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I would be fine with it.

Just make it very convincing and you can get away with it.

AustonT wrote:Last: 13th Company
These guys never saw the Codex Astartes, there's nothing stopping them from having expanded, unlikely though it may be.

Achaylus72 wrote:Absolutely, you can make another Chapter from Space Wolves, as i read it, you can use Gene-Seed from the 13th Company, as long as you have all your fluff worked out into a convincing storyline, there is absolutely nothing against it.

Well that is an entirely ridiculous story idea if you have read any 13th Company fluff. If the 13th Company don't even have access to forges/armourys where are they gonna find the facilities to develop organs from geneseed, recruit and train new applicants? Also the fact that all 13th Company marines are from pre-Heresy times why would they still have their geneseed inside of them? (in the time of rapid legion uptake marines would have their geneseed removed as soon as it was mature).

Thanks. I always thought Astro deserved to treated like a chaplain and not a Mephiston Clone (even if he is).

I actually decided to make it a White Scar successor Chapter that counts as Space Wolves

iproxtaco wrote:There's still a difference between them. One has a basis in actual events, sticking to the fluff. The other is you basically inventing stuff so you can make your own army. Inventing fluff is fine, providing it fits. This, does not. Like I said though, do whatever you want, there's no written rule that says you can't make your successor army. If you want to stick to fluff however, choose something else.

Do not choose something else.

If you want to stick to fluff make a successor chapter that has never been revealed.

They only are called upon in the times of the greatest threats.

They wait in Cryofreeze until the Space wolves determine they need their services. They awaken the beast within the Wolves of Geass and send them to fight where they are needed the most!

Only when the Wolves of Geass have cleansed the planet do the Space wolves reappear and escort the Wolves of Geass back to their ship where they slumber in Cryofreeze until the next infestation happens.

DeathReaper wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:There's still a difference between them. One has a basis in actual events, sticking to the fluff. The other is you basically inventing stuff so you can make your own army. Inventing fluff is fine, providing it fits. This, does not. Like I said though, do whatever you want, there's no written rule that says you can't make your successor army. If you want to stick to fluff however, choose something else.

Do not choose something else.

If you want to stick to fluff make a successor chapter that has never been revealed.

They only are called upon in the times of the greatest threats.

They wait in Cryofreeze until the Space wolves determine they need their services. They awaken the beast within the Wolves of Geass and send them to fight where they are needed the most!

Only when the Wolves of Geass have cleansed the planet do the Space wolves reappear and escort the Wolves of Geass back to their ship where they slumber in Cryofreeze until the next infestation happens.

I really like that idea

DeathReaper wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:There's still a difference between them. One has a basis in actual events, sticking to the fluff. The other is you basically inventing stuff so you can make your own army. Inventing fluff is fine, providing it fits. This, does not. Like I said though, do whatever you want, there's no written rule that says you can't make your successor army. If you want to stick to fluff however, choose something else.

Do not choose something else.

If you want to stick to fluff make a successor chapter that has never been revealed.

They only are called upon in the times of the greatest threats.

They wait in Cryofreeze until the Space wolves determine they need their services. They awaken the beast within the Wolves of Geass and send them to fight where they are needed the most!

Only when the Wolves of Geass have cleansed the planet do the Space wolves reappear and escort the Wolves of Geass back to their ship where they slumber in Cryofreeze until the next infestation happens.

A Chapter that doesn't, and can't, exist? Ever heard of the Battle of the Fang? The motive of the Thousand Sons is all about this, that Space Wolves can't make successor chapters.

iproxtaco wrote:A Chapter that doesn't, and can't, exist? Ever heard of the Battle of the Fang? The motive of the Thousand Sons is all about this, that Space Wolves can't make successor chapters.

From the lexicanum:
"It is currently unknown if there are any other descendant chapters of the Space Wolves at all."

Found Here

and: "However, the swift degredation of their genetic viability quickly made it clear that the gene-seed of the Space Wolves was almost impossible to use to create another Chapter"

Found Here

Its Almost impossible, that means there is a slight chance that another chapter can be made.

and It is currently unknown if there are any other descendant chapters of the Space Wolves, thus why they are keeping the Wolves of Geass a secret from everyone. (This here gives anyone free reign to stick to the fluff and play a successor chapter, since It is currently unknown if there are any successor chapters out there.)

We know their gene-seed has some issues with swift degredation of their genetic viability, that's why the wolves of Geass are held in Cryo where they do not age, and only pulled out when there is great need. When the mutations start to show they are sent into battle first and if they are not killed in battle they are killed by the Space Wolves and the non mutated ones go back into the cryo chambers to slumber once more.

Use a cursed founding chapter. Say they were an attempt to stabilize the gene seed which met with...Predictably mixed results. Maybe only the highest members of the chapter have a suspicion of their origins. Maybe no one knows as the records are pretty crappy from the 21st founding. Don't have to be an acknowledged successor. They don't even necessarily need to know they're successors to the SW. They can still share a lot of common traits. Add in rash mutations and/or some other cursed founding nastiness that the chapter must conceal/try to live with for sufficient grim-dark.

BrainDeleted wrote:Use a cursed founding chapter. Say they were an attempt to stabilize the gene seed which met with...Predictably mixed results. Maybe only the highest members of the chapter have a suspicion of their origins. Maybe no one knows as the records are pretty crappy from the 21st founding. Don't have to be an acknowledged successor. They don't even necessarily need to know they're successors to the SW. They can still share a lot of common traits. Add in rash mutations and/or some other cursed founding nastiness that the chapter must conceal/try to live with for sufficient grim-dark.

The records of the 13th founding are crappy AFAIK the 21st Founding records ar epretty good.

Make any successors to anything, just dont wreck the fluff too much...

DeathReaper wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:A Chapter that doesn't, and can't, exist? Ever heard of the Battle of the Fang? The motive of the Thousand Sons is all about this, that Space Wolves can't make successor chapters.

From the lexicanum:
"It is currently unknown if there are any other descendant chapters of the Space Wolves at all."

Found Here

and: "However, the swift degredation of their genetic viability quickly made it clear that the gene-seed of the Space Wolves was almost impossible to use to create another Chapter"

Found Here

Its Almost impossible, that means there is a slight chance that another chapter can be made.

and It is currently unknown if there are any other descendant chapters of the Space Wolves, thus why they are keeping the Wolves of Geass a secret from everyone. (This here gives anyone free reign to stick to the fluff and play a successor chapter, since It is currently unknown if there are any successor chapters out there.)

We know their gene-seed has some issues with swift degredation of their genetic viability, that's why the wolves of Geass are held in Cryo where they do not age, and only pulled out when there is great need. When the mutations start to show they are sent into battle first and if they are not killed in battle they are killed by the Space Wolves and the non mutated ones go back into the cryo chambers to slumber once more.

Seems plausible, if a bit contrived from my point of view. I'm not basing this off some stuff I read on Lexicanum (not directed at you), the Battle of the Fang novel has this very subject as it's main plot. The sons are the verge of curing the flaws, Magnus knows this must be stopped, and he stops it. It doesn't help that the Wolves are violently opposed to anything like this. Curing the geneseed was wrong in their eyes.

DeathReaper wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:There's still a difference between them. One has a basis in actual events, sticking to the fluff. The other is you basically inventing stuff so you can make your own army. Inventing fluff is fine, providing it fits. This, does not. Like I said though, do whatever you want, there's no written rule that says you can't make your successor army. If you want to stick to fluff however, choose something else.

Do not choose something else.

If you want to stick to fluff make a successor chapter that has never been revealed.

They only are called upon in the times of the greatest threats.

They wait in Cryofreeze until the Space wolves determine they need their services. They awaken the beast within the Wolves of Geass and send them to fight where they are needed the most!

Only when the Wolves of Geass have cleansed the planet do the Space wolves reappear and escort the Wolves of Geass back to their ship where they slumber in Cryofreeze until the next infestation happens.

I really don't see how this is logical:

A. Why does the Space Wolves has a secret unknown successor chapter, only the high lords order foundings.
B. Why would the Space Wolves recruit of world, an idea that goes against their beliefs, to recruit applicants they know will mutate and degrade.
C. Why would they go to all that effort (and waste of geneseed) when they could just recruit more Fenrisians.
D. If the High Lords knew about this, why would they then station this sleeping chapter under the Space Wolves control, new founding are placed where they are needed, Fenrisian space is very well defended already so it would be a massive waste of resources for little, if any gain (the High Lords may be a bit odd at times but they can do math).

Because of magic. The runestones sent a sign. Problem solved.

Honestly i'm okay with your idea, so long as you can make plausible fluff. Make them a dying chapter of horridly mutated Space Wolves.

Mutations don't always have to be debilitating. Represent it as MOTF and counts as Wolf Claws.

Also. It was said already but I feel I have to parrot it. The 13th Company could -never- go back. Their too far taken by the beast, and the fact they scavenge from slain Chaos Marines makes them appear heretical. If they ever hunt down Magnus. They would sadly be put to the torch by the Inquisition if they returned.

purplefood wrote:
The records of the 13th founding are crappy AFAIK the 21st Founding records ar epretty good.

*Cue buzzer noise*

Nope, the 21st Founding was right before that thing, the Age of Apostasy, and thus most of the records that were made (Many of the chapters didn't even go on record to begin with since the gene seed modifications were the most far reaching since the 1st Founding and many were done under the Inquisition's orders) were promptly destroyed in the IoM's most turbulent time since the Heresy.

BluntmanDC wrote:I really don't see how this is logical:

A. Why does the Space Wolves has a secret unknown successor chapter, only the high lords order foundings.
B. Why would the Space Wolves recruit of world, an idea that goes against their beliefs, to recruit applicants they know will mutate and degrade.
C. Why would they go to all that effort (and waste of geneseed) when they could just recruit more Fenrisians.
D. If the High Lords knew about this, why would they then station this sleeping chapter under the Space Wolves control, new founding are placed where they are needed, Fenrisian space is very well defended already so it would be a massive waste of resources for little, if any gain (the High Lords may be a bit odd at times but they can do math).

How about:
A. If the High Lords didn't order it, that would seem like a good incentive to keep it secret...

B. The Wolf Lords noticed that incidents of mutation amongst Fenrisian recruits were increasing, and this was an experiment to try to fix the problem by finding another world with a compatible genetic structure. Or because an incursion by the Blaaarghians of the Ggobb'El'de-gouk Collective has left them severely depleted and also razed large chunks of the population centres of Fenris, leaving them unable to recruit at an acceptable rate to recover their losses. Or because they wanted to be able to set up a secondary base of operations, and recruiting from there would have been easier and (since the whole thing is supposed to be a secret) less noticable than large-scale ship-movement constantly ferrying troops back and forth between the two worlds.

C. See B.

D. See A.

The fluff is just a starting point. The only limit to where you can go with it is your own imagination. Part of the awesomness of the 40K background is that ultimately, pretty much anything goes.

insaniak wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:I really don't see how this is logical:

A. Why does the Space Wolves has a secret unknown successor chapter, only the high lords order foundings.
B. Why would the Space Wolves recruit of world, an idea that goes against their beliefs, to recruit applicants they know will mutate and degrade.
C. Why would they go to all that effort (and waste of geneseed) when they could just recruit more Fenrisians.
D. If the High Lords knew about this, why would they then station this sleeping chapter under the Space Wolves control, new founding are placed where they are needed, Fenrisian space is very well defended already so it would be a massive waste of resources for little, if any gain (the High Lords may be a bit odd at times but they can do math).

How about:
A. If the High Lords didn't order it, that would seem like a good incentive to keep it secret...

B. The Wolf Lords noticed that incidents of mutation amongst Fenrisian recruits were increasing, and this was an experiment to try to fix the problem by finding another world with a compatible genetic structure. Or because an incursion by the Blaaarghians of the Ggobb'El'de-gouk Collective has left them severely depleted and also razed large chunks of the population centres of Fenris, leaving them unable to recruit at an acceptable rate to recover their losses. Or because they wanted to be able to set up a secondary base of operations, and recruiting from there would have been easier and (since the whole thing is supposed to be a secret) less noticable than large-scale ship-movement constantly ferrying troops back and forth between the two worlds.

C. See B.

D. See A.

The fluff is just a starting point. The only limit to where you can go with it is your own imagination. Part of the awesomness of the 40K background is that ultimately, pretty much anything goes.

Apart from everything you have just said does not actually fit into the 40K Universe, part of the 'awesomness' of the 40K background is that it is actually relatively well detailed so what is the point in making up something that goes completely against the actual fluff of the game?

'Hi yer my Space Wolves force doesn't act like space wolves and come from an alternate reality were Fenris was nearly destroyed by alian invasion, to be honest i don't really see why i even bothered to say they were Space Wolves'.

'The only limit to where you can go with it is your own imagination' - the only limits are actually the ones set be the 40K universe as written.

Twenty-first Founding. There's your opening. GW itself says that "no-one knows how many Chapters were created during the so-called 'Cursed' Founding". There you go. Your Chpater are a 21st founding chapter, and anyone who says it's impossible is a monkey-humping donkey cave. And you can call them that to their face, too. After all, the worst they can do is refuse to play you (and if they won't play your SW successor chapter because it 'isn't fluff-friendly' you don't want to play them anyway!)

Well said squidhills. Part of the fluff and grweatness about 40, 000 is that, while a lot is documented and written for a fact, eg, the Emperor sits on a Golden Throne, Khorne is the Blood God, and the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines is Marneus calgar, a lot of it is lost, or inaccurate, or not metioned, so you can stretch things to fit.

See, dis iz why da umies is alwayz gettin' krumped by da orkses. Dey is so busy arguin over if dis guy be special nuff ta have iz own boyz or not, an if dis one gotz nuff shiny bobbles ta be in charge, dat da orkses can klobber da lot!

BluntmanDC wrote:Apart from everything you have just said does not actually fit into the 40K Universe, ...

How does it not fit?

...part of the 'awesomness' of the 40K background is that it is actually relatively well detailed so what is the point in making up something that goes completely against the actual fluff of the game?

What's the point of making up fluff about your army at all? Let's all just accept that they're just toy soldiers, and push them around the board making 'pew pew' noises...

'Hi yer my Space Wolves force doesn't act like space wolves and come from an alternate reality were Fenris was nearly destroyed by alian invasion, to be honest i don't really see why i even bothered to say they were Space Wolves'.

And the problem with that would be...?

If someone wants 'alternate universe' Space Wolves, why not? GW aren't going to kick down your door and drag your miniatures away because you're not using 'Chapter Approved' fluff.

'The only limit to where you can go with it is your own imagination' - the only limits are actually the ones set be the 40K universe as written.

You're perfectly entitled to stick to just the 'official' fluff if you choose. For most of us, though, it's exactly as I said. The fluff is just a starting point. It's setting the scene. What you do with it is entirely up to you... and you'll find that people have just as many interpretations of the fluff as they do of the rules.

Paint your army however you like, and use whatever codex you like to play them. There is exactly nobody out there who is going to be even remotely interested in your DIY fluff, so as long as it makes sense to you, you're golden.

It seems like people take the fluff so much more seriously than GW does. GW encourages creativity in its gamers, go right ahead and do what you want, they're your plastic men and not anybody elses.

Nephos wrote:Ill be using the official Space Wolves models just diff name and color. I am trying to point it out to them. I think these guys are just way to into the thing of being space wolves if you ask me

Yeah man, just use the space wolf and space marine models. People don't really mind the color, they just don't like people using say, chaos models for space wolves.

This is a nice article about Lost Companies, the Space Wolf version of successor chapters.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=178

Pretty sure this is why GW left the II and XI Space Marine Legions "missing" with "redacted" records -- so you can create your own fluff. Make whatever it is you want -- even if instead of wolves they're riding dinosaurs around.. who cares. People that "wouldn't play you because your SW are a different color" are ... not worth playing with, IMHO.

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