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K guys, take in everything into consideration, there is no right or wrong answer.
I just like to see an over all opinion on how people view these count as models.
Afaik the base sizes are correct. Maybe on a scale of 1/10 rate how convincing will they be with a new opponent.

Beastman Bestigor as Warrior of Chaos Chosen ( with great weapons )
Beastman Gor as Warrior of Chaos Marauder ( hand weapon and shield )

Chaos Hound of Khorne as Lizardmen Salamander.

Bretonnian Men at Arms as Empire Halbadier Archers as Archers

Beastman Doom Bull as Ogre Kingdom Tyrant , Beastman Minotaur as Maneater with Great weapons.

Daemon Blood Letters as Chaos Warrior with Great weapon

Daemonette as Chaos Warrior with 2 hand weapons

Now we move to 40K

Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard as MEQ assault squad with jump pack.
Blood Angels Death Company as MEQ Veterans / Sternguards.
Blood Angels Baal Predator ( turret only ) as TL Ass Canon Razorback

Grey Knight Dread Knight ( demon hammer and psy cannon ) as MEQ Ironclad with Seismeic Hammer and Hurricane Bolter

Thanks for Input.

NO: to Blood Letter and Daemonettes.

YES to the rest.

However, given the TLOS issues with the Dreadknight, you may find you are at a disadvantage.

Now, to address your other problem, a first-time opponent may prefer a more stringent WYSIWYG representation. Amongst your regular circle/buddies, should be no probs.

At a tournament, definitely NOT.

What if the gears for WYSIWYG is exactly the same, and only difference is the model from other faction

In a pick up game sure. In a tourney no way, I bought my models of one faction don't count as another unless they are heavly converted.

LunaHound wrote:What if the gears for WYSIWYG is exactly the same, and only difference is the model from other faction

Now you are just trying to be cheap.

Oh, and I missed this:

"Bretonnian Men at Arms as Empire Halbadier Archers as Archers "

WTF?

AvatarForm wrote:

LunaHound wrote:What if the gears for WYSIWYG is exactly the same, and only difference is the model from other faction

Now you are just trying to be cheap.

Oh, and I missed this:

"Bretonnian Men at Arms as Empire Halbadier Archers as Archers "

WTF?

Bretonnian Men at Arms ( with halberds ) as Empire Halbadiers. Bretonnian Archers as Empire Archers

A couple of them seem kinda... lazy IMHO.

Chaos Hounds as a Salamander? Nope.

Daemons as Chaos Warriors? No either.

I mean, ultimately it's your call, but I don't feel like these models make accurate representations.

Hehe im trying to get into Empire without using Empire models wearing tights and frilly shoulders :'P

The Beastman stuff im trying to get the old Chaos "feel"
when they had all 3 factions under 1 flag.

Honestly, I don't think that any of these are good swaps. They are all from established lines that everyone who plays the games knows and could easily misconstrue as something that they are not. Its one thing to take a minotaur from another line and use it as a minotaur in this game. Its another thing though when you are taking one armies models and trying to say they are another. I believe that to many people would be confused over this.

There’s a difference between saying ‘All my Lascannons are actually Missile Launchers’ because you’ve yet to finish building/painting your Missile Launchers and saying ‘All my Blood Letters are actually Orks’.

The former would annoy me because this isn’t 2nd Ed 40K anymore and getting heavy and special weapons isn’t as hard as it once was, but I could live with it for practicality reasons. The latter I wouldn’t play against. Beastmen aren’t Chaos Warriors, they’re Beastmen. If you want a Chaos Warriors, get some Chaos Warriors. I don’t use Space Marines as Eldar Guardians.

The exception to this would be if something is converted to convey something different. For example I’ve long had the idea of doing a Tyranid army using Guard models, but it wouldn’t be a case of 30 Guardsmen w/Lasguns = 30 Termagants w/Fleshborers. Instead it would be more a case of modelling 30 Guardsmen with long blades running forward in all sorts of wild poses to represent Hormagaunts, having converted Sentinels with blades and kit-based weapons to represent Carnifexes and so on.

I don't see anything wrong with using bretonnian models as empire. As long as your opponent knows what he/she is facing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't see anything wrong with using bretonnian models as empire. As long as your opponent knows what he/she is facing.

Clthomps wrote:In a pick up game sure. In a tourney no way, I bought my models of one faction don't count as another unless they are heavly converted.

For the most part i agree, M@A != Halbadieers. Beastmen != Woc. The only thing i do not care about is the different space marines. A space marine is a space marine.

I thought that, too, OBC- however, I think the OP might've meant them standing in for veteran guardsmen, or something... but I could be wrong.

Using a Death Company marine as a veteran marine wouldn't even be a "counts as"... but a lot of the others are pretty far out there, imo.

IDK, a death company marine could be a veteran marine. Just repaint them. They are both ornate. Imo they look similar.

That's what I meant . "Wouldn't even be counts as"... meaning they're both marines, it's not counting as anything! (As you say, it's all in the paintjob in that case)

Why would anyone ever counts as blood angels into vanilla marines? The books are strikingly similar except half the BA book is both cheaper and better.

ShumaGorath wrote:Why would anyone ever counts as blood angels into vanilla marines? The books are strikingly similar except half the BA book is both cheaper and better.

Oh i dont really care about how weak the army book is.

I just want a Space Marine army with all the best looking models made to date ( even if its from different factions )

LunaHound wrote:
K guys, take in everything into consideration, there is no right or wrong answer.
I just like to see an over all opinion on how people view these count as models.
Afaik the base sizes are correct. Maybe on a scale of 1/10 rate how convincing will they be with a new opponent.

Now we move to 40K

1) Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard as MEQ assault squad with jump pack.
2) Blood Angels Death Company as MEQ Veterans / Sternguards.
3) Blood Angels Baal Predator ( turret only ) as TL Ass Canon Razorback

4) Grey Knight Dread Knight ( demon hammer and psy cannon ) as MEQ Ironclad with Seismeic Hammer and Hurricane Bolter

Thanks for Input.

I took out the WHFB stuff as I don't play that and am only moderately familiar with the minis released in the past 8 years or so. As for the 40k stuff...

1) Fine with me as long as you're not playing Blood Angels and converted their weapons from power swords and funky wrist boltguns to chainswords and bolt pistols. If you're playing BA with them, I'd be prefer that you didn't paint them metallic and instead used whatever normal scheme your army would have in addition to the above.

2) No problem there as long as they weren't painted as Death Company and had the appropriate and legal WYSIWIG loadouts.

3) If you're not playing BA, no problem with that at all. If you ARE playing BA, I'd probably still be fine with it if you ALWAYS used it as a razorback and NEVER as a baal. I've got a friend who always uses a dread in some configuration, either DA normal, DA normal + venerable upgrade, or true forgeworld venerable Imperial Armour rules (which match the 5th edition ven dread rules but are allowed in DA). Every game I have to ask him just how venerable his dread is as he's using a standard model.

4) No. The dreadknight is twice as tall on twice the size base, making it 4x the hassle.

I can’t comment on the Fantasy proxies as I’m not too familiar with the models or rules but I can comment on the 40k stuff. As said before, a Space Marine is a Space Marine and people have been kitbashing/converting/hot swapping SM stuff for years. More below:

1. The Sanguinary Guard make good assault squad miniatures as long as either the storm bolters have been removed or the opponent is aware they are proxying bolt pistols.
2. Deathcompany make really good Veterans. The belt fed bolter bits make good Sternguard and the Jump pack/CC bits make good vanguard. I would file off the blood drops if you’re going to use them in a non BA army (assuming they’re not already assembled/painted).
3. All Predators look alike IMO and I see no problem with this proxy.
4. See no problem with this being used as an Iron Clad. Assuming the kit hasn’t been built, it would make a great “rule of cool” type conversion.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with any of the 40k proxies, as long as the opponent knows and understands what they are facing.

The fantasy, if you were facing someone like me, i wouldn't mind you using dwarfs as deamons, as long as it was or a valid reason, such as trying out lists before buying the models or the models aren't ready. If you were just being lazy and using them as "Dwarf deamons" I wouldn't play you, or at least not for long

LazzurusMan

I'd have no problem withn all of them apart from sang guard cause it's hard to tell the sargent from the rest iirc and the dreadknight cause I'd have an advantage.


Also lol at some of the answers, I do like me some irationality.

Yes for using Gor as Chaos Marauders, but I don't think Bestigor really suit Chosen...

Flesh hounds of Khorne might be 'okay' for salamanders, but thats really up to you.
I think using Bretonnian Men at Arms as Empire troops is absolutely fine and visa versa providing that they have the appropriate weapons.
Beastmen as ogres sounds good and you shouldn't really have a problem with that (they look similar enough IMHO)

I will however say no to the Daemons mainly because they look nothing like Warriors of Chaos :/

As for 40k all of those look fine (yeah you would need to make the Sang Guard Sgt. look a bit different), and yeah I wouldn't really classify the Death Co. as a count-as either. But I do agree with the comment about the Dreadknight/naught and you may be screwing yourself when it comes to TLOS.

Overall though it's up to you and who you play with. Some people (like myself) would be cool with it, others might not.

Yes to all except the last due to size differences. Of course for a lot of them it would be better if some effort was put into even a minor conversion for them.

I'm not too keen on the daemons as warriors as they don't have armor and would be very confusing. The Bestigors and Gors in the same army as completely different things might be confusing unless you armor up the Bestigors quite a bit.

Everything else seems just fine.

LunaHound wrote:
Now we move to 40K

Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard as MEQ assault squad with jump pack.
Blood Angels Death Company as MEQ Veterans / Sternguards.
Blood Angels Baal Predator ( turret only ) as TL Ass Canon Razorback

Grey Knight Dread Knight ( demon hammer and psy cannon ) as MEQ Ironclad with Seismeic Hammer and Hurricane Bolter

Thanks for Input.

I can't speak to the fantasy stuff.

But I don't have a problem with these.


Edit: Didn't think about the base on the Dread Knight. I would have a problem with that. I don't care about the height of the model, really. Just the base.

I'm ok with some of those. The Brets as Empire, sure. I like the models better anyway, and it's still a WYSIWYG since they're armed the same. The Flesh Hounds as Salamanders I'm also ok with, because I think the Salamander models are hideous and the Flesh Hounds look like lizards anyway. I'm not sure I'd be ok with the Minotaurs as Ogres, unless some significant conversion was done to them, and I would definitely not be ok with Daemons as Chaos Warriors because they don't even remotely look like they have armor on. If you were to put Bloodletter heads on Chaos Warrior bodies, I could see it, but no just a straight swap for the models.
Your 40k stuff seems more reasonable, although I think it might seem a little overboard for the Sanguinary Guard to represent regular Assault Marines. The issues I do have with this is that there is a certain psychological component to the game, and the models are supposed to represent how powerful the model is on the board. Even if you tell someone that those are just Assault Marines, they're still seeing Sanguinary Guard and it will affect the way they treat them in the game. I've seen this before because I use all Forgeworld Greater Daemons. When I put down the Forgeworld Bloodthirster, he attracts a great deal more attention than he really should. I even did an experiment back in 7th Edition of Fantasy, when you could bring two Greater Daemons in a 3000pt list. I brought my FW Bloodthirster, and a regular GW Bloodthirster in a local tournament, and every single game the FW drew the most fire and had more units avoiding it, even when it would put them into a position to be charged by Bloodcrushers or the other Bloodthirster.
There is a thin line between conversion or substitution for coolness' sake (as in the case of the Brets for Empire or the Flesh Hounds for Salamanders) and warping the gameplay (such as the Dreadknight for a Ironclad or Sanguinary Guard for Assault Marines.) I would suggest taking a step back an looking at it from your opponent's perspective to determine whether you should or shouldn't do it.

For me, part of the fun is the background. If my opponent mixes different armies, it is confusing and harming the total atmosphere for me. Sometimes you have to compromise, but it reduces the fun for me.

I would have no problem with any of these.

The rules for the game segregating models by codex does not preclude you from using whatever models you want.

If you want to run your Marines as Necrons (Landraiders = Monolith; Assault Marines = Destroyers), then I don't see any problem, as long as your opponent is aware of how everything corresponds.

Ultimately, the models are separate from the game as they're simply present to act as wound counters and spacial representations of where models are located on the battlefield.

I wanted to ask here first for opinion instead of using my opponents as guinea pigs :'P

Speaking only to your 40K stuff, I wouldn't have a problem with any of it, save for the different base size on the dreadknight vs dreadnought.