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Howdy YMDC, I've got a question for you.

I was wondering if the prow of a raider (that spiky bit all the way at the front) counts as part of the hull for disembarking, LoS and all other intents and purposes? I have always played it this way, but as I've been building my Wracks a pair of fly-ass rides, I found myself pondering on this for a very good reason. Shock Prows, an upgrade that Raiders can take, are notably longer than the regular prow provided for Raiders. I've taken shock prows on my Wrack carrying Raiders for the purposes of tank-shocking enemy troops into tight formations to make full use of my liquifier guns. If the prow does count as hull, it could be misconstrued as modeling for an advantage as the longer model has a number of advantages over shorter prows, such as having more places to disembark troops or a longer range with the template weapons as they're aimed from the hull of the vehicle. That's why I'm wondering if the prow is in fact part of the hull of the ship, or should it be ignored like the BRB says to do for gun barrels, antenna and decorative banners. Does the fact that it can be upgraded with a piece of wargear factor into the equation?

This is similar to the deffrolla argument, in that people wonder if you can "disembark" from the end of the rolla. Our FLGS plays it as a "No you can't", as it's not actually part of the hull of the vehicle.

The key is to be consistent - if you want it to count as the front for disembarking etc, then you must also agree to it being in range for weapons/melta etc.

This has been debated before, but I'll be darned if I can find the thread...

I would argue that it'd not decorative, like antennas gun barrels and such. Therefore it's part of the Hull and it takes all the good and bad of that aspect. You measure movements from it deploy using it as the Fran of the vehicle, and enemy's can shoot at it use it for melta and raid fire range and so on.

I would say no, just because I can't see a line of DE playing a balancing act running off the prow to disembark.

This is of course strictly from a logic stand point though

DarthSpader wrote:I would argue that it'd not decorative, like antennas gun barrels and such.

Antennas and gun barrels are not hull.

That's whats I'm saying. Prows are hull, not decorative like antennas gun barrels etc (as those are decorative and not hull). iPad auto correct ftw I guess : /

Like I said, I know this topic has been brought up before (more specifically the reinforced prow) and IIRC it turned into something like a 5 or 6 page debate. Very interesting read to say the least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ha ha, I found it, with minimal searching, here's the other thread...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/379404.page

Wargear isn't hull, thus you cannot disembark from it, nor can you disembark from decorative elements. You should always confirm what you and your opponent consider hull before games if there is room for discussion.

lol, we had this exact debate in my last game.

we rolled off on it, but at the end of the game we decided it wasn't.
Argument was if he wanted to consider it hull for disembark and movement it would logically be hull for shooting and cover.

we both basically agreed it wasn't "hull" it was an upgrade so we didn't count, but ymmv

I've always used the prow as part of the hull. Though I've never used the shock prow on it since I noticed it was visibly longer.

Prows themselves are just part of the model and not really decoration but a shock prow is wargear and kinda falls into the deff rolla arguement.

But the 1/8 inch difference doesn't make that much of an impact does it? So really what's the difference between standard prow and shock prow?

I've always played the prow/Deffrolla as part of the Hull. It gives my BW's a huge side arc to shoot at too. I've never had a complaint about it, other than the fact they can't Weapon Destroy a Deffrolla

The problem with using in as part of the hull is that you can shift the model around on the ball-jointed flight stand thereby hiding part of "the hull" by dipping or elevating it as you see fit.

The way I play it, is that it's just decoration.

Happyjew wrote:This has been debated before, but I'll be darned if I can find the thread...

That's because the scars still haven't healed. It was a .... uh .... "spirited" debate.

Ahh, it was a very, ummm interesting read, I remember that much about it...THose were the good days. 7 page arguments on whether a piece that is what half an inch longer? should count as hull or not...OH GOD!! FLASHBACKS!!!

You know the only way I can think to solve this is to look at instructions to build the Raider and see if those imply if the Prow is required to the construction of the model or not but I will be damned if I can find them since I built my raider.

I have played it as part of the hull so far but this thread has me questioning what I have been doing.

Saiisil wrote:You know the only way I can think to solve this is to look at instructions to build the Raider and see if those imply if the Prow is required to the construction of the model or not but I will be damned if I can find them since I built my raider.

I have played it as part of the hull so far but this thread has me questioning what I have been doing.

The raider kit comes with a "shock" prow and several normal Prows, Hull no doubt, nothing decorative about it imo, not like its a banner or anything.

Also to the point about angling them on their stand in a game, that is disallowed by the BGB, nowhere is permission given to change a models position on the stand

The raider doesn't come with a shock prow.

It only comes on the ravager spre, though people generally only want it for raiders..

My POV is that if you get to shoot at it i get to measure from it

Heh kinda funny, I mean it does come with I think 3 prow options than the shock prow.

So the raiders come with 3 with no SP option I guess, dunno they're in boxes upstairs.

Yup.

My ravagers get regular prows, as it's unlikely i'll be wanting to plow them into anyone if i can help it.

My raiders on other other hand..

*edit for spelling*

The way we look at it in our club is this.
Would you allow the prow/deathrolla to be deployed over the deployment line?
If you're measuring to/from it, then it's hull, and fair game for disembarkation.

We found that ignoring them caused too much silliness.