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helloooooo fellow dakka-ers
ive been playing guard for a long time, i started collecting when i was in like, grade 8....but ive only really played like 3 matches, all of which i lost
i just recently played against fellow member hazard30, in which we played an 1850 point match, his orks vs my guard, and his orcs obliterated me...mind you he DID get to go first....
my question to you all is, should i sell my guard and start playing the much more resilient SM? my guard die way to easily, and its harder to hit gak with a WS and a BS of 3....
could it be becuase i only had 1 leman russ?

3 matches isn't too many to learn how to use your army - get some more games in, get some advice on your list and see if you like your army in another 10 games or so when you will have gotten the hang of it

What kind of a list are you running?

Yeah, when testing an army its usually a good idea to play a minimum of 10 games before coming to a conclusion.

Unless you are really uncomfortable with them, of course.

You could be running a bad army list and he could be running a far better one. You might be having a bad luck streak. What kind of list are you running, and what kind of list is he running?

Honestly, guard has the ability to be significantly more powerful than a good chunk of marine armies out there... well tooled guard is probably ork's worst nightmare.

1850 points allows for a nice amount of LRBTs and hydras.
As others have said, what's your list?

Remember, individually your guardsmen suck. When there's nearly 100 of them and 15 tanks on the board, and more heavy weapons than your opponent has models, things change.

Also, if you find your guard to be too squishy you can always mechanize them. Also, if you are playing against SME or TME all the time, it might be worth while to customise your list to that type of player. Armoured Sentinels with plasma cannons are a cheap $ wise [a couple of cadian battle forces will give you enough troops for a command squad two veteren squads and an infantry platoon with two squads, two heavy weapons teams and 2 sents] way to put some serious pain on SME armies for example.

Part of the big thing with gaurd is they take finer tactics than SME armies do imo. SME can rely on their saves as well as high bs and initiative and all their special rules to get them through most fights using fairly simple brute force tactics.

Guard, you have to me more delibirate and careful and not go on a general offensive until odds are heavily in your favor or risk getting ran of the board from lost melee battles.

If BS 3 is really bothering you that much, find solace in the flame . Flamers are dirt cheap, automatically hit and you can field a stupid number of them. Vet squads can have 3 flamers, ever seen a tactical marine squad make 10 saves in one turn before? I haven't. Also, template weapons hit the units they hit so they are the best method to making a squad out of coherency in the whole game.

+1 to the what's your list questions. Different army builds use different tactics. Until we know what you're running there's no way of telling what would help you.

I don't think that three games is enough to say that you should sell your guard. I would read up on guard tactics and list building first and try to improve your army. Maybe even proxy stuff in to try out different tactics before you switch over to another army.

I'm a pretty hopeless player (I have a shocking memory so can never remember even simple rules and sometimes don't learn from mistakes from previous games) but would never ever dream of giving up my guard.

May hit up some IG tactics tutorials. I often listen to tutes and wargaming vlogs whilst pulling long painting sessions on my own. Some of it has to sink in eventually!

HQ - 200 points - 7 models + mortar
• power weapon
• melta bombs
• medi pack
• mortar
• master of ordinance
• primaris psyker

Storm Trooper Squad 1 - 147 points - 7 models
• 2 more troops
• power weapon
• meltagun

Storm Trooper Squad 2 - 152 points - 7 models
• 2 more troops
• power weapon
• plasmagun

Platoon Command Squad - 60 points - 5 models + modified lascannon
• lascannon
• vox caster
• grenade launcher

Veteran Squad - 165 points - 10 models
• vox caster
• meltagun
• heavy bolter
• grenadiers
• demolitions
• 2 sniper rifles

Infantry Squad 1 - 152 points - 11 models
• melta bombs
• commissar
• power weapons
• bolt pistol
• power fist
• heavy bolter
• meltagun
• krak grenades

Infantry Squad 2 - 85 points - 10 models
• melta bombs
• krak grenades
• missile launcher
• vox caster

Armored Sentinel Squad - 215 points - 3 models + various weapons
• hunter killer missile
• plasma cannon
• autocannon
• lascannon

Hellhound - 140 points - 1 model
• hunter killer missile

Leman Russ - 205 points - 1 model
• lascannon
• heavy bolter sponsons
• hunter killer missile
• dozer blade

Chimera dedicated transport - 85 points - 1 model
• dozer blade
• hunter killer missile
• pintle mounted heavy stubber

Heavy Weapon squad - 65 points - 4 models + 2 mortars + 1 large base mortar squad
• krak grenades

Heavy Weapons squad - 105 points - 3 lascannon teams

Heavy Weapons squad - 75 points - 3 autocannon teams


Total points = 1851

Don't give up on the guard son, they're the meat in the Imperial sandwich!

oh and thanks for all the help guys

dmaz19 wrote:HQ - 200 points - 7 models + mortar
• power weapon
• melta bombs
• medi pack
• mortar
• master of ordinance
• primaris psyker

Storm Trooper Squad 1 - 147 points - 7 models
• 2 more troops
• power weapon
• meltagun

Storm Trooper Squad 2 - 152 points - 7 models
• 2 more troops
• power weapon
• plasmagun
Platoon Command Squad - 60 points - 5 models + modified lascannon
• lascannon
• vox caster
• grenade launcher

Veteran Squad - 165 points - 10 models
• vox caster
• meltagun
• heavy bolter
• grenadiers
• demolitions
• 2 sniper rifles
Infantry Squad 1 - 152 points - 11 models
• melta bombs
• commissar
• power weapons
• bolt pistol
• power fist
• heavy bolter
• meltagun
• krak grenades

Infantry Squad 2 - 85 points - 10 models
• melta bombs
• krak grenades
• missile launcher
• vox caster

Armored Sentinel Squad - 215 points - 3 models + various weapons
• hunter killer missile
• plasma cannon
• autocannon
• lascannon

Hellhound - 140 points - 1 model
• hunter killer missile

Leman Russ - 205 points - 1 model
• lascannon
• heavy bolter sponsons
• hunter killer missile
• dozer blade

Chimera dedicated transport - 85 points - 1 model
• dozer blade
• hunter killer missile
• pintle mounted heavy stubber

Heavy Weapon squad - 65 points - 4 models + 2 mortars + 1 large base mortar squad• krak grenades

Heavy Weapons squad - 105 points - 3 lascannon teams

Heavy Weapons squad - 75 points - 3 autocannon teams


Total points = 1851

I colored red the weak points in your army. Stormtroopers in general are over priced, its better to take veterens instead. Snipers are aweful. With the storm stooper squads you are taking out i would add bunches of vetrens and put the heavy weapons teams in the veterens squad so you are working with bs 4 instead of 3. Also they are much more able to take orders well as you use the sergeants leadership and can take vox casters for re-rolls. Mortars are pretty much just straight out bad as every army has away to get around the pinning. Also your points total is strange, to have 1851 pts means you are playing 2000 pt games with 149 fewer points then some one maxing out their pts. Thats an aditional hell hound + extras as is. With reorginazation you could add another lemun russ and probably fill out your hellhound squad if you used base.

Right now that lone chimera is kind of random, seems like it would get kileld first thing being the only transport.

Horst wrote:Honestly, guard has the ability to be significantly more powerful than a good chunk of marine armies out there... well tooled guard is probably ork's worst nightmare.

Oh it's true..... I'm getting tired of playing my one friends Guard with my Orks, because I have not beat him in over a year. I'm lucky if I get a tie.....

Conscripts... the answer is more conscripts.

haha j/k

or am I?!

Maybe try to match him up with the amount of bodies.

Try flamers those ought to be good against hordes right? or other template stuff. LRBTs make for some nice pie plates.

Oooooh! YOu know what? fit in some Ogryn. That should be fun.

Wait... you have a meltagun, snipers, and a heavy bolter in the same squad? Melta needs to move up close and snipers as well as the heavy bolter need to stay put. A bad combination. Meltagun combined with a heavy weapon is not good.

Grenadiers AND demolitions in the same squad? That's quite a lot of points. I would only choose one of those at any time. No more.

Notwithstanding grenadiers being useless.

Useless might be too strong a word, over piced...

Maybe 20 points instead of 30. It allows you to actually take a save agianst more stuff and then when you can take a save you have a 30% chance of making it. Thats not horrible.

Sorry, but... That list is rubbish.

Don't start a new army. Guard are probably the most versatile army in the game. Just learn how to put together a list that isn't all over the place. The thing that stands out the most is the HKs on everything. HKs are garbage

Don't EVER put close combat buffs on a shooty unit. Mortars are horrendous. Your veteran squad is awful. You infantry squad is horrible. The list goes on.

The key is redundancy. Give units things you know they'll actually use, not just whatever you can cram into the unit. They should have clearly defined purpose. What the heck is the point of the ST units? They have a single Special weapon and a power weapon? Why? Your veterans. What are they trying to do? Blow up tanks? Mow down infantry? Focus on one thing, and don't add a bunch of nonsense.

alright, thanks a lot for all the advice guys, ill start reading the new codex and maybe come back later with a better, revised list
thanks again!

Samus_aran115 wrote: The thing that stands out the most is the HKs on everything. HKs are garbage

I agree to a point; one HK is garbage but if you re goign to use them put them on everything, the unlimited range really works in your favor if your oppent doesn't put his death star unit behind cover or out of LOS. Get like 7-10 of these thigns all firing at the same, I don't know, avatar of khaine or something and it seems like you have a decent chance of at least knocking off a couple of wounds if not taking it out of the game on the first turn.

Majsharan wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote: The thing that stands out the most is the HKs on everything. HKs are garbage

I agree to a point; one HK is garbage but if you re goign to use them put them on everything, the unlimited range really works in your favor if your oppent doesn't put his death star unit behind cover or out of LOS. Get like 7-10 of these thigns all firing at the same, I don't know, avatar of khaine or something and it seems like you have a decent chance of at least knocking off a couple of wounds if not taking it out of the game on the first turn.

yea thats what i was going for, ive got an HKM on almost every mechanized unit haha
im thinking the reason i lost was probably because my leman russ was knocked out in the first turn...didnt even get to use it...
also, i only added some things to take up points to get the 1850...i didnt think i could get there see
case and point the sniper rifles....i dont think they hit a damn thing lol
however i do remember one sargeant, vs 5 nobs....he made close to 10 saving throws with his armor of 5+ XD

1 sarge survived 5 NOBS? I would make that guy my general for that.

dump the storm troopers and grab ratlings instead

forruner_mercy wrote:1 sarge survived 5 NOBS? I would make that guy my general for that.

yea, i plan to

dreadfury101 wrote:dump the storm troopers and grab ratlings instead

really? ratlings for storm troopers? they have WS of 2 though, isnt that really bad?

Power weapons seem like a waste on IG, I'm guessing you should allocate those points to bigger guns.

dmaz19 wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:1 sarge survived 5 NOBS? I would make that guy my general for that.

yea, i plan to

dreadfury101 wrote:dump the storm troopers and grab ratlings instead

really? ratlings for storm troopers? they have WS of 2 though, isnt that really bad?

If your ratlings are in CC, then you did something wrong.