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Is it because I should be AP1, or a different reason?

Discuss.

What is your rules question?

This is YMTC, 40k general discussion is that way

I
I
I
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V

Low BS.

Look at Predator for example, TL for the main cannon
and gets 2 lascannon sponson.

and BS4

Too expensive for it's 1 shot/turn at a BS of 3 unless you take pask ... and than thats way too many points ...

That does seem a bit odd.

Don't feel to bad, you still have the best tanks for the points and you can take them in squads... I'd love to have predator squads for the marines.

And I would love to have a squad of Fire Prisms. Huzzah! 3 FP as 1 Heavy choice, 3 Falcons as a second, and something else for the third...

Happyjew wrote:And I would love to have a squad of Fire Prisms. Huzzah! 3 FP as 1 Heavy choice, 3 Falcons as a second, and something else for the third...

Agreed, even the threat of the eldar getting entries like this serve as a reminder only the guard get to do it because it is fluffy . Eldar it would be OP, sickening and wrong. Gimme

Too expensive for it's 1 shot/turn at a BS of 3 unless you take pask ... and than thats way too many points ...

Oh look, 4+ cover!

LRBT VS Vanquisher


Leman Russ
Pros

Large Blast
Same Strength
Ordnance
Same Range
Low BS is null due to Large Area of Effect
Can effect Multiple Models

Cons

+1 AP
Due to being only Str 8 Ordnance, cannot penetrate AV14
AP3 allows FNP


Leman Russ Vanquisher

Pros

Rolls 2D6 for penetration
Can penetrate AV 14(exccept models with Living Metal, eg, Monolithes and Land Raider Achilles)
-1AP, so ignores all armour and FNP
Vanquisher Cannon isn't Ordnance, so it can fire other weapons.

Cons

Same Range as the LRBT
no blast
Can only hurt 1 model at a time
AP2 means it doesn't get +1 to damage chart
BS3 meamns it will only hit 1/2 of the time, so that is an average of 3 hits per game.

I bet more people would take it if it was BS4.

There are a couple of reasons why people don't take it.

First of all, IG is not hurting for ways to hurt heavy armor. Most things that are AV14 are going to be coming towards you (Land Raiders, Battlewagons) and your plethora of meltaguns that you should have will take care of them. Monoliths, as you said, can't be meaningfully hurt by the Vanquisher. For any other vehicles, we have ways of getting tons of lascannons, autocannons, even multilasers for transports, and we can get these all for cheap and in troop slots.

That leads us to the second reason why people don't take Vanquishers, and that is the crowded heavy support slot. Vanquishers just can't compete here. Why take one when you could take a Manticore for almost the same points, which is just as much if not more of a threat to high AV at range (and can actually pop a Monolith), AND can decimate horde infantry? Why take a Vanquisher against a player with lots of light armor (DE, Razorspam) when you could take two Hydras for the same points and do more? Even a few of the other Russ variants have more utility and are more reliable than the Vanquisher.

The thing is, it isn't a bad tank, but it fills a role we don't need filled, in a slot we already have filled.

Manticore, or even a Medusa cand do better against vehicles. Both are also better against infantry.

lledwey wrote:
The thing is, it isn't a bad tank, but it fills a role we don't need filled, in a slot we already have filled.

Well, actually it fills a role we don't need filled, in a slot we already have filled AND it is a horrible tank

The tank is pretty much just bad at its job. Other tanks do the same thing better.

1 bs3 shot just isn't good, even if the shot was strengrh 10. A manticore puts out d3 strength 10 pieplates.

Also, I can't think of many things that have feel no pain and are legitimately toughness 5 or higher. There are a few, but the battlecannon will take care of most things with feel no pain because it's strength 8.

Also, I don't see how the vanquisher cannon not being ordnance is an advantage. Because of lumbering behemoth, it doesn't matter if the turret is ordnance or not.

Deadshot wrote:Leman Russ

Cons

AP3 allows FNP

Actually, the strength 8 negates FnP on models that are toughness 4 or lower. ID negates FnP.

Yeah If Imperial Guard weren't the only race to get multiple tanks per Heavy choice, they wouldn't even be scary.

9 Thunderfire Cannons . . . you MAD bro?




Anyway, Vanquishers as said before don't do anything that something else in the IG dex' can do better.

AchillesFTW wrote:Yeah If Imperial Guard weren't the only race to get multiple tanks per Heavy choice, they wouldn't even be scary.

9 Thunderfire Cannons . . . you MAD bro?




Anyway, Vanquishers as said before don't do anything that something else in the IG dex' can do better.

9 Thunderfires would be something i would want IF I could actually take it.

There are monstrous creatures in Tyranids that can have fnp. Destoryers (for now) are legitimately toughness 5. Dark eldar can take their version of ogryns and give them power from pain.

That's at least 3 units that would get fnp/wbb against the leman russ.

scuddman wrote:There are monstrous creatures in Tyranids that can have fnp. Destoryers (for now) are legitimately toughness 5. Dark eldar can take their version of ogryns and give them power from pain.

That's at least 3 units that would get fnp/wbb against the leman russ.

Well, the Executioner is still my fav

I've always seen the Vanquisher as more of an Apocalypse kinda tank along with the Death Strike. I could see the Vanquisher with its long range and 2d6 pen giving some hurt to super heavies and the like. On that note, imagine a Tank Company formation of 9 Vanquishers all firing at a Titan or Gargant. Fun times.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I've always seen the Vanquisher as more of an Apocalypse kinda tank along with the Death Strike. I could see the Vanquisher with its long range and 2d6 pen giving some hurt to super heavies and the like. On that note, imagine a Tank Company formation of 9 Vanquishers all firing at a Titan or Gargant. Fun times.

Yep

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I've always seen the Vanquisher as more of an Apocalypse kinda tank along with the Death Strike. I could see the Vanquisher with its long range and 2d6 pen giving some hurt to super heavies and the like. On that note, imagine a Tank Company formation of 9 Vanquishers all firing at a Titan or Gargant. Fun times.

Battle Tanks have the same range, though I see the point.

I bet if it was changed a bit, more people would take them.

Make it AP1 and there will actually be reasons to take it.
Or give it two firing modes.

The vanquisher got toned down from it's FW days. It still can have a use in an armored company list.

Toned down from it's 3rd Ed guard codex too.

What was it like before?

forruner_mercy wrote:What was it like before?

It could do everything it does now AND fire the normal Russ round.

Oh, and had a Co-Axial Storm Bolter(although back then, that just meant Pintle-Mounted).

Platuan4th wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:What was it like before?

It could do everything it does now AND fire the normal Russ round.

Oh, and had a Co-Axial Storm Bolter(although back then, that just meant Pintle-Mounted).

More choices is good.

forruner_mercy wrote:I bet if it was changed a bit, more people would take them.

Same thing is said about the FlashGits in Codex Orks. A few very minor tweaks and they would be a powerhouse