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Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes but the ability of splitting fire almost cripples the concept of MSU, as units with different weapons can target something else if part of the squad manage to kill an enemy unit. Orks get no benefit from the new rule as hitting on 5s doesn't probably worth the 1-3 rokkits upgrade in boyz mobs.

 Hades wrote:
Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

I don't see boyz moving slower than marines. I expect boyz moving 6" and MANz 5", like terminators.

And I agree if this is choppyhammer we will be advancing most of the time. For shoota boyz rokkits/big shootas will come handy, tho.

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

Ashkayel wrote:

 Hades wrote:
Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

I don't see boyz moving slower than marines. I expect boyz moving 6" and MANz 5", like terminators.

And I agree if this is choppyhammer we will be advancing most of the time. For shoota boyz rokkits/big shootas will come handy, tho.

Orks have been slower historically. And are slower in SWA.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

True. Also instant killing T4 seems to be gone, so no more picking off assassins with rockets to the face.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

True. Also instant killing T4 seems to be gone, so no more picking off assassins with rockets to the face.

You were hitting things with rokkits?

Just thought of something..... If LD is a bubble effect, that means we can mitigate bad moral rolls by having bosses dotted around the blob rather than needing them inside of the units to benefit from LD9

My big concern is if my warbosses can still hop in battlewagons along with some boyz. My TAC list is basically two battlewagons stuffed with boyz and warbosses Even if they're not part of the same squad, having a vehicle just for one independent character seems like a waste. I'm going so assume they'll have some mechanic to allow independent characters to ride in transports.

I'm also curious as to how this will affect painboys. Do they also give off a FNP bubble? If so, that will be fantastic. I know all we can really do is speculate at this point but it's just a few things on my mind.

MSU is still great vs battleshock.

I'm sure vehicles will allow you to embark one squad and as many IC's as fit in its capacity.

Heck, we might even get back measuring from the hull for bubble effects KFF back?!

 davou wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:

 Hades wrote:
Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

I don't see boyz moving slower than marines. I expect boyz moving 6" and MANz 5", like terminators.

And I agree if this is choppyhammer we will be advancing most of the time. For shoota boyz rokkits/big shootas will come handy, tho.

Orks have been slower historically. And are slower in SWA.

SstOp comparing to swa. Swa is designed to work with necro, it's another system. 8th and swa have very few if anything in common. We will see when it comes out. Bit I suspect 6in, guard will probably be 5in, but I doubt anything will be below 5in unless it's a vehicle/monster wound profile.

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

True. Also instant killing T4 seems to be gone, so no more picking off assassins with rockets to the face.

You were hitting things with rokkits?

Just thought of something..... If LD is a bubble effect, that means we can mitigate bad moral rolls by having bosses dotted around the blob rather than needing them inside of the units to benefit from LD9

Deffkoptas had a good chance with TL. Also small squads of tankbustas usually got 1 or 2 wounds.

About killing assassins with rokkits, rokkits may deal more than one wound (probably because GW is sick of ork players co-opting tankbustas into MEQ-exploding duty, and they can do so without nerfing tankbustas by making that an inefficient option) so it may still be viable.

I can't wait to see the deffguns and snuzzguns stats.

Yeah, snazzguns can have rending d3! And it wouldn't be as awful as current all-or-nothing d6.

I could imagine lootas remaining more or less the same. ap4 converts to rending -1.

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, snazzguns can have rending d3! And it wouldn't be as awful as current all-or-nothing d6.

I could imagine lootas remaining more or less the same. ap4 converts to rending -1.

Yea, lootas are about right, except pretty pricey for t-shirt armor. I'm hoping they at least get the opportunity for better armor...and maybe a discount.

Deffguns could potentially have damage 2 since they are a relatively high calibre weapon. Would somewhat compensate for our low BS. Please let lootas take gitfindas!

Kombi-Skorchas just got a lot more interesting, especially if they stay at 5 points on MANZ.

 JohnU wrote:
Kombi-Skorchas just got a lot more interesting, especially if they stay at 5 points on MANZ.

I highly doubt they will, I expect the price for kombi/combi-weapons to spike up considerably for all races given that it no longer is one shot for the underslung profile. I'm just imagining the sheer amount of dakka our units are going to have now that twin-linked doubles the amount of shots. Deffkoptas, Dakkajets, Warbuggies and our warbikers are going to be insane.

Yeah, in the unlikely event the Dakkajet keeps the Waaagh shooting rule, Yowza!

 Grimskul wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Kombi-Skorchas just got a lot more interesting, especially if they stay at 5 points on MANZ.

I highly doubt they will, I expect the price for kombi/combi-weapons to spike up considerably for all races given that it no longer is one shot for the underslung profile. I'm just imagining the sheer amount of dakka our units are going to have now that twin-linked doubles the amount of shots. Deffkoptas, Dakkajets, Warbuggies and our warbikers are going to be insane.

Are you saying we're... Doubling the dakka this edition? "Dakka Dakka", if you will?

Confirmed, Dakka did 8th Edition

Combi-skorchas would be good... combi anything else with a BS2... not really worth it.

Dakka jet stats... let's see those!

Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

On the other hand, outside of the troop slot you could put skorchas/burnas on everything and suddenly Orks have the most accurate shooting phase.

 JohnU wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

On the other hand, outside of the troop slot you could put skorchas/burnas on everything and suddenly Orks have the most accurate shooting phase.

Maybe...we don't know how the combi's will be distributed in the new "codex."

Can't wait to kill dreadnoughts with burna boys actually.

So with all the stuff so far, I've put together a list of the rule changes and how they would affect Orks.

So far, there are more things in general that help us, but units leaving combat and multiple overwatch are really big detriments, IMHO.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you think I put something in the wrong list.

Things helping Orks

- Balancing
- Removing Initiative
- Chargers go first
- Pile-in to other units
- Removing death stars
- Removing formations
- Walkers in general now "punch their weight"
- Vehicles gain armor
- Removed vehicle facing
- Dedicated Transports now usable by all units
- Removing vehicle damage table
- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed
- Shooting pistols in combat
- Variety of force org charts
- New AP system helps 6+ & 4+ armor
- Cover and armor stack

Things hurting Orks

- Units allowed to leave combat
- multiple overwatch
- Twin Linked converted to multiple shots
- Morale system hurts large units
- Split fire

Things neutral to Orks

- Characters not joining units
- Loss of templates

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

Every singe update so far has been an indirect nerf to orks, every singe update! From -1 to hit with heavy weapons to multiple overwatch to the way forner blast weapons now needs BS for every hit. It looks like orks will be even suckier than before.

 jhnbrg wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

Every singe update so far has been an indirect nerf to orks, every singe update! From -1 to hit with heavy weapons to multiple overwatch to the way forner blast weapons now needs BS for every hit. It looks like orks will be even suckier than before.

L

O

L.

Maybe they are a nerf to you, but they are not all nerfs to orks.

JimOnMars wrote:So with all the stuff so far, I've put together a list of the rule changes and how they would affect Orks.

So far, there are more things in general that help us, but units leaving combat and multiple overwatch are really big detriments, IMHO.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you think I put something in the wrong list.

Things helping Orks

- Balancing
- Removing Initiative
- Chargers go first
- Pile-in to other units
- Removing death stars
- Removing formations
- Vehicles gain armor
- Removed vehicle facing
- Removing vehicle damage table
- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed
- Shooting pistols in combat
- Variety of force org charts

Things hurting Orks

- Units allowed to leave combat
- multiple overwatch
- Twin Linked converted to multiple shots
- Morale system hurts large units

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units
- Loss of templates

On the subject of multiple overwatch - was this really a situation that came up for a lot of Ork players here? I very seldom charged a single unit with multiple units, and then very seldom failed to charge with the first unit to then follow up with the second. If you engage with your first charger, they don't still then get to shoot at subsequent chargers - that hasn't changed. The only change here is that now, if you try to eat an enemy unit's overwatch with your unit of grots, they actually have to SUCCEED at their charge to prevent other units from getting hit.

jhnbrg wrote:

Every singe update so far has been an indirect nerf to orks, every singe update! From -1 to hit with heavy weapons to multiple overwatch to the way forner blast weapons now needs BS for every hit. It looks like orks will be even suckier than before.

Can I ask how always hitting first on the charge is an indirect nerf to Orks?