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Who Lost Iraq? by Charles Krauthammer 11/04/2011162
CommentsWASHINGTON -- Barack Obama was a principled opponent of the Iraq War from its beginning. But when he became president in January 2009, he was handed a war that was won. The surge had succeeded. Al-Qaeda in Iraq had been routed, driven to humiliating defeat by an Anbar Awakening of Sunnis fighting side-by-side with the infidel Americans. Even more remarkably, the Shiite militias had been taken down, with American backing, by the forces of Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. They crushed the Sadr militias from Basra to Sadr City.

Al-Qaeda decimated. A Shiite prime minister taking a decisively nationalist line. Iraqi Sunnis ready to integrate into a new national government. U.S. casualties at their lowest ebb in the entire war. Elections approaching. Obama was left with but a single task: Negotiate a new status-of-forces agreement (SOFA) to reinforce these gains and create a strategic partnership with the Arab world's only democracy.

He blew it. Negotiations, such as they were, finally collapsed last month. There is no agreement, no partnership. As of Dec. 31, the American military presence in Iraq will be liquidated.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47311 for the rest...

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War for a previous Democrat failure.

Best,

I lol'd seriously hard at the comments. My favourite one, right at the top:

"Obama did not fail, he brilliantly succeded in his goal:
Middle East is in turmoil, tyranny wins, America humiliated, Christians are on the run, Muslims prevail. Freedom, capitalism and white race are Obama's only enemies (that's what he was taught by Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers and Saul Alinsky). "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". That is why he sides with our enemies.

This was the goal of this evil shrewd maniac from the very beginning. I know, it is hard, but once you realize it, all facts perfectly line up with reality.

It is not Obama, it is American people who blew it in November 2008. "

I can't believe these people actually exist. Right wing websites aren't great sources of information.

You aren't even trying anymore are you Phan?

Vietnam Presidents

1. Dwight Eisenhower (Republican) (sent advisors 1955-61)
2. John F. Kennedy (Democrat) (increased involvement of CIA and US ambassadors)
3. Lyndon Johnson (Democrat) (after Tonkin Gulf incident, sent US combat troops 1964)
4. Richard Nixon (Republican) (negotiated treaty 1973, withdrew troops, allowing collapse of the South)
5. Gerald Ford (Republican) (with funds cut off, declared the US war ended April 23, 1975)

This, of course is completely ignoring that the parties were very different at that time than they are now.

Phanatik wrote:He blew it. Negotiations, such as they were, finally collapsed last month.

Well...yeah. While there have been some shining successes, his foreign policy is like a bulldozer.

"Hey, we killed Bin Laden!" ("oh, and pissed off Pakistan")
"Hey, we dropped Ghadafi!" ("and tread all over the war powers act")
"Look, we took out Anwar al-Awlaki!" ("due process? What's that?")

Anyone who praises this guy as an improvement over Bush's foreign policy is either a fool or a partisan hack. Possibly both.

Well, at least he doesn't wave at blind people.

TrollPie wrote:Well, at least he doesn't wave at blind people.

Hey now. Just cause the guy can't see it doesn't mean they can't appreciate the thought

If I were blind I'd pretend everyone waved at me

Ahtman wrote:You aren't even trying anymore are you Phan?

Not really sure what this means.

I know that the Vietnam War was won, and then the democrats cut off funding to our allies, the North attacked again and overran the country, and then millions of vietnamese died.

Is that trying?

Regards,

TrollPie wrote:Well, at least he doesn't wave at blind people.

I'm not entirely sure how that's even tangentially relevant.

You might as well have said "at least he didn't marry a minotaur!"

US needs to get out of all the foreign countries we're in (save Afghanistan, that place is messed up). We aren't involved. We're in debt. We should just get out of those wars, spend some of the money normally spent on them on home defense instead and spend the rest on various underfunded programs (like the school system). Once we're a stable, powerful and successful nation maybe we could consider getting back involved in that sort of stuff. And yeah, I know my opinion is somewhat controversial and insane.

STOP ENDING YOUR POSTS AS IF THEY'RE LETTERS GOD DAMN YOU!!!

Also, I think Ahtman's meaning is pretty clear. You consistently post right-wing views in OT, asserting that everything is the fault of the Democrats, with full knowledge that it'll stir up a crapstorm. Then when people argue back you refuse to listen and repeat the same refuted points over and over until the thread is locked. Posting a link to an article written from an entirely Conservative point of view as if it's undeniable fact is just one in a long line of cases.

@Biccat - It's just a joke.

Because complex social, economic and religious interactions involving possibly tens of thousands of negotiators, administrators, policy makers, advisers, etc, etc, can all be subverted or messed up by a single person...

By the way, I have some pyramids that I want to sell you...

I don't get how some folks can quote/link Rachel Maddow and she's a "partisan hack".
Yet we're expected to take Charles Krauthammer as credible? Really?

Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me, Phanatik.

Seriously, do you get off by doing this? It really is extremely pathetic.

Karon wrote:Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me, Phanatik.

Seriously, do you get off by doing this? It really is extremely pathetic.

Na, he's a spoon. he enjoys stirring it up, imho.

TrollPie wrote:STOP ENDING YOUR POSTS AS IF THEY'RE LETTERS GOD DAMN YOU!!!

Also, I think Ahtman's meaning is pretty clear. You consistently post right-wing views in OT, asserting that everything is the fault of the Democrats, with full knowledge that it'll stir up a crapstorm. Then when people argue back you refuse to listen and repeat the same refuted points over and over until the thread is locked. Posting a link to an article written from an entirely Conservative point of view as if it's undeniable fact is just one in a long line of cases.

@Biccat - It's just a joke.

Who knows what passes for civility in The Land of Crystal Doom (really? Crystal Doom? and you're going to lecture me?), but as the internet lacks the normal cues of FTF discourse, I like to end my posts on a positive note to show that though we may disagree, it's all adult conversation.

This is OFF-TOPIC, so you can post almost anything you want. Did this confuse you?

What is surprising about people posting links to stuff that supports their pov, argument, etc.? Are you suggesting I'm the first to do this? Are you suggesting that lefties DON'T do the same thing? Careful, we might think you are full of sh...something.

Despite the lefty propensity to censorship of anything that doesn't agree with them, simply stating that facts/points of view they don't agree with are wrong doesn't make them wrong, or are refuted. Also, lefties are wrong on just about everything they believe in, and so will always find it hard to convince me of anything short of the Date or time of day.

Regards, and have a nice day...

P.S. (since this is a letter...) Charles Krauthammer is a well respected individual; when he talks, people listen. Perhaps you are more used to those paragons of journalistic virtue Politco people?

I really don't like the connotation that we lost a war.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Off a bit on this topic

Why does Krauthamerwhatever look like he had a plastic/botox/tiff neck to him? Not knocking him but his facial feature stands...out

Karon wrote:Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me, Phanatik.

Seriously, do you get off by doing this? It really is extremely pathetic.

I think I prefer your previous avatar. Seemed more appropriate somehow.

I doubt very little ceases to amaze you.

Ooh, you got me. You completely refuted the point of the article by launching a personal attack on someone you have no clue about. You're good.

Best,

Phanatik wrote:What is surprising about people posting links to stuff that supports their pov, argument, etc.?

No, but it is surprising that people think they can post essentially rubbish with no factual content and pass it off as some kind of revelatory expose without people realising they are posting rubbish

Are you suggesting I'm the first to do this? Are you suggesting that lefties DON'T do the same thing? Careful, we might think you are full of sh...something.

If the lefties all jumped off a bridge, would you want to jump off too?

Why not try to elevate politics out of the school yard, eh?

Despite the lefty propensity to censorship of anything that doesn't agree with them, simply stating that facts/points of view they don't agree with are wrong doesn't make them wrong, or are refuted. Also, lefties are wrong on just about everything they believe in, and so will always find it hard to convince me of anything short of the Date or time of day.

Really don't know if you are just trolling this...

Charles Krauthammer

I see the problem right there.

Jihadin wrote:I really don't like the connotation that we lost a war.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Off a bit on this topic

Why does Krauthamerwhatever look like he had a plastic/botox/tiff neck to him? Not knocking him but his facial feature stands...out

I believe he suffered a dibilitating accident and has been in a wheelchair for decades.
I always thought he looked a little bit like an old hound dog.

Regards,

Phanatik wrote:This is OFF-TOPIC, so you can post almost anything you want. Did this confuse you?

Normal forum rules still apply. I consider it impolite to say "Democrats lose yet another war." as if it's the fault of every democrat alive that politicians are incompetent.

What is surprising about people posting links to stuff that supports their pov, argument, etc.? Are you suggesting I'm the first to do this? Are you suggesting that lefties DON'T do the same thing?

I never suggested lefties don't do the same thing. Quoting an extremely biased report to support your side of the arguement is idiotic for a number of obvious reasons, no matter what it's biased against.

Despite the lefty propensity to censorship of anything that doesn't agree with them, simply stating that facts/points of view they don't agree with are wrong doesn't make them wrong, or are refuted. Also, lefties are wrong on just about everything they believe in, and so will always find it hard to convince me of anything short of the Date or time of day.

So what you're saying is, you believe all leftist views to be undeniably incorrect and nothing will change your mind. Then when people disagree with you you just say it's them evil Dumbocrats censoring anything that disagrees with them with shockingly obvious hypocrisy.

@Phan

thanks.

TrollPie wrote:

Phanatik wrote:This is OFF-TOPIC, so you can post almost anything you want. Did this confuse you?

Normal forum rules still apply. I consider it impolite to say "Democrats lose yet another war." as if it's the fault of every democrat alive that politicians are incompetent.

What is surprising about people posting links to stuff that supports their pov, argument, etc.? Are you suggesting I'm the first to do this? Are you suggesting that lefties DON'T do the same thing?

I never suggested lefties don't do the same thing. Quoting an extremely biased report to support your side of the arguement is idiotic for a number of obvious reasons, no matter what it's biased against.

Despite the lefty propensity to censorship of anything that doesn't agree with them, simply stating that facts/points of view they don't agree with are wrong doesn't make them wrong, or are refuted. Also, lefties are wrong on just about everything they believe in, and so will always find it hard to convince me of anything short of the Date or time of day.

So what you're saying is, you believe all leftist views to be undeniably incorrect and nothing will change your mind. Then when people disagree with you you just say it's them evil Dumbocrats censoring anything that disagrees with them with shockingly obvious hypocrisy.

When you climb down off your high horse tied up in front of your glass house to criticize someone on the left for doing the same thing, I will give your criticism credence. I won't hold my breath while waiting though...

I don't think I ever used the phrase "them evil dumbocrats" at any time. I have more self respect than that...

Best,

Lost the war over a SOFA agreement...what a croak. From what I understand their biggest tie up was US would not reliquish a soldier to face a Iraq court for something he/she did while on mission. They should be more worry when Iraq more then likely blow up with tribal groups go to war with each

SilverMK2 wrote:Why not try to elevate politics out of the school yard, eh?

Because his politics are as nuanced as seeing the world as either only Right or 'Lefty' with both sides existing only as extremes, and only his side is absolutely right no matter what.

Phanatik wrote:
When you climb down off your high horse tied up in front of your glass house to criticize someone on the left for doing the same thing, I will give your criticism credence. I won't hold my breath while waiting though...

Plenty of people on the left do the same thing. Seth MacFarlane, for example, constantly criticises Republicans for seeming to spend all their time hating without realising he's doing the exact same thing, on top of being an arrogant dick. But this is your thread, and that's not relevent at the moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:Why not try to elevate politics out of the school yard, eh?

Because his politics are as nuanced as seeing the world as either only Right or 'Lefty' with both sides existing only as extremes, and only his side is absolutely right no matter what.

He pretty much said exactly that himself. I can't believe I wasted my 1000th post in this thread.

TrollPie wrote:I can't believe I wasted my 1000th post in this thread.

Congrats though.

I think phanatic is a very apt name!

It's pretty easy to recognise leftist views because you can just see they are wrong and therefore are clearly leftist.