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Smellingsalts wrote:
One of the major reasons I do not play this game is because I cannot pronounce the names of most of the units. They need to make it more consumer friendly.

Is this for real?

The answer to this is no, if it is.

I've definitely felt overwhelmed by the names in the past, but that's mostly a matter of trying to read statlines in Army without having any physical objects to attach them too. The names are really interesting and do a great job of keeping the world, well, worldly and I'd hate to get rid of them.

It might be nice to focus some of the names a bit though. For example, before I got into the lore, I had trouble with the units that reference their ship name. Corregidor Alguaciles for example wasn't super clear to me whether the unit was Corregidors or Alguaciles. I wouldn't hate to see that cleaned up, as I feel like its definitely more of a translation artifact.

I am just /smh seeing all these comments about basic math and reading being too difficult....perhaps this isn't the hobby you're looking for. Maybe people are just trolling idk....

I for one enjoy its complexity vs. other 'streamlined' skirmish games that have been watered down for the masses.

The names are well researched and fluff is written to match the ethnic backgrounds when possible. The names make sense when you actually read the background and fluff.

There's a difference between "complexity" and "bloat".

Infinity has some complexity to it, but it's also full of bloat thanks to nested skills.

Regarding the names? The issue tends to be that pronunciation does not come easily to everyone--and then there are the people who think they're pronouncing it correctly but are butchering the names that don't help things either.

I have a history of leaving games when they get too simplified for wider appeal, I don't want that for Infinity. It's complexity is the hook for me. I'm not saying the math is "too difficult," it's not. I'm just saying it could be slightly more intuitive to speed up gameplay slightly without subtracting anything from the internal balance. If folks are going to push back so hard against the idea then have it your way. It's really not a big deal, just an idea.

Smellingsalts wrote:
One of the major reasons I do not play this game is because I cannot pronounce the names of most of the units. They need to make it more consumer friendly.

Are you for real?
You're asking for one of the best things about Infinity/CB to be removed, because you're ignorant.

The way CB actually put some thought and research into their units and names with nods to cool but obscure (to outsiders) facts and history is awesome.
If my home country or culture was included in Infinity I would be stoked at the thought and detail; I would be disappointed if CB didn't use names and words from my language.

Also, Infinity is a game made by Spanish people for people across the whole world. What you in particular find easy to pronounce isn't easy for other people who play Infinity.
So for whom should it be easy to pronounce?
How about we respect the cultures of other people and put some effort in? Just make it a multicultural experience for everyone.

Getting hung up on model names is silly anyway. If you really want, you can just ignore their names. I usually do just that. Instead, the more relevant information is what weapons they have, along with their BS and any special rules. Since those things are shared by most factions, and easily referenced by looking at the Army printout, its really irrelevant if you don't know what that model is called.

It also helps that there is a huge amount of overlap between factions. Everybody shares the same weapons. A Sniper Rifle is a Sniper rifle no matter what faction its in. Furthermore, most factions have units that are functionally identical.

Almost everybody has a Combi-rifle munchkin for 10 points. And those who don't are still quite close.

Almost everybody's basic munchkins have the following profile combinations: Combi-rifle munchkin. HMG munchkin. Combi-rifle/Light Grenade Launcher munchkin. Combi-rifle/Hacker. Combi-rifle/Paramedic. Combi-rifle Forward Observer.

Almost everybody has an 8 point Flash-pulse robot.

There might be some minor stat differences, but you can simply remember that associated with the faction rather than a specific model. Like you can easily remember that most people's basic dudes are BS11. Except PanO who have BS12.


The names are just fluff bits that, after some immersion, you might begin to associate with the rules. But its easier to start out and look for patterns in statblocks and loadouts.

Also as others have pointed out, it is likely yhat you're mispronouncing some of the names you think you know.
What matters is being understood by the opponent, I know I probably won't ever get the yu-jing names right

The names are well researched and fluff is written to match the ethnic backgrounds when possible.

Except the fact that Yu Jing names are all spelled using some bizarre, XIX century imperial british system no one uses any more, and of course we are talking about the company that allegedly believed poles will be thrilled to have the Teutonic Knights as a "local representation" unit
CB's "historical research" is as deep as a highschooler's report, done exclusively via wikipedia. Which is fine, it's clearly just pop-history meant only to use cool names instead of "344th Infantry Regiment" or "51st Armored Company" that historical games would use.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
I know I probably won't ever get the yu-jing names right

In my experience, most people don't even get the faction name right

Cronch wrote:

Except the fact that Yu Jing names are all spelled using some bizarre, XIX century imperial british system no one uses any more

Whats bizarre about it? English, and indeed most Western languages, use phonetic word structures while Asian languages use Concept word structures. Thus, it makes sense to translate the sound of the word you are trying to show in English when translating it from a language that uses Concept structures. It's a good way of translating the sound, if imperfect.

It would make zero sense to use the Mandarin characters as the official name of the units since if you didn't read Mandarin you wouldn't have any way of telling the difference other than the statblock. While since most of the game's audience lives in a country that uses a derivative of the Latin alphabet and the sounds associated with the letters, they can at least get some sense of the sounds and then use those sounds to associate as the names of the units.

There are different ways to transcribe Chinese. CB decided to settle on one of the more inaccurate and old methods.

Cronch wrote:
There are different ways to transcribe Chinese. CB decided to settle on one of the more inaccurate and old methods.

So? We're not translating ancient Chinese literature here. We're making names for toy soldiers in a fictional future Chinese empire with a loose base in some Chinese phrases and sayings.

It's been a awhile since I saw such an obviously sarcastic post get this amoung of anger going.

^^^You don't get out much then.

Pronunciation is easy. There is no one correct pronunciation-- do you think all English speakers pronounce all words the same way?, so as long as you and your fellow players understand what you refer too, it's all good.

What info is coming out of Interplanetario this week-end? Y'know, news and rumors stuff?

 Grey Templar wrote:

Cronch wrote:
There are different ways to transcribe Chinese. CB decided to settle on one of the more inaccurate and old methods.

So? We're not translating ancient Chinese literature here. We're making names for toy soldiers in a fictional future Chinese empire with a loose base in some Chinese phrases and sayings.

People forget their game of toy soldiers is 'science fiction' and get tripped up on semantics, pseudo-history, and apparently adding and subtracting.

People should really give Darklands by Mierce minis a go before complaining about unit names. That IS the actual reason I've never tried that game.

My Devroblunderstibth will move here and attack your Manderanthalasatherabal Beast with his Goverblundester.

Cannibal wrote:Here's a simple improvement: Make armor saves successful on ties and just increase the damage of all weapons by one. That way the math for armor saves is more intuitive of quicker to calculate.

LunarSol wrote:

 Cannibal wrote:
Here's a simple improvement: Make armor saves successful on ties and just increase the damage of all weapons by one. That way the math for armor saves is more intuitive of quicker to calculate.

That is a good suggestion.

The maths for armour saves works if it were presented as a Normal Roll made by the firer to penetrate the armour (the damage is the target number, Armour is a negative modifier) and the penetration roll succeeds on the target number or less, like every other Normal Roll in the game. I suspect that’s how it was done initially, but it was changed at some point to give the target player something to do during the attack sequence - the same reason why saves in Warhammer and 40k are made after the Wound roll.


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 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a difference between "complexity" and "bloat".

Infinity has some complexity to it, but it's also full of bloat thanks to nested skills.

Regarding the names? The issue tends to be that pronunciation does not come easily to everyone--and then there are the people who think they're pronouncing it correctly but are butchering the names that don't help things either.

Unless I was talking to someone who actually is Chinese, then I don’t care if I mangle the pronunciation. I don’t bother with pronunciation guides in fantasy novels for the same reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Cronch wrote:
There are different ways to transcribe Chinese. CB decided to settle on one of the more inaccurate and old methods.

So? We're not translating ancient Chinese literature here. We're making names for toy soldiers in a fictional future Chinese empire with a loose base in some Chinese phrases and sayings.

Crunch’s post was a reply to a claim that the names are “well researched”. If they’re using a Romanisation method that’s out of date, it doesn’t promote the claims about the research. Although perhaps those transliteration are correct in Spain.

Personally my feeling is that if “Yu Jing” is supposed to be pronounced “You Cheeng” why not spell it that way?

Language evolves over time (See the great vowel shift of old English for an example. English changed dramatically after the Normans invaded England being another example.). In a couple centuries perhaps Chinese starts getting pronounced and spelled differently than it is today- especially after China effectively absorbs all the disparate cultures that make up Yu Jing. That's a good enough explanation for me to get on with the important things in life, like throwing fits over Haq Hassasins.

Since I am guessing this is a good place to ask, what are some suggestions whether with purchases, learning the rules, standard game sizes, etc... that you guys have for new players?

As the wife and I continue our skirmish liberation tour, post 40k/AoS we're thinking of giving Infinity a fair shot, but threads like this, for the uninformed, just feel impenetrable.

We're looking at buying Operation Wildfire purely assuming its a good start point, but are the rules really cryptic and spread between four books? Has point-size bloat hit where model counts for normal games have grown a ton?

Any good place to watch videos or learn about the state of the game right now?

The Operation packs are a great place to start, particularly if you then move on to the associated "Beyond" pack. The campaign in them does a good job of teaching the rules and by the end of the Beyond set gives you a 300 point army with a good mix of straightforward combat models and a few trickier pieces to learn some advanced rules. Honestly, the most important thing about them I've found is that they just give you a good base to learn from.

If possible, I'd avoid trying to learn the game from the rulebooks. It's an easier system to learn in stages, which the Operation books do a good job of providing. Alternatively, Corvus Belli has some solid tutorial videos to walk you through combat resolution and there are a number of solid tutorials on YouTube. Mostly though, its a game I think clicks better when you're seeing it on the table. Getting the rhythm of moving, letting your opponent declare reactions, then declaring your attacks makes all the complicated stuff make a lot more sense. I had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the game until I stopped trying to overthink it and just put models on the table. What you do is a lot simpler than the words required to describe it.

I'd avoid trying to learn the game from any non-Wildfire box, frankly.

With a new edition announced as well? Just find some models you like, play the QSRs out of the box and wait.

TLDR. I've been getting the infinity itch (booked my Doc's appointment) but a friend mentioned something about N4. They can't be bringing out a be edition already can they?

Sounds like a plan. The Wildfire models and factions aren't my favorite, but it does sound like where we will start.

So lets say we get it from Miniature Market... am I crazy in thinking I don't see anything called "Beyond Wildfire" up for order?

Do we need anything else in terms of books, movement tools, etc...?

I hear there's also a game akin to OG Warhammer Quest on its way?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Sounds like a plan. The Wildfire models and factions aren't my favorite, but it does sound like where we will start.

So lets say we get it from Miniature Market... am I crazy in thinking I don't see anything called "Beyond Wildfire" up for order?

It's not up yet.

Basically, CB has and always will be:
"X month is when it goes up for order, it comes out the next month". It's supposed to go up in October/November-ish.

Do we need anything else in terms of books, movement tools, etc...?

Basically everything you'll need is either online or in the booklet. The booklet will show you the faction profiles and that's about it.

I hear there's also a game akin to OG Warhammer Quest on its way?

It's kickstarter fodder. Avoid.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Sounds like a plan. The Wildfire models and factions aren't my favorite, but it does sound like where we will start.

If you don't like the Wildfire models, check to see if the other three operation boxes have something you like better:
Operation Icestorm (PanO vs Nomads)
Operation Red Veil (Yu Jing vs Haqqislam)
Operation Coldfront (ALEPH vs Ariadna)

They are all excellent starter sets that should roughly cover the same material (they even have their own Beyond boxes as well). Wildfire has improved cardboard terrain and thicker tokens/templates, but really, just choose the box with the models you like the most.

So lets say we get it from Miniature Market... am I crazy in thinking I don't see anything called "Beyond Wildfire" up for order?

Usually shows up a few months after the Operation box gets released. They release these things at the same time every year, so my Beyond Coldfront preorder was made November of last year, probably shipped by early December.

Do we need anything else in terms of books, movement tools, etc...?

All in the box, except the full game rules, which are available as free PDFs online.

I hear there's also a game akin to OG Warhammer Quest on its way?

Defiance. They are running a kickstarter at some point in the near future for it. Don't know when the release timeframe is, but they are already including Defiance cards in Wildfire and the GenCon Valkyrie blister.

Interesting. OG Warhammer Quest, along with Mordheim are some of our all-time favorite gaming experiences. I could see myself incredibly interested depending on the execution.

I ended up ordering Wildfire and the "Advance Pack" which seems to be releasing concurrently, and has models for the same factions. Seemed like it was intended to be a companion product, and i'm down for Robo-Doggo.

Advance Pack is early release of two units.

Isn't that just... a release? :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Isn't that just... a release? :-p

Never understood it, myself, but it appears to be a limited release that has models that won't appear for several months. Kind of a GenCon bonus offer. Also, the models will be sold separately, and I'm not sure about this, but potentially more expensive if bought separately.