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Hello.

I do not think of tyranids as competive. I am slightly tierd of meeting tournament lists because I cannot winn with this codex. Perhaps it is me who is bad, but a lott of people feel the same way. Especialy with the mech spam that is 5th edition.

In imperial apocalypse second edition they introduse the malanthrope anew, but it is a first for me.

I do not want to discuss points and stats in case of copy writing but I can sumerice that he is not totaly useless in CC, it is an MC, it has synapse, it used the HQ slott and we are paying under 30 point per wound on him. (Unless of course he gets instant killed.)

In the trygon with AG we are paying 35 points per wound. I am wondering, is this malanthrope a new hope?

The closest thing I can compare him with at 4 wounds to 110 points is 4 warriors at 120 (as the warriors will get IC) but the fine thing about the Malanthrope is that he is a CC heavy hitter because of his MC status. Is this something I should consider bying?

I am content that my tyranids will never be a top list, but perhaps this can help. What do you think?

Well if it comes from one of the Apocalypse books it isn't even an option for normal 40k.

I hope so.
I always liked this model, very gribbly.
Unfortunately now i have no faith in nid big bugs, except for trygons that is, so i aint holding my breath.

I believe they become official in imperial armour second edition, 40k stamped i believe.

They're 40k stamped, but they aren't codex official. Tournaments will still probably not let them in, and you still have to ask permission to use FW units in a friendly game.

I haven't seen the Nids from that book, but unless things drastically change it's not worth buying for me.

One thing you need to discuss with your opponent is its Warp Field. That is the main controversy. The older WF was a 2+ with 6++ invuln. Now the newer WF gives you 3++. I'd advise to discuss with opponent beforehand to clarify this.

Otherwise, yes, the Malanthrope is a really good unit, especially if you're giving him the newer 3++ save. Honestly, he needs a price bump with the newer WF (I'd say 200pts at least).

The 40k stamp is listet as official, although you must hear with your oponent before you use things he ahs never heard of.

jy2 it does not have warp field.

There is nobody here who has imperial armour?

@Niiai
- I've read a few Topics the past few days, and you seem pretty lost of any hopes for the Nidz. It just makes me curious as to why?

Guilty as charged Billinator. :-)

I like the nids a lott thematic, the fluff, and the rules. And it is a converters dreams. I like it, I love it! But I think the codex is bad, at least in the current metagame. It is well written but some of the MC's could just have costed a few points less.

I just keep loosing with them a lott.

In short it is a minimum troop requierment to grab as manny tanks as posible, usualy a few landraiders with a psyker in it or 3 landspeeders.

And the few who do not play SM, usualy play IG gunline.

Dark eldar is also very hard due to all the poison, and the speed.

I rarly meet regular eldar, orks or necrons (although that last will probably change! :-) ) so perhaps the nids do better against them, but just long range tank gunlines are so hard for the tyranids.

Anything that do not have S4 is usualy useless as they will be just ignored by the tanks. (So that means AG on moast things.)

Also there is the problem with little good synapse units besides the Tervigon.

In short when you are building a tyranid list you need to take screening units, MC's with reroll or zoanthropes vs AP 14 (there so mutch of it in my meta) hievguards vs all the AP 13 and razorbacks, a HC and some troops.

In an 1750 point list I feel that there are to many "obligatory" choises. There is little room to choose units you want to be funn vs good if you want to have a chance vs gunnlines. And even then the ods are stacked against you.

I do not consider tyranids to be a top tier army. It is funn in casual agmes but when my meta is very competetive I need a competetive list and the nids are not that. The final blow was perhaps when hulksmash shiftet over to GK, as he was very good with the Nids but now even he shelfed it.

Niiai wrote:The 40k stamp is listet as official, although you must hear with your oponent before you use things he ahs never heard of.

jy2 it does not have warp field.

There is nobody here who has imperial armour?

Then you, my friend, are probably looking at the older version. It's been updated in Imperial Armour Apocalypse. You'll find WF under Weapons and Hive Mind Powers.

I am looking at this, and I can ashure you it has no sutch thing.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL-ARMOUR-APOCALYPSE-SECOND-EDITION.html

It is the new version.

Now, can we move back on topic, can this help tyranids out?

Niiai wrote:Guilty as charged Billinator. :-)

I like the nids a lott thematic, the fluff, and the rules. And it is a converters dreams. I like it, I love it! But I think the codex is bad, at least in the current metagame. It is well written but some of the MC's could just have costed a few points less.

They aren't horribly bad, it is just that many of their fun options (lictors+mawloks, trygon tunnels, venomthropes, pyrovores) just plain have bad rules and do not work.
with some house rule adjustments they can be a ton of fun.

You do not think the venomthropes function Grundz?

I find that they are quite good. Exept of course for the problem that they are in the elite slott.

Several people did very well with nids last Strategikon (most popular Norwegian tourney) Niiai.

Nids aren't THAT bad, as long as you keep to the good units. It is sad that you have to have a bunch of hiveguard and tervigons, but that is life if you want to be competitive.

IMO, there are two good nid builds:
Genestealer spam
T6/horde spam

Hive guard and tervies feature heavily in both, difference is more MC's (trygons, tyrant), more boosting and more spawning in the last one and more genestealers and a mawloc in the other one.

The builds can use quite a lot of the units in the codex, so it isn't that bad, the only thing is that you NEED to have lots of hive guards and tervigons.

Yeah, I like how everyone says 'Stealer Shock is dead when their was a Genestealer-based army built specifically to thwomp Mech IG, and it did just that, I believe at the ETC last year.

Personally, I have a more optimistic view of Nids, but I just had my first game with them (which I lost) and I play a LOT of GK. I'm looking forward to the challenge, personally.

Niiai wrote:I am looking at this, and I can ashure you it has no sutch thing.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL-ARMOUR-APOCALYPSE-SECOND-EDITION.html

It is the new version.

Now, can we move back on topic, can this help tyranids out?

Ah ok, well that one hasn't been released to the general public yet...

Now, can we move back on topic, can this help tyranids out?

You appear to be the only person with the rules. Without some info from you we aren't much help. I know the old rules but sounds like they've been changed up quite a bit.

Can you paraphrase what they do and give a few relevant stats? You aren't breaking any rules as long as you don't state exactly how it works, as we'd still need the book to actually play them accurately.

I can tell you that point cost per wound is fairly irrelevant without the rest of the picture. Also being an MC doesn't make it automatically a heavy hitter. Tervigons are kinda crap in CC and are potentially cheaper per wound then the malanthrope. But they are still quite popular nad useful due to their rules, not being a heavy hitting mc.

Yeah, if you could the rules for this lovely beast, that would be super good.

Cool, OK. This is some of it. it is enough to break copywrite laws.

110 points per model. A brood of 1-3. Monsterus creature.

Fleet, S5, T5, W4, I5, A3, Sv 3+.

It does not have any gamebreaking defensive mecanics, and it is good against infantery. It is very tall, si it is hard to give it cover saves.

No svything tallons, but it is a HQ choise that provides zynapse, and cost 110 for 4 T5 wounds. I do not think that is bad.

The Hive Tyrant is 60 points more, and do not have fleet. My problem with tyranid MC's is that they usualy make it unto CC to late. Your oponent shoots your best MC's at a range, and then they do not make a impact afterwards.

Do they require taking a unit of rippers? They also used to cause instant death, figured they'd get implant attack in the new rules or something like that. They also had feeder tendrils, so woulda been interesting if they got some of the lictor special rules.

My first thought is that they have stats and points comparable to a prime. Swap IC and an attack for fleet and a wound. Get an extra D6 to pen but are much harder to hide. Overall the prime is more of a beatstick and probably more useful due to being an IC. Fleet is nice but not taking wounds is better.

The ability to take a brood of 1-3 is intriguing for big games (6 malanthropes and 3 trygons...) but not real useful at 2k and below.

That's just my first thoughts

Niiai wrote:You do not think the venomthropes function Grundz?

I find that they are quite good. Exept of course for the problem that they are in the elite slott.

They aren't horrible, but they aren't the greatest honestly.
I sold my bugs because I like admech more, however using venomthropes was a constant battle to get them out of line of sight so they dont' get pooched instantly. As I played more, I found myself gravitating away from them and towards yargarbl stealers. the benefited they give are good for my sort of army. (I ran gargoyle/mellee heavy swarm w/ some mc support) But with how I played, they really just weren't worth it.
by the 2nd turn against my army, unless you have horrific close range firepower, you are being assaulted by a huge number of gargoyles, possibly flying ht's, possibly outflanking stealers, and possibly yargarbles
by turn 3 the foot MC's should be starting to arrive and eat faces. So realistically, venomthropes are really only fully useful for the first, or sometimes second turn then they are just a tentacle monster trying to catch something harder to wound in cc. The more I looked at it, the more that I thought spending 55-165pts on something that really has no offensive value, in a list who's purpose is to jump down your throat and kick in your face, wasn't a good buy.

110 points per model. A brood of 1-3. Monsterus creature.

Fleet, S5, T5, W4, I5, A3, Sv 3+.

Sounds fine. Is that just a 3+, or does it have Warp Field as well?

Niiai wrote:The 40k stamp is listet as official, although you must hear with your oponent before you use things he ahs never heard of.

There's a difference between 40k stamped from FW and codex official from GW. The latter is the only one I care about.

rigeld2, that is of topic.

No it does not have warpfield. It has some small cool biomorphs that are not so important but are cool, and it has 2 good once.

rigeld2 wrote:

Niiai wrote:The 40k stamp is listet as official, although you must hear with your oponent before you use things he ahs never heard of.

There's a difference between 40k stamped from FW and codex official from GW. The latter is the only one I care about.

Agreed. The 40k stamp in the FW books means to me that it's "Playable in non-Apoc games". NOT "Feel free to show up to a random PUG with it or a tournament". I mean, look at this thread for example. JY2 is a pretty top tier nid gamer and he doesn't even know this exists. FYI, the release date for the book was early October.

One thing he forget to mention is the feeder tendril rule. When the Malanthrope kills someone in combat anyone within his synapse range gets preferred enemy against that race.

No warp field AFAIK, but I haven't seen the book personally.

Carnage43 wrote:One thing he forget to mention is the feeder tendril rule. When the Malanthrope kills someone in combat anyone within his synapse range gets preferred enemy against that race.

Ahh now that could be useful. That's the kind of info that is helpful. Not sure why the op has to be coy about his abilities.

Niiai wrote:rigeld2, that is of topic.

It's not off topic. You started this thread asking if the Malanthrope gave a sliver of hope to Tyranid players. I don't think it does because it's a FW rule, not a GW 40k rule.

Yes, FW may have playtested and signed off on the balance of the unit in normal 40k, but that doesn't mean it's a go in 40k tournaments or in pick up games.