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1. Does Hatred and/or Frenzy apply to mounts?

2. Under the Empires Warrior Priest rules, Righteous Fury gives him and his unit "Hate all enemies". Is this the same as hatred or no?

3. If chaos warriors have hand weapon and shield, as well as great weapons, can I choose which combination to use, or must I go with great weapons?

4. When a war machine crew is killed in close combat, does the attacking unit have the option to overrun (if it charged), or does it spend a turn hacking the war machine to pieces?

For the warriors they have to take the gw in cc as far as I know.
Also why gw? halberds do just fine and keeps your initiative.

When the crew dies the war machine is removed and the unit can over run as far as I understand if they charged that turn or over ran into it.

1. I think normally no.

2. Yes..

3. Have to use the Great Weapons unless they have a rule they get to choose before combat. Example Black Orcs. The Weapon use order is. Magic > Special > Hand.

4. Warmachine is destroyed and you can overrun if you charged

Reason I ask about the warrior priest is because in the errata it states that Flagellants get re-rolls if they sacrifice a guy and get "Hate all enemies" in the 2nd or subsequent turn of combat. The wording on the warrior priest is exactly the same ("Hate all enemies), which makes the really cheap hero really, really powerful in a unit of knights.

RAW-wise the mounts are part of the unit and do get to hate. Usually tho players and most TOs agree they don't.

Warrior priests in other units give the "hatred" special rule for all enemies. This is as opposed to, say, dwarfs, who only hate greenskins and otherwise just have to hope they can roll decent dice on the first try. I can't, which is one reason I sol my dwarfs.

The empire warrior priest rule does NOT apply in the second or subsequent round of combat, as I think you were applying. Flagellants have a special rule where they get it again every round if they choose to martyr anybody, but absent this specific distinction, the priest rule is the same as the hatred enjoyed by, say, dark elves: it only works in the first combat round.


As for the mounts, as above, RAW says that as part of the unit, they get hatred. The situation is different from a mounted character who hates (e.g. dark elf on cold one), because per the BRB, mounts don't get special rules that apply to riders and vice versa (also applies to ASF, cold-blooded, fast cavalry, etc etc). However, priest hatred is different. It falls in the same category as things like spells, which apply an effect to the entire unit. Mounts get an extra attack and ASF from timewarp, they get +1 strength and toughness from wildform, their strength is debuffed by the other guy's casting of the enfeebling foe, etc. Priest hatred is a unit effect and therefore it covers the mounts.

Malleus wrote:per the BRB, mounts don't get special rules that apply to riders and vice versa (also applies to ASF, cold-blooded, fast cavalry, etc etc).

Good intention bad examples, fast cav was FAQ to apply anyway and cold blooded is in the allways use rider LD bin (also it's army wide so whatevs).
Good examples would be poisoned attacks, killing blow and so on.

If a special rule is given "to the unit" then it will apply to the mounts as well. If its only to the riders then only they have the special rule, or vice verse.

The Mark of Khorne gives Frenzy, MoK is purchased "for the unit"

Because of this, I say it applies to the entire unit including the mounts as they are part of the unit.

Characters are treated seperatly, unless the effect is given during the game. MoK wouldn't effect a MoN lord joining some MoK knights, but if a Warshrine or magic banner gave them something it would apply to the knights and the character.

Mounts and Riders have different stats and special rules.

Here it is: p. 82 Cavalry and Special Rules

Unless otherwise noted, special rules that apply to the mount do not normally apply to the rider and vice versa.

If one or the other has Frenzy, they both go berserk, but only one gets an extra attack.

I was looking this up last night because of daemonic mounts, where some get poison/armor piercing/etc.

Thats true when it is the mount specifically thats given the special rule. but what happens when, say, a unit of Chaos Knights get MoK?

MoK says "a Model with the MoK is subject to Frenzy"

the Chaos Knight entry says " The Unit may have a Mark of Chaos..."

The Cavelry unit type description says "Although a Cavelry model has 2 sets of characteristics, it is treated as a single model"

The Main Rule book defines "Units" as "A unit consists of 1 or more models that are arranged in orthogonal..."


because the Unit has Frenzy, so do the models, and in this case the model is 2 or more seperate profiles, rider and mount.



because of this, a mount will benifit if the unit as a whole purchases Frenzy. So Chaos Steeds gain +1A.

I don't believe so. It says "Unless otherwise noted, special rules that apply to the mount do not normally apply to the rider, and vice versa." They list the 4 exceptions to this rule. If the "otherwise noted" was the fact that it's a combined model, this rule wouldn't need to exist, let alone take up half a page, as every single cavalry would fall under that interpretation.

"A Model with the Mark of Khorne is Subject to Frenzy."

Period. There is no rule that MoK applies to mount AND rider. It has to individually say that to undo the very specific entry that says Special Rules do not apply to both. That's RAW.

Also, from a RAI perspective, since you never attack the horse, the MoT, MoN, MoS would be VASTLY inferior to MoK which would basically double the attacks of the unit and be pretty crazy.

Except Mount and Rider, by the Cavelry definitions, are a Single Model.

Duke - so who does it apply to?

If youre saying it deosnt apply to both (when it does) then how are you determining WHICH part of the model gains the benefit?

Both parts of the model gain the benefit, as they are a single model.

I think it applies to both like Grey said, simply for the reason YOU ask: who gets it otherwise?

And, by RAW as they are a single model both parts MUST get it, as the entire unit does.

Now a tougher question is, do Marks on chaos characters apply to the mount?(MoK anyway) The entry there just says "Marks of Chaos: MoK, MoN..." and doesn't say specifically if its the, potential, rider or the mount. We could assume that god specific mounts already have the corresponding mark, but what about Dragons or Daemonic mounts?

They have it both ways. p.105/6 say it's a single model for shooting. But the FAQ says you can direct attacks in challenges against either. And in close combat you can choose which you attack, mount or rider.

But you figure if someone cast a magic missile or direct damage, it would hit EITHER the rider OR the dragon (for instance), not both. So an abilities that affects a single model should probably just affect one. However, it's certainly just 1 unit, so augments that affect units (and not model) should affect both.

DukeRustfield wrote:They have it both ways. p.105/6 say it's a single model for shooting. But the FAQ says you can direct attacks in challenges against either. And in close combat you can choose which you attack, mount or rider.

But you figure if someone cast a magic missile or direct damage, it would hit EITHER the rider OR the dragon (for instance), not both. So an abilities that affects a single model should probably just affect one. However, it's certainly just 1 unit, so augments that affect units (and not model) should affect both.

Actually its very dependant on the ability, and they are a model and a unit – a one model unit.
Stuff that affects models works on both (hexes, augments), stuff that shoots (or is distributedshooting) is randomside as per the rules on 105/6, and some stuff has it clearly explained how they affect them (templates, FAQ sniper and death spells). And then there's characteristic tests.

well, the Mark of Tzeench gives the model a ward save but specifically excludes the mount. the Mark of Khorne has no such exclusion.

Lotet wrote:well, the Mark of Tzeench gives the model a ward save but specifically excludes the mount. the Mark of Khorne has no such exclusion.

Where you see that?

whoops, wrong thing. I was supposed to say the Golden Eye of Tzeench (WoC magical item) says the model gets the buff but it specifically excludes the mount.