor by the fluff, and they failed because the people of Fenris are the only ones that can take the geneseed, that's the bottom line, and people know it. So don't get all huffy when people say your army isn't right.

I have read the codex and in not one place does it say that the people of Fenris are the only ones who can accept the gene seed. I am trying to actually make a story that fits along with the fluff but apparently that is unacceptable to most 40k players. It clearly states that their are no known successful chapters it doesn't say their never will be. So how is it going against the fluff if I make a completely legal and plausible story that fits along with said fluff

It's not in the codex, it's in the Battle for the Fang book IIRC. The Canis Helix or whatever it is, does not work with non-Fenrisians. That's fluff. If people complain, don't get frustrated.

iproxtaco wrote:

Nephos wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Whatever, you asked why they're saying that, and I gave you the reason. If you want to keep with the fluff, then don't make a Space Wolves successor. Like you said, it doesn't really matter, since you can make whatever you want since there's no written rule. The Wolf Brothers are the Wolves' only successor by the fluff, and they failed because the people of Fenris are the only ones that can take the geneseed, that's the bottom line, and people know it. So don't get all huffy when people say your army isn't right.

I have read the codex and in not one place does it say that the people of Fenris are the only ones who can accept the gene seed. I am trying to actually make a story that fits along with the fluff but apparently that is unacceptable to most 40k players. It clearly states that their are no known successful chapters it doesn't say their never will be. So how is it going against the fluff if I make a completely legal and plausible story that fits along with said fluff

It's not in the codex, it's in the Battle for the Fang book IIRC. The Canis Helix or whatever it is, does not work with non-Fenrisians. That's fluff. If people complain, don't get frustrated.

It also is in the fluff that they are trying to fix the gene seed so I don't see how its going against the fluff if I make my chapter around the fact that its been fixed

Trying to fix and have fixed are different things. Following current fluff then no, there are to successors and can't be. What you'd do is fine by me from a game perspective, from from the fluff, you're basically inventing random bits so you can field an army that the fluff says you can't.

iproxtaco wrote:Trying to fix and have fixed are different things. Following current fluff then no, there are to successors and can't be. What you'd do is fine by me from a game perspective, from from the fluff, you're basically inventing random bits so you can field an army that the fluff says you can't.

Look if people are allowed to make pre-heresy stuff and it fit into fluff and be fine then I don't see why I can't make something in the near real near future as long as I don't go off the wall my army using stuff it shouldn't crazy

You know how it's possible? Magic. That's how they did it. Magic. Some wizards came along, and fixed it with magic.

If you don't get the reference, then you probably have more of a life than i do.

Nephos wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Trying to fix and have fixed are different things. Following current fluff then no, there are to successors and can't be. What you'd do is fine by me from a game perspective, from from the fluff, you're basically inventing random bits so you can field an army that the fluff says you can't.

Look if people are allowed to make pre-heresy stuff and it fit into fluff and be fine then I don't see why I can't make something in the near real near future as long as I don't go off the wall my army using stuff it shouldn't crazy

There's still a difference between them. One has a basis in actual events, sticking to the fluff. The other is you basically inventing stuff so you can make your own army. Inventing fluff is fine, providing it fits. This, does not. Like I said though, do whatever you want, there's no written rule that says you can't make your successor army. If you want to stick to fluff however, choose something else.

Totally plausible. I know I've made the case for SW successors before, and in return have heard some highly plausible arguments for why you COULDN'T make a SW successor. I tend to lean on logic. First the original space wolves were recruited on Terra and didn't have any geneseed instability. Second though the Wolf Brothers failed the High Lords have never really subscribed to only trying something once. You're telling me in 10,000 years and over 20 founding NO more SW geneseed has been tried. Last: 13th Company
These guys never saw the Codex Astartes, there's nothing stopping them from having expanded, unlikely though it may be.

Absolutely, you can make another Chapter from Space Wolves, as i read it, you can use Gene-Seed from the 13th Company, as long as you have all your fluff worked out into a convincing storyline, there is absolutely nothing against it.

Also you can use any of the IC's in your successor chapter as long as you paint them another colour and rename them.

So go for it.

AustonT wrote:Totally plausible. I know I've made the case for SW successors before, and in return have heard some highly plausible arguments for why you COULDN'T make a SW successor. I tend to lean on logic. First the original space wolves were recruited on Terra and didn't have any geneseed instability. Second though the Wolf Brothers failed the High Lords have never really subscribed to only trying something once. You're telling me in 10,000 years and over 20 founding NO more SW geneseed has been tried. Last: 13th Company
These guys never saw the Codex Astartes, there's nothing stopping them from having expanded, unlikely though it may be.

See I see both side of the argument but I agree. I go that if logically speaking its in the fluff that the gene seed can be fixed so its not far fetched for me to make a chapter where the gene seed is fixed. Also checked out your painting thread and just wanna say I like Astoroth model he looks really good you did a good job on him even though your not gonna use him lol