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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:08:53
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:10:28
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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aboytervigon wrote:On that note I did some mathhammer
16 Incubi vs 8 Lychguard with shields
Incubi charge
33.8 hit
4.4 wound
2.2 wounds saved
6 Lychguard attack back
hit 5 times
and inflict 3.6 unsaveable wounds
and 0.4 Lychguard get back up
So even though the Incubi charged and you will never have 16 incubi charging you, Lychguard still won.
Why would the incubi get saves? Shield guard have PW.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:10:36
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
New Jersey
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So does anyone know if the Destroyer and Heavy Destroyer models are getting a definite redesign at some point?
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"Order. Unity. Obedience. We taught the galaxy these things, and we shall do so again."
"They are not your worst nightmare; they are your every nightmare."
"Let the galaxy burn!"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:10:47
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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Thats why I said unsaveable wounds.
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We are the necrontyr we claim dominion over this world, surrender and die |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:11:11
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Yes, but with the new codex, we got a lot of new tools against vehicles, mainly the awesome scarabs thus destroyers aren't fully necessary anymore in order to bring vehicles down yet on the other hand, they are now better against the annoying, ever-present MEQ 3+ saves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:12:12
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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aboytervigon wrote:Thats why I said unsaveable wounds.
Ah sorry. I read the wrong entry.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:12:44
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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More anti-meq is good, we had pretty much no anti-MEQ bar the monolith.
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We are the necrontyr we claim dominion over this world, surrender and die |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:19:35
Subject: Re:Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm thinking of fielding this list to try out some stuff. 1850 points.
Stormlord, Overlord w/ rez orb, 2 Harbingers of Destruction, 2 Harbingers of Despair, 3 x5 immortals with Gauss, x10 scarabs, x6 wraiths with coil, x5 lychguard with shields, x5 deathmarks, monolith, and annihilation barge
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4000+ points
1500 points maybe? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:20:56
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Sigvatr wrote:zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Yes, but with the new codex, we got a lot of new tools against vehicles, mainly the awesome scarabs thus destroyers aren't fully necessary anymore in order to bring vehicles down yet on the other hand, they are now better against the annoying, ever-present MEQ 3+ saves.
Thats irrelevant. You cant compare old v new on something that new are better at (the only thing they are at that) and conclude that new are better. All it is showing is new are better at 3+ saves, which is obvious. Overall old are better, which is also obvious.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:23:06
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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zacharia wrote:Sigvatr wrote:zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Yes, but with the new codex, we got a lot of new tools against vehicles, mainly the awesome scarabs thus destroyers aren't fully necessary anymore in order to bring vehicles down yet on the other hand, they are now better against the annoying, ever-present MEQ 3+ saves.
Thats irrelevant. You cant compare old v new on something that new are better at (the only thing they are at that) and conclude that new are better. All it is showing is new are better at 3+ saves, which is obvious. Overall old are better, which is also obvious.
The old are also made obsolete due to the plethora of better anti-tank that is now available.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:23:23
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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We have anti-hoard and anti-mech now, thus the destroyer is irrelevant in both those jobs.
Edit: ninja'd plus he used plethora so he is obviously superior.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/30 20:24:32
We are the necrontyr we claim dominion over this world, surrender and die |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:25:27
Subject: Re:Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The destroyer is also outclassed now that their is a new jetbike unit. wow, gw really doesn't like the destroyer, huh? /sarcasm
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/30 20:28:11
4000+ points
1500 points maybe? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:26:34
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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What do you mean they have 2 shot 30" 42" threat range ap3 guns for 40 points, I think they love destroyers.
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We are the necrontyr we claim dominion over this world, surrender and die |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:27:46
Subject: Re:Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Yeah, I wouldn't say outclassed. They just have a different role that's all.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/30 20:28:02
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:27:58
Subject: Re:Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Forgot to add the "/sarcasm" at the end. gonna go put that up there now.
Edit:
And Done. Basically, they gave the Destroyer a new role, so people will go out and buy other units. "Everyone already has a million destroyers, lets make wraiths better so people will buy a million of those." I honestly think they are better, but I'd still rather 5 in a max squad then 3.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/30 20:30:20
4000+ points
1500 points maybe? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:31:04
Subject: Re:Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Water-Caste Negotiator
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I really want to make a Army Based around The Imotehk guy! His ability seems so freaking cool.
So if I get stuck in a really bad spot. Like lets say a weird ass deployment and night fighting turn one for the mission rules and end up with my opponent really super close to me on turn one.
Good by Night Fighting. Pow.Pow POW! And back to normal with me blasting you with freaking lightning all game long lol.
Models look amazing and much better than the old ones. Except the "Original" metal necron warriors will always be the coolest!
They got a little bit of an Egyptian feel to them "Tomb Kings"
But its better than the freaking Sci Fi B movie Terminator look.
Seriously. Spot one difference between Terminator and Necrons. There isn't. They look exactly the same. At least now they are for the most part. Far more Unique, Flavorful and will provide a lot more challenge and entertainment painting than slathering on silver paint and some gold over black undercoat!
Now we actually get to "paint" something rather than give it a base coat with a highlight and be done with it.
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THE ARMIES I PLAY!
Tau
Space Wolves
Eldar
Orks
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:32:08
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
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We are the necrontyr we claim dominion over this world, surrender and die |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:37:20
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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zacharia wrote:
Thats irrelevant. You cant compare old v new on something that new are better at (the only thing they are at that) and conclude that new are better. All it is showing is new are better at 3+ saves, which is obvious. Overall old are better, which is also obvious.
I disagree. Whenever I have a look at an army, I need to have a look at the army as a whole. Each unit in an army is supposed to fulfill a certain role and if one unit does the same job better than another unit while being comparable cost-wise, there is no reason to take another one. With the new codex, why would I want to take the old destroyers, now that I have better units to do the very same job? The new scarabs are awesome anti AV units and work well with my other units, so why would I spend points on taking destroyers now that I have a lot more choices in other slots?
MEQ is the standard army in 40k and the more we have to counter these guys, the better it gets. 3+ saves are extremely annoying. Sure, it's hard to see an old unit getting a new role as it requires thinking different or using them in a different way, but I don't consider the new destroyers weaker in any way, they have simply changed their respective roles. Not worse, just different.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:38:04
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
If they had that, I'd love to have W1 T1 and I1 in the whole army. Sure I'd die if so much as a snotling coughed at me, but if I let a snotling cough then I wasn't playing right. Honestly, I wouldn't want that, and now that you point that out I understand the limit to 3, but I'm going to stick to my standpoint of wanting 5 in a squad, not because of my stubborness, which is playing a huge roll by the way, but becuase i own 15 destroyers.
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4000+ points
1500 points maybe? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:40:56
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
Over exagerating like that doesnt help make it more convincing, 30 shots (shots, not even hits or wounds) and a 'few' AT to kill an entire army in 1 turn? id love to see some mathhammer show that...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:43:05
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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has some one posted the basic rule for the guy from below there pic on the GW website?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 20:44:54
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
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kk I was refering to GK when I said potentially also Potentially a single paladin with Daemonhammer could kill an entire army, unlikely yes, impossible no.
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We are the necrontyr we claim dominion over this world, surrender and die |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:02:24
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Does a Destroyer Lord allow you to take a Court, or just 'true' Overlords?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:08:48
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator
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zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
The problem with mathhammering anything at all is that you find out that your army will most likely win against any army possible and then you go to a tournament and roll lots of ones. Automatically Appended Next Post: Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Does a Destroyer Lord allow you to take a Court, or just 'true' Overlords?
Detroyer Lords are taken as part of a Court.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/30 21:09:25
Skalk Bloodaxe wrote:When the Death Guard and World Eater forces split after their last battle as allies, this particular Champion simply loaded his squad into the wrong Rhino and has yet to notice.
Yggdrasil wrote:"First shalt thou take out your whole Unholy Army. Then shalt thou count to Seven, no more, no less. Seven shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be Seven. Eight shalt thou not count (bloody -fanatics), neither count thou six (fing sex-addicts), excepting that thou then proceed to Seven. Nine is right out (goddn mock seers) . Once the number seven, being the seventh number, be reached, then formest thou thy first Plague Marine squad. Likewise, thou shall marshall thy remaining troops in squads of Seven, and Seven shall be the number of brothers in each of your squad." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:13:21
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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StringBassKnight wrote:
Detroyer Lords are taken as part of a Court.
Are you sure about that? In the OP and on a few other occasions, Yak stated that Destroyer Lords are Overlords, not regular lords, thus a Destroyer lord would allow you to field a Royal Court. In the new codex, regular lords no longer have the option to take a destroyer body.
Quoted from the OP:
• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).
The Royal Court does not take up a HQ slot but may only be taken one per each Overlord (including the named ones) you take in the army.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/30 21:14:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:15:59
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Necrons make me happy. Lots of Dakka!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:26:10
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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Byte wrote:Necrons make me happy. Lots of Dakka!
I'm happy about some things, but Im not seeing lots of dakka. Im seeing potential dakka, but you need a 6 for it to result in extra auto hits. When the dex arrives we'll see how much dakka there really is. Are you referring to the point reduction of the old units? This army definitely has a shambling horde field like it should have had from the old fluff
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Chaos daemons 1850
Chaos Marines 1850
2250+
2500++ (Wraithwing)
I moved so starting from scratch. These were the armies I had, rebuilding my Chaos. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:33:17
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Defeatmyarmy wrote:Byte wrote:Necrons make me happy. Lots of Dakka!
I'm happy about some things, but Im not seeing lots of dakka. Im seeing potential dakka, but you need a 6 for it to result in extra auto hits. When the dex arrives we'll see how much dakka there really is. Are you referring to the point reduction of the old units? This army definitely has a shambling horde field like it should have had from the old fluff
Well, you could have 4 arks equipped with 10 warriors each, thus they move in RF range and you get 80 shots plus 4x5 shots by the ark itself. Potentially. Spread among different units.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/30 21:34:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:34:34
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I used to play Necrons so long ago that I even have models from 2nd ed kicking around. Unfortunately I sold most of them a while back. Now these lovely new models come out and they cost £20 for five? GW price hikes are nothing new but this is too far for me I think. Looks like my attachment to Necrons is at an end :(
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/30 21:48:22
Subject: Necron rumor & pics summary in 1st post (update: Advanced Orders are up! discussion starts pg 121)
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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tetrisphreak wrote:Lokas wrote:Is there any word on whether or not the quantum shielding will ignore the lance rule?
God I wish it did.
The codex WD entries make no specific mention of lance weapons. They say:
WD #382 wrote: QUANTUM SHIELDING: Until a vehicle suffers a penetrating hit, it counts all Armour Values on its front and side facings as being 2 points higher. Once a penetrating hit has been scored it can no longer use the quantum shielding.
So depending on which rule takes precedence, or unless the codex adds a stipulation for lance weaponry towards QS, it looks like our boats will count as AV12 vs our Eldar and DE opponents. <--- that makes sense considering the ages-old feud between the races, though. Eldar and Necrons are sworn enemies ever since the Old Ones were around.
Its a complicated situation I think (and I'm an Eldar player). Lance kicks in as a response to the QS which brings it down to 12, but at the same time while it exists, you still count the AV as being 2 points higher... does that mean that you magically end up with an AV14? Obviously, from an RAI standpoint its a no, but from a RAW standpoint its a mess.
It would be a pretty hard counter to DE and Eldar if it did nullify Lance. Considering most of our AT is strength 8, only 6's would penetrate. With how Necrons will be able to field loads of vehicles now (although I suspect to a lesser extent than razor spam or skimmer spam) It would be real rough on a DE army to combat a mechanized Necron army. Eldar might have an easier time with Fire Dragons, but ah well.
Pure conjecture at this point. I was just curious.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, Necron vehicles are like what 100 points base at the cheapest? You're not going to be seeing very many of them on the table.
So a monolith with quantum shielding would be at AV16 or is 14 the highest AV possible
Monoliths dont have QS.
yakface wrote:
Personally I think I'd try to use Warrior models and modify them to hold converted Lychguard or Praetorian weapons and probably try to green stuff a cloak onto them to make totally custom Cryptek models.
I was thinking of just using converted Lychguard for my Lords and Crypteks. They look like they are mini-overlords anyway, so why not?
BaronIveagh wrote:.... is it just me or are the necrons an inversion of the usual attempts by GW to make 40k look LESS like their WHF equivalents? Because these new Necrons look MORE like Tomb Kings than before...
Been thinking this the entire time myself.
According to Yak, the model is "removed as a casualty" thus no saves would be allowed. Then again, I wonder how useful this ability turns out to be...the chance of the enemy model blowing up is pretty low and you'd have to always keep the C'Tan near your vehicles, most likely the monolith. A babysitting C'Tan (shard)? That's about 250 points sitting next to 200 points...hmmm.
Yes, but consider how common those weapons are on the battlefield now. I think almost every tournament list has a minimum of 20 weapons that will be effected by this rule, 20 weapons over 6 turns is a lot of opportunity for death.
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