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Hey are there any stories of a rouge techpriest working for the tau? I mean there's whole organizations of heretical techpriests that use science and OMG "innovation" to advance the quest for knowledge outside of the adeptus, so why wouldn't they join up with the tau? have the tau ever captured any forgeworlds?

No, that's heresy

Alien technology is profane.

bombboy1252 wrote:No, that's heresy

yes, but there are plenty of heretical techpriests, or at least heretical to the omnissiah, not as in in leauge with chaos, though some of the hereteks are also involved with chaos.

Entire Imperial Worlds have joined the Tau, I would not be surprised if there were Tech-Priests amongst them.

Psienesis wrote:Entire Imperial Worlds have joined the Tau, I would not be surprised if there were Tech-Priests amongst them.

But Tech-Priests do not know how Tau Weaponry works. It is beyound their interpretation and their belief in the Machine God, which is why refer to Tau Technology as 'Techno Sorcery'.

Tech Priests would be useless to Tau research since Tau weapons are more advanced than anything the Mechanicum has produced.

Correct, a by-the-manual Tech-Priest does not know, just by looking at it, how a Tau weapon works.

This is not to say that a Tech-Priest cannot learn how it works. After all, they reverse-engineered Eldar weapons to create Haywire Grenades.

I would say that if a techpriest was in league with the tau, then the Inquisition has work to take care of.

(Wait...would that fall under witchunters?)

Psienesis wrote:Correct, a by-the-manual Tech-Priest does not know, just by looking at it, how a Tau weapon works.

This is not to say that a Tech-Priest cannot learn how it works. After all, they reverse-engineered Eldar weapons to create Haywire Grenades.

Don't eldar use Haywire Grenades?

Da Kommizzar wrote:I would say that if a techpriest was in league with the tau, then the Inquisition has work to take care of.

(Wait...would that fall under witchunters?)

I...guess so? Seems to fit the best, thought Techpriests are close to being more machine then human, although some already passed that point.

StormForged wrote:Tech Priests would be useless to Tau research since Tau weapons are more advanced than anything the Mechanicum has produced.

Tick, tick, wrong.

IoM tech is not inferior to Tau tech.

The examples are everywhere.

BrainDeleted wrote:

StormForged wrote:Tech Priests would be useless to Tau research since Tau weapons are more advanced than anything the Mechanicum has produced.

Tick, tick, wrong.

IoM tech is not inferior to Tau tech.

The examples are everywhere.

Care to elaborate?

StormForged wrote:Care to elaborate?

Alright.

Superior Faster than Light Travel.

Superior Battleships.

Teleportation.

Stronger (Albeit more dangerous) Plasma Weapons.

Advanced Genetic Modification (Space Marines)

Graviton Gun

Conversion Beamer

Ect, ect.

The Tau surely have a more standardized level of technology throughout their 'Empire'; however, this does not mean that they are higher on the technologic totem pole. The Imperium's super advanced tech is simply no longer understood or produced (In any real numbers) but being that the Imperium is substantially larger than the Tau 'Empire' this fact does not even really matter.

A tech priest dosen't have to join the tau to get access to tau tech. All they need to do is be around the eastern fringe. The tech will bleed over from trade or from battles.

Oh I do believe that the tau have taken at least one forge world, but they disassembled it. I'll have to check on that though.

yeah the imperium is a special sort of screwed up technologically, they have giant freaking lasercannons on starships that traverse the warp that are hauled into place and aimed by teams of slaves and pulleys.

The average tau tech on a world might be more than the average imperial tech but at the imperiums height they are much greater. And the tech priests do really understand how some of this stuff works, just on an arcane basis, and then you have hereteks that actively learn about them and how they work.

I would say that if a techpriest was in league with the tau, then the Inquisition has work to take care of.

(Wait...would that fall under witchunters?)

for a heretek, the inquisition is the least of your worries, you'll be having secutors and the armies of the mechanicus after your ass. Which is why most of them when they are found out go into deep hiding or flee.

While outlaying Imperial worlds have joined the Tau, Tech-Priests come off as too fanatical to do so unless they were quite radical to begin with (in which case I'd put them more likely to hook up with the Dark Mechanicum).

Yeah, it's technically an Inquisition issue, Ordo Xenos, possibly Hereticus, but the Mechanicus doesn't always like to have the =I= poking around in its dirty laundry, so will send a Secutor team to deal with it.

BrainDeleted wrote:

StormForged wrote:Care to elaborate?

Alright.

Superior Faster than Light Travel.

Superior Battleships.

Teleportation.

Stronger (Albeit more dangerous) Plasma Weapons.

Advanced Genetic Modification (Space Marines)

Graviton Gun

Conversion Beamer

Ect, ect.

The Tau surely have a more standardized level of technology throughout their 'Empire'; however, this does not mean that they are higher on the technologic totem pole. The Imperium's super advanced tech is simply no longer understood or produced (In any real numbers) but being that the Imperium is substantially larger than the Tau 'Empire' this fact does not even really matter.

I will give you 'Space Marines' and 'Teleportation', however, I'm not going down without a good debate (and that I'll have to come back when I have more time).

By 'Superior Battleships' is Gellar Fields and Warp Travel; its not exactly a 'technilogical advantage' than a 'racial one'. Tau have absolutely no conception/connection to the Warp. They are not influenced mentally by it and thus, scientifically, it elludes them. The imperium of man, however, have special breeds of humans that are touched by the Warp, which you depend on for you to 'drive' through the Immaterium.

As far as Firepower in BattleShips, they're fairly equal. While the Imperium have weapons like Vortex Weapons and Extermanatus Protocols, the Tau Philosophy does not follow the same principles, so the necessary development of such weapons is never considered. It can be done, but it goes against the Greater Good.

Actually the Tau improved the plasma gun so it doesn't kill the Operator.

You say Conversion Beamer, I say Rail Gun
You say Titan, I say Manta.

But I will say the Grey Knights, (who use the best technology the Imperium has to offer) looks a little suspicious with a certain *cough*Knight. Because it really looks Xeno-influenced.

I'm not arguing about the table top effectiveness of a rail gun versus a conversion beamer. I'm talking about the fluff behind it. It converts matter into pure energy. That is extremely advanced technology that borders on wizardry. Although...The heavy conversion beamer seems like something I'd take over a rail gun any day if it didn't have the stupid fire every other turn and no moving rule which kinda sucks for a dreadnaught...Even if it is a contemptor

Imperial plasma technology used to work better and not explode...Either way, the Imperium considers the added power worth the risk of a life. Life is one of the most plentiful resources in the Imperium.

Geller fields and warp drives are technological achievements that have nothing to do with psykers. Navigators do the navigation but psykic energies or power does not make these pieces of tech work. Yeah, the Tau have an innate disadvantage in warp technology...But, so what? They might naturally suck at it but that doesn't change the fact that they still suck at it.

To note, afaik, the Imperium has bigger, faster (When moving FTL), and more heavily armed Battle ships. They also have a much larger variety of battle ships and capital ships in general. The biggest Tau ship is the Or'es El'leath (Custodian)-class carrier battle ship, followed by the Gal'Leath (Explorer)-class Starship. I don't want to go through the dizzying array of Imperial Battle ships but suffice to say there are a lot more classes than two.

We probably shouldn't have this argument again, but for what I know. The tau are much better with plasma technology then the IoM is. In the IoM, plasma is a rare and valuable weapon that only a few can make. For the tau, it's a component in there most basic weapons. The pulse rifle fires a plasma shot and it's literally there most basic weapon. So basic that the kroot gun even uses it.

As far as OP: I doubt they'd work directly with the Tau, as their philosohpies (or practicaliites in the case of the Tau) on technology differ too dramatically. We do know of lots of radical Techpriests and such who want to get ahold of and study Tau tech, though.

As far as "Which is better, Imperial or Tau tech" - that's a bit silly to say, because technology is a pretty broad and far reaching topic. Sufficed to say the Imperium is better at some things than the Tau are, but there are things the Tau are better at too. And there are lots of things where they are fairly equal (EG body armor). The problem most of the time anyhow isn't so much "Tau tech is outright better" so much as the fact the tau are, for various reasons, able to outfit their (native) troops far better than the average Imperial soldier (due to better and more reliable logistics usually.) It's quite possible for a IG regiment to be as well outfitted tech wise as the Tau are... if the Logistics Gods smiled upon them. The problem is, that's a big IF.

"BetteR" is also a completely arbitrary definition. Better in what ways? Power? Range? reliability? Ease of maintenance and repair? Manufacturing cost? Adaptability? Ammo concerns? etc. Equipment can run so many different traits and the desirability of some over others can vary depending entirely on the situation. Again it's bad to over-simplify.

It's also fallacious to assume the AdMech have zero understanding of how Tau technology works. They recognize their use of AI for example, so they have to know enough about the subject to at least recognize the characteristics. WE also know the Tau employ laser designators (which the Imperium also has), plasma weapons (also had by the Imperium), melta/fusion weapons (another thing they share), and EM weapons (like Railguns - most of these are large vehicle or starship weapons, but they have analogues for local scale like needle rifles which are specialist weapons, and Plasma weapons run on linear accelerators anyhow.) Do they know how everything works? Probably not. Do they know everything about some of the tech they even share? Probably not either. But again it's hardly either/or and its silly for people to treat it as an absolute either way.

Oh, and as far as Tau vs imperial plasma weapons.. the difference is that the Tau Plasma weapons (as I recall from the Codexes, at least) do not run at the ridiculously overcharged power levels Imperial plasma weapons do. They trade power for reliability. Imperial plasma guns are stronger, but they also run a far greater risk of instability.

Guys, hate to hijack a thread, but this is the kind of stuff I'd love to have some input on for the Farsight Enclave minidex I'm working on (now that I have a broken friggin hand and can't paint).

I'd appreciate it if anyone would drop in on my thread and contribute some ideas, fluff or crunch, I'd be happy to have it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/407169.page

Personally I think that any discussions of the Tau technological advancement have to be adjusted for time frame, the Tau have had a fraction of the time as a technologically active civilization compared to the imperium, and just a fraction of the resources. At their rate of development, if they haven't achieved technological superiority yet, it's just a matter of time; barring of course any developments involving warp manipulation.

well if you want to get into deep tech analysis the tau have an infantry weapon that destroys at least whole star systems if not universes in one shot. (you know because GW are so freaking stupid about phsyics and actually stated that railguns fire projectiles above 99% light speed)


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.Either way, the Imperium considers the added power worth the risk of a life.

lol, thats because marines can take the hit and guardsmen, well they're guardsmen.

gendoikari87 wrote:Hey are there any stories of a rouge techpriest working for the tau? I mean there's whole organizations of heretical techpriests that use science and OMG "innovation" to advance the quest for knowledge outside of the adeptus, so why wouldn't they join up with the tau? have the tau ever captured any forgeworlds?

Rouge Techpriests may work for xenos, Rogue Techpriests do not.

The rogues may study anything they can but they tend to be rare and thus as single lives don't count in a setting where no ones gonna be missed you won't hear of them. Plus they try to base their science and innovation on their understanding and approach to tech and most likely would "join" a human world on the borders of the IoM or side with their dark brethren.












rouge

Dark Mechanicum tech> Tau anyway, so who cares

Soladrin wrote:Dark Mechanicum tech> Tau anyway, so who cares

Maybe a logician that wants to investigate artificial intellegence?

now here's a question, what about a non rouge techpriest genetor or biologis going to a tau world to to study them? Not the tau tech, but THEM.

StormForged wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Correct, a by-the-manual Tech-Priest does not know, just by looking at it, how a Tau weapon works.

This is not to say that a Tech-Priest cannot learn how it works. After all, they reverse-engineered Eldar weapons to create Haywire Grenades.

Don't eldar use Haywire Grenades?

Yes they do, but maybe the imperium wanted to take the pro route

gendoikari87 wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Dark Mechanicum tech> Tau anyway, so who cares

Maybe a logician that wants to investigate artificial intellegence?

now here's a question, what about a non rouge techpriest genetor or biologis going to a tau world to to study them? Not the tau tech, but THEM.

Well they did it once before. It was a tech priest ship that discovered the tau and they took a few of them back for study. That was back when the tau where still cave men.

You might have an Explroator magos who trades with them to get ahold of their tech (There's one Explorator in Savage Scars who wants to grab Tau tech.. they even get ahold of some of their AG and they figure out how to use it and start taking it apart to see how it ticks.) Or maybe some AdMech go along to do industrial espionage or intel as part of some routine diplomatic mission (we know they have sent people to the Tau to negotiate or discuss things, much as there are sometimes ambassadorships between humans and the Eldar.)



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Also: I've never heard it clearly defined what sort of ship the tau captured, aside from it having a functional warp drive. And I doubt they were "cave men" - if you gave cavemen an F-16 they are not going to be able to build it no matter how collectivist or dynamic their culture is. Or blue their skin. You need a certain level of technical understanding before you can start building things, and you need the requisite grounding in science to gain that technical understanding. Modern cultures (nevermind starfaring ones) are built on a pretty big pyramind of development.

ambassadors? lolwut? what happed to "in the grimdark future of 40k, there is only war"?