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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

I hope this is Guardian hyperbole. We really can't afford a war against Iran right now. Plus it will end badly.

The Guardian wrote:Britain's armed forces are stepping up their contingency planning for potential military action against Iran amid mounting concern about Tehran's nuclear enrichment programme, the Guardian has learned.

The Ministry of Defence believes the US may decide to fast-forward plans for targeted missile strikes at some key Iranian facilities. British officials say that if Washington presses ahead it will seek, and receive, UK military help for any mission, despite some deep reservations within the coalition government.

In anticipation of a potential attack, British military planners are examining where best to deploy Royal Navy ships and submarines equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles over the coming months as part of what would be an air and sea campaign.

They also believe the US would ask permission to launch attacks from Diego Garcia, the British Indian ocean territory, which the Americans have used previously for conflicts in the Middle East.

The Guardian has spoken to a number of Whitehall and defence officials over recent weeks who said Iran was once again becoming the focus of diplomatic concern after the revolution in Libya.

They made clear that Barack Obama, has no wish to embark on a new and provocative military venture before next November's presidential election.

But they warned the calculations could change because of mounting anxiety over intelligence gathered by western agencies, and the more belligerent posture that Iran appears to have been taking.

Hawks in the US are likely to seize on next week's report from the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is expected to provide fresh evidence of a possible nuclear weapons programme in Iran.

The Guardian has been told that the IAEA's bulletin could be "a game changer" which will provide unprecedented details of the research and experiments being undertaken by the regime.

One senior Whitehall official said Iran had proved "surprisingly resilient" in the face of sanctions, and sophisticated attempts by the west to cripple its nuclear enrichment programme had been less successful than first thought.

He said Iran appeared to be "newly aggressive, and we are not quite sure why", citing three recent assassination plots on foreign soil that the intelligence agencies say were coordinated by elements in Tehran.

In addition to that, officials now believe Iran has restored all the capability it lost in a sophisticated cyber-attack last year.The Stuxnet computer worm, thought to have been engineered by the Americans and Israelis, sabotaged many of the centrifuges the Iranians were using to enrich uranium.

Up to half of Iran's centrifuges were disabled by Stuxnet or were thought too unreliable to work, but diplomats believe this capability has now been recovered, and the IAEA believes it may even be increasing.

Ministers have also been told that the Iranians have been moving some more efficient centrifuges into the heavily-fortified military base dug beneath a mountain near the city of Qom.

The concern is that the centrifuges, which can be used to enrich uranium for use in weapons, are now so well protected within the site that missile strikes may not be able to reach them. The senior Whitehall source said the Iranians appeared to be shielding "material and capability" inside the base.

Another Whitehall official, with knowledge of Britain's military planning, said that within the next 12 months Iran may have hidden all the material it needs to continue a covert weapons programme inside fortified bunkers. He said this had necessitated the UK's planning being taken to a new level.

"Beyond [12 months], we couldn't be sure our missiles could reach them," the source said. "So the window is closing, and the UK needs to do some sensible forward planning. The US could do this on their own but they won't.

"So we need to anticipate being asked to contribute. We had thought this would wait until after the US election next year, but now we are not so sure.

"President Obama has a big decision to make in the coming months because he won't want to do anything just before an election."

Another source added there was "no acceleration towards military action by the US, but that could change". Next spring could be a key decision-making period, the source said. The MoD has a specific team considering the military options against Iran.

The Guardian has been told that planners expect any campaign to be predominantly waged from the air, with some naval involvement, using missiles such as the Tomahawks, which have a range of 800 miles (1,287 km). There are no plans for a ground invasion, but "a small number of special forces" may be needed on the ground, too.

The RAF could also provide air-to-air refuelling and some surveillance capability, should they be required. British officials say any assistance would be cosmetic: the US could act on its own but would prefer not to.

An MoD spokesman said: "The British government believes that a dual track strategy of pressure and engagement is the best approach to address the threat from Iran's nuclear programme and avoid regional conflict. We want a negotiated solution – but all options should be kept on the table."

The MoD says there are no hard and fast blueprints for conflict but insiders concede that preparations there and at the Foreign Office have been under way for some time.

One official said: "I think that it is fair to say that the MoD is constantly making plans for all manner of international situations. Some areas are of more concern than others. "It is not beyond the realms of possibility that people at the MoD are thinking about what we might do should something happen on Iran. It is quite likely that there will be people in the building who have thought about what we would do if commanders came to us and asked us if we could support the US. The context for that is straightforward contingency planning."

Washington has been warned by Israel against leaving any military action until it is too late.

Western intelligence agencies say Israel will demand that the US act if it believes its own military cannot launch successful attacks to stall Iran's nuclear programme. A source said the "Israelis want to believe that they can take this stuff out", and will continue to agitate for military action if Iran continues to play hide and seek.

It is estimated that Iran, which has consistently said it is interested only in developing a civilian nuclear energy programme, already has enough enriched uranium for between two and four nuclear weapons.

Experts believe it could be another two years before Tehran has a ballistic missile delivery system.

British officials admit to being perplexed by what they regard as Iran's new aggressiveness, saying that they have been shown convincing evidence that Iran was behind the murder of a Saudi diplomat in Karachi in May, as well as the audacious plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador in Washington, which was uncovered last month.

"There is a clear dotted line from Tehran to the plot in Washington," said one.

Earlier this year, the IAEA reported that it had evidence Tehran had conducted work on a highly sophisticated nuclear triggering technology that could only be used for setting off a nuclear device.

It also said it was "increasingly concerned about the possible existence in Iran of past or current undisclosed nuclear-related activities involving military-related organisations, including activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile."

Last year, the UN security council imposed a fourth round of sanctions on Iran to try to deter Tehran from pursuing any nuclear ambitions.

At the weekend, the New York Times reported that the US was looking to build up its military presence in the region, with one eye on Iran.

According to the paper, the US is considering sending more naval warships to the area, and is seeking to expand military ties with the six countries in the Gulf Co-operation Council: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Oman.

   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

Mainly in response to Iran trying to make nuclear missiles, the US is already planning to a system in eastern Europe and already has Aegis cruisers out there, possibly sending more just to watch things from Iran and also Russia.
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior






Flashman wrote:...They made clear that Barack Obama, has no wish to embark on a new and provocative military venture before next November's presidential election...


This right here is why this country is dumb and messed up. The election of the president and US officials has factors in rather if our country declares war on another nation. Makes no sense to me...

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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Zyllos wrote:
Flashman wrote:...They made clear that Barack Obama, has no wish to embark on a new and provocative military venture before next November's presidential election...


This right here is why this country is dumb and messed up. The election of the president and US officials has factors in rather if our country declares war on another nation. Makes no sense to me...


It makes perfect sense. Voters don't like wars. Voters don't like voting for political leaders who start wars.

Unless Iran attacks somebody first. That may be a different story.

   
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LordofHats wrote:It makes perfect sense. Voters don't like wars. Voters don't like voting for political leaders who start wars.

Presumably dynamic military actions for humanitarian reasons are acceptable.

Obligatory: They told me if I voted for McCain we'd go to war with Iran!

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






There was a time when I would have expected the US/UK to invade Iran before Iraq...so this doesn't come as a large suprise.
The conspiratorial empire building part of me says that Western friendly governments from Israel to Afgan would be a sound world strategy for the english speaking allies. But tha depends on Iraq and Afgan becoming "friendly" which I doubt once they are free of our intervention.
I don't think anyone will invade Iran, probably just do targeted strikes and try to enforce a no fly zone or some nonsense like they did with Iraq.
Maybe Guardian hyperbole.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
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I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
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USA

biccat wrote:Presumably dynamic military actions for humanitarian reasons are acceptable.


It depends. Say you're going to intercede in Rwanda to stop genocide, yes, I think people will generally say "Go get um!" Humanitarian intervention though carries a very different meaning for a lot of people than invading a relatively stable nation like Iran, where there isn't even mass killing. People start crying about starting unnecessary wars. A lot of people I don't think even consider humanitarian missions 'war' as we commonly think of it. Sure they call it a war, but they approach it very differently than a more conventional country A attacks country B conflict.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Why can't the UK just go back to it's roots and go after France or Spain? I'm sure we can trump up some intelligence they have WMDs

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
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Here's an awesome concept. Leave us the feth alone or we'll nuke you. Once the oil runs out you're irrelevant.

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AustonT wrote:Why can't the UK just go back to it's roots and go after France or Spain? I'm sure we can trump up some intelligence they have WMDs

Fairly sure France does actually have WMDs...

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






...I feel like you missed what I was eluding to.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

AustonT wrote:...I feel like you missed what I was eluding to.

I know what you were alluding to. I just decided to ignore it...

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

Sure that America didn't just realise they have oil in Iran or something?

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






They have oil in Iran. LETS GO GET IT BOYS!

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





AustonT wrote:They have oil in Iran. LETS GO GET IT BOYS!

They also have oil in Canada. And Texas.

I'm just saying we could save some money on gas.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






And apparently a big find in North Dakota.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

Let the Israelis lead the way. It's on their doorstep, financially back them under the table if needs be.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

Iran is responsible for most of our deaths in Iraq, and many in Afghanistan.

I want to have a war with them, I just dont want us to have to pay for it, in neither money nor blood.

If Bill Gates builds us a robot army, im happy with it. Other than that, well, we will just have to swallow the bitter pill that the Iranian regime has inflicted upon us, because we cant afford the cash or the men.

I doubt it would take THAT much though.. major riots last election.. an angry young generation with less time for theocracy, maybe we could force a regime change with mainly air power and covert assistance to the rebel elements?

Higher pay scales than me can figure that gak out if that's a good idea though.

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

The Saudis paid for a sizeable amount of the first Gulf, we need someone to do the same again. :p

War costs a fortune and at the moment I think the the British army needs a rest after effectively a decade on a war footing. Doesn't help we have a government that wants to cut funding to the forces while fighting wars.

They should choose fund and support the armed forces properly or give up this idea that we still have an empire through which to exercise power around the globe.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

Howard A Treesong wrote:The Saudis paid for a sizeable amount of the first Gulf, we need someone to do the same again. :p

War costs a fortune and at the moment I think the the British army needs a rest after effectively a decade on a war footing. Doesn't help we have a government that wants to cut funding to the forces while fighting wars.

They should choose fund and support the armed forces properly or give up this idea that we still have an empire through which to exercise power around the globe.


We should just park a load of submarines off the Iranian coast and send Ahmadinejad a letter saying, "Put the missiles down and step away from the enriched uranium."

   
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(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

North korea has nukes, threatens to use them constantly, and provocatively attacks its neighbors? Nothing.

Irans got some turbines spinning up fuel? Better prep those subs!

Man, whitey hates brown dude.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/02 21:08:26


----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

ShumaGorath wrote:North korea has nukes, threatens to use them constantly, and provocatively attacks its neighbors? Nothing.

Irans got some turbines spinning up fuel? Better prep those subs!

Man, whitey hates brown dude.


Not necessarily that but China is a huge stabilizing factor in the Asian area.
   
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(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

halonachos wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:North korea has nukes, threatens to use them constantly, and provocatively attacks its neighbors? Nothing.

Irans got some turbines spinning up fuel? Better prep those subs!

Man, whitey hates brown dude.


Not necessarily that but China is a huge stabilizing factor in the Asian area.


The doctrine of prevention is also pretty paramount here. We don't want them to get nukes because by then it will be 'too late'. It's amusing that due to how we treat countries with nukes they're actually incentivised to get them and act belligerent.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/02 21:16:50


----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Howard A Treesong wrote:Let the Israelis lead the way. It's on their doorstep, financially back them under the table if needs be.

Wouldn't Israel have to go across Syria or Jordon and Iraq to get to Iran or is my geography drifting with age? Or did you just mean a generally geographical close ness as opposed to sailing around the world.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
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Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Massive airstrikes will sure bring down a regieme...

Definately seems like the usual Guardian trolling.

   
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United Kingdom

Trouble is with these new fangled wars is the protest songs aren't as good as they were in the 60's

One, two, three
What are we fighting for?
Hell, I don't give a damn
Next stop is I-Iran

Afghanistan don't quite scan

Not the same ring to it somehow imho.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/02 21:21:59


 
   
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

AustonT wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:Let the Israelis lead the way. It's on their doorstep, financially back them under the table if needs be.

Wouldn't Israel have to go across Syria or Jordon and Iraq to get to Iran or is my geography drifting with age? Or did you just mean a generally geographical close ness as opposed to sailing around the world.


Israel is the ones suffering threats from Iran and having to put up with them supplying arms and equipment to Syria and Lebanon, they are the ones that were told they need to be wiped off the map, and yes they are geographically much closer than western powers. I don't think it would be right to take the lead over Israel in this matter.
   
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halonachos wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:Man, whitey hates brown dude.


Not necessarily that but China is a huge stabilizing factor in the Asian area.


To a certain worldview - which I can only assume Shuma is parodying because it's completely absurd - the United States and Western powers only attack people based on the color of their skin, not such complicated issues as international politics.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






If they take it, Israels willingness to go to war is starting to become questionable. The Lebanon campaign was...poorly executed to put it lightly. Ben Gurion left the Israelis the charge to fight for "this land", they might be less inclined to spill blood for...that land. That being said it would be one hell of a scrap.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
 
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