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I have personally tried & tested the well known melta-vet chimera spam style of list, with some vendettas and str10 pies mixed in and I know it is very competative.

I have posted a thread on infantry-only IG armies. I nearly liked the idea of one of those.

Now my question is, what would be the most effective, effecient and deadly long-ranged shooty-guard army. You'd need weapons to tackle all situations from hordes to AV14 (Take-all-comers list) and it should ideally be long-ranged, as the prominent theme.

Gratz

I've had good success with this sort of thing:

CCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, Astro, Chimera
CCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, OotF, Chimera

Vendetta
Vendetta

PCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera

PCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera

Manticore
Manticore

That should be about 2k, and at that points level it puts out a pretty disgusting amount of firepower. It only get worse as the points go up.

How good is the chimera as a autocannon stationary boat? Would it not be better to field another 10man PIS with an autocannon with sprinkles of HWS's. But then ofc you run the risk of needing a regimental banner/lord commissar to support the weakling foot soliders. Hmm

What about dual leman russ squadrens? One pie generally won't annhilate a squad and the same goes for vehicle; my point being two shots at one target isn't overkill? Lastly, fan of the dakka, dual or triple hydra squadrens? Vendettas are a must, I agree.

Do you need meltas at all - can you outsource the roles meltas fill to more long ranged units? Could a pair of devildogs suffice?

Man, that's alot of chimeras to paint

odorofdeath wrote:I've had good success with this sort of thing:

CCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, Astro, Chimera
CCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, OotF, Chimera

Vendetta
Vendetta

PCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera

PCS - 3 Melta, Flamer, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera
PIS - Autocannon, Chimera

Manticore
Manticore

That should be about 2k, and at that points level it puts out a pretty disgusting amount of firepower. It only get worse as the points go up.

that's 6 BS4 meltas and 6 BS 3 meltas, plus up to three twin linked BS3 lascannons.
They're the ONLY things you have that will penetrate power armour.

Ahen. Joey - Anything to contribute?

9 leman russes, a couple of meltavets with chimera and a CCS with MOO.

Joey wrote:9 leman russes, a couple of meltavets with chimera and a CCS with MOO.

Is not competitive or take-all-comers. Not enough points in troops, at anything under a 2k army.

Don't need troops when you have...
NINE. LEMAN. RUSSES.

9 Vemdeetta

9 Hydra Flak Tankl

Rest of point in Melta Vets in Chimera with 2x heavy flamer

In response to Joey, courtesy of Stelek:

CCS - Flamer, Meltagun x3, OotF, Chimera

PCS - Flamer, Meltagun x3, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera

PCS - Flamer, Meltagun x3, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera

PCS - Flamer, Meltagun x3, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera

PCS - Flamer, Meltagun x3, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera

PCS - Flamer, Meltagun x3, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera
PIS - Meltagun, Chimera

2500 points. 21 Chimeras. 186 dudemens. Have fun!

That's an insane amount of chimeras.
I'd get rid of a platoon for a few hydras, but for pure infantry win you can't beat that.

Lets keep it between 1500pt-2000pts. The game becomes IMBA beyond that.

Plus I don't think the troop-choices are the most efficient way to field long-ranged firepower en-mass. It certainly scales well - but what would be an effective amount of troops (i.e enough not to loose) that have good range?

go for an all veteran army for half a dozen AP4 heavy weapons teams if you want long range infantry.
edit: in fact I just bashed this out:
CCS-50
veteran squad with lascannon (90)*5
veteran squad with autocannon(80)*5
Leman Russ with lascannon-165*3
total-1495.
You could swap a few autocannons for lascannons too if you want (take the points away from LR lascannon), which I would personally do.
That's 105 troops, 5 BS4 lascannons, 5 BS4 autocannons, 3BS3 lascannons and three leman russes.

Joey wrote:go for an all veteran army for half a dozen AP4 heavy weapons teams if you want long range infantry.

That's the answering exactly the apposite of the post I just posted. Minimal troops, not an entire army of it.

Then I'd suggest you get as many Leman Russes as points allow.

Vets w/lascannon inside chimeras? Something I plan on trying out once I start building my force. You could stick meltas/plasmas on them to your liking and sit back and blast away with lascannons. Plenty of range, and good chance against more vehicles, anything AV14 you can just mass lascannon them. And if anything gets close, you can blast with meltas/lasguns.

One thing i always watch out for ( when i choose to take melta vets or lascannon hwyteams )

Even though gunline have a longer range, they also have to be deployed early to take advantage of their extra range.
They also takes up tons more space. and leaves almost no room for maneuver till you are out of the deployment zone mess.

Which makes them incredibly susceptible to any fast moving transports.

For example, when i play against IG, i plop a forest right infront of their deployment zone. And i would use that for LOS block and ran right into the heart of the gunline deployment.
Before you know it, the CC blocks everything else, pretty soon my opponent cant shoot at anything and can only attempt to pull back to shoot me when i killed units in CC. Assault type units in Chimeras have less problem.

Oi, so much to learn about IG.......cant I just keep using my Orks? Im at least good with them

I learned from it the hard way ( when i lose with my IG xD )

Thats the best way to learn though. You know how many beatings my boyz took before we figured it out? I lost count

Nothing says long range like a basilisk. I've always wanted to set up the artillery on another table, about 12 feet away and say "Ok, this is my rear support area." Anyway, a veteran squad and a platoon with missle launchers or lascanon will have some range, then some arty batts of bassies and griffons. Mix them, so you can get max cheese from the griffons accurate bombardment rule. I also suggest you take at least one LR. You need some av14 to hide behind. Manticores are nice too if you don't like basilisk/griffon combo. Sentinels can also be worked in for rear area security and can have some range. If you use the armored company rules and make this a mec force, you can give the arty the slick loader(think that's the name) skill and serve pie like a mad man.

This is what I run:

CCS w/ 2x Melta, Astropath, Chimera 155
CCS w/ 2x Melta, Chimera 125

5x Stormtroopers w/ 2x Melta, Chimera 160
5x Stormtroopers w/ 2x Melta, Chimera 160

Infantry Platoon 410
PCS w/ 3x Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
SWS w/ 3x Melta

Infantry Platoon 410
PCS w/ 3x Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
SWS w/ 3x Melta

Veterans w/ 3x Melta, Shotguns, Chimera 155
Veterans w/ 3x Melta, Shotguns, Chimera 155

Armoured Sentinel w/ Autocannon 60
Armoured Sentinel w/ Autocannon 60

Hydra Flak Cannon w/ Heavy Bolter 75
Hydra Flak Cannon w/ Heavy Bolter 75

Total: 2000

12 Chimeras, 16 AV14 Hulls, lots of shooting (albeit not the best in game) coming out of everything, and losing units doesn't have the significant impact that you run from having Vendettas/Manticores having to be your entire workforce.

Description here:
http://fearspect.blogspot.com/2011/09/onslaught-2011-army-list.html

Fearspect wrote:This is what I run:

CCS w/ 2x Melta, Astropath, Chimera 155
CCS w/ 2x Melta, Chimera 125

5x Stormtroopers w/ 2x Melta, Chimera 160
5x Stormtroopers w/ 2x Melta, Chimera 160

Infantry Platoon 410
PCS w/ 3x Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
SWS w/ 3x Melta

Infantry Platoon 410
PCS w/ 3x Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
Infantry Squad w/ Melta, Chimera
SWS w/ 3x Melta

Veterans w/ 3x Melta, Shotguns, Chimera 155
Veterans w/ 3x Melta, Shotguns, Chimera 155

Armoured Sentinel w/ Autocannon 60
Armoured Sentinel w/ Autocannon 60

Hydra Flak Cannon w/ Heavy Bolter 75
Hydra Flak Cannon w/ Heavy Bolter 75

Total: 2000

12 Chimeras, 16 AV14 Hulls, lots of shooting (albeit not the best in game) coming out of everything, and losing units doesn't have the significant impact that you run from having Vendettas/Manticores having to be your entire workforce.

Description here:
http://fearspect.blogspot.com/2011/09/onslaught-2011-army-list.html

I think you mean 16 av12 hulls...6 wasted special weapons slots....A ton of wasted points...And not really long range at all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway,, on topic.. Most effective long range shooting? The guard codex gives you so many options in every slot . There are a ton of lists. Just take your pick from some of the long range options...

Manticores, Hydras, Griffons, vanilla, LRBTs, Vendettas, Scout Walkers with ac/las, vets with las. I'd even include stormies as you can infiltrate/outflank/deepstrike as the situation dictates. Sub melta ccs for a ccs with las. Still, I think that mobility and assault weapons are better than static with heavy weapons. Alas, the threat is not about this side. Whatever you choose just be sure your slot choices and weapon loadouts complement eachother.

Okay - I'll be more concise.

What is the best long-ranged shooty unit in the troop choices? I agree, the rest of the codex offers some no brainers but I find myself stumbling on the troops.

Platoon with 5 squads is always fun.
Merged into 1 squad with a commisar and a comm-link gives leadership 9 re-rolls for orders, for 250+30+5 points.
That's 150 shots :O obviously not all will be in range but assuming they are that's
75 hits.
25 wounds (on MEQ)
against a squad of ten that'd give 5 guys 3 armour saves, 5 guys two armour saves. That works out with my dodgy maths at a wound each for five of them, and a 66% chance of a wound on 5 of them. Basically 8 casualties.
Not bad for a 285 point unit! And of course it's incredibly difficult to wipe out with 51 men, Ld 9 and stubborn.

Troop wise? Imo IG troops tend to suffer pretty badly when it comes to long range support besides chimeras

Lets look at all the weapons troops can have that go beyond 24"

Sniper Rifle: The only long range special weapon for IG. Its a sniper rifle so it doesnt do anything really special. If Ratlings with BS4 and stealth dont really do much, it'll do even less with normal guardsmen

Mortar: Pretty weak weapon, never use this unless you absolutely have nothing better to do with a squad. This is though the cheapest way to field HWS if you just want more scoring units. For 300 points you can drop down 15 small blasts, pretty hilarious but even then you cant hurt armor and most enemies will shrug off the poor AP6.

Heavy Bolter: Same cost as autocannon and while boasts an extra shot, it has less range and strength. Dont really need to take this seeing that every single vehicle in the IG range can take HB or Multilasers unless you really like the looks of machine guns.

Autocannon: The all rounder and probably the most popular. It has two S7 shots that can wound marines well and make most transports quiver in fear. Decent choice, a common one for HWS but then the HWS will cost as much as a Hydra without the armor or range.

Missile Launcher: Another all rounder but seen less frequently because it costs quite a bit. While multi purpose, it can rack up the costs of a squad while still at a measly BS3

Lascannon: The big one, the long range tank killer. Unfortunately this is the most expensive option and with a BS3 on most models, its not going to be terrible reliable compared to the cheap as chips vendetta.

The main issue with these weapons is that

1. On normal squads and vet squads, they severely hamper their movement. This also leads to-
2. Their shots, if aimed at tanks or far away units, causes the lasguns and short range specials are pretty much wasted
3. HWS are not terribly reliable when it comes to hitting and leadership without lord commissars.

Only really decent option for long range is either plasma vets who are dead set on camping an objective or a big arse blob platoon armed to the teeth with a command and commissar.

This comes down to the whole quanity vs quality (ie platoons vs vets) and static vs mobile debates. Personally I think that quality and mobile win hands down. That being said, I don't think that taking long range options (ie heavy weapons) detracts that much from a mobile and dynamic strategy. That and the 55 point chimera is arguably the best buy in the codex. Here again, take whatever you want just be sure that it complements your other choices. The only thing to remember is to KEEP IT CHEAP and USE YOUR SPECIAL WEAPON SLOTS. Some of my favorite vet loadouts, all in chimeras, ofcourse:

-3gl, ml (100 pts)
-3gl, ml, pp (110 pts)
-3gl, las (105 pts)
-3gl, las, pp (115 pts)

Others which technically are not "long range"but still fit in well with long range choices in other FOC slots:

-3 melta (100 pts)
-3plas (115 pts)
-3gl, demos (115 pts)

The netlist fanboys are going to jump on me for some of these.

So a large platoon of 4-5 squads with a lord comissar supported by 1-2 autocannon HWS, with autocannons in the infantry squads - sounds fun.

But it is a lot of points. Although I haven't really appreciated the lasgun, even at 24" it isn't bad (en-mass) but with the footprint of 50 guardmen, you are unlikely to be able to bring their full weight to bare on one unit.

I think the heavy weapon squads, if supported by a lord comissar (or a CCS/PCS to a lesser extent), could prove to be viable. A 60pt autocannon infantry squad isn't that impressive.

One min-sized platoon and one vet squad isn't enough. Two platoons, one in chimeras & the other in a phalanx of vendettas could do it; depending on the mission/enemy, field them embarked or entrenched? Bah, can't decide.

Edit----------------------------

Okay so If I were to buy two min sized platoons, all with autocannons. I could spend a further 220-330 and buy 4-6 chimeras. Could I spend that 220-330 points on better shooty elsewhere? Used frugally, are two small infantry platoons too little?

No, don't have autocannons in HWS. BS3 kills off any reliability whatsoever.
If you need heavy weapons, go with veteran squads.
autocannon is only 10 points so vet with autocannon is 80 points. Can easily field a few of them with enough points for a blob of infantry with comissar