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So as I understand, Space Marines are the easiest 40k army to get in to. I've played WFB for 11 years now but never played a single game of 40k.

As such, I'm rather in the dark when going about writing an army list. From what I understand, 1850 is a full sized game. That is as much as I know.

What HQ is the best all around?
Elites?
Fast?
Heavies?
I have little to no clue on what to take. I like the idea of Sternguard as the elite infantry force. I have no idea how to equip troops either. Which weapon options are best for an all comers list?

Basically, HELP!

Your input is appreciated.

HQ depends on what focus you want to give certain units.

He buffs close combat troops (on the charge) if he's with them.
Librarian can buff from a distance.
Biker captains allow biker squads (certain size) as troops, not FA.

Elites: Sternguard or cc terminators. In a transport of some kind.
Troops: You can always 'combat squad' (allowing one part to provide fire for the other's advance OR claim more objectives - but it will increase your KP numbers (not always a good thing). I go with melta and missile launchers, myself. Plus a razorback.

Fast - assault squad with jump packs. At least one flamer.
Good for softening up units before you carve them up.

Heavies. Vindicator. Two of. One dies, two means they have to ignore something else to kill them.

1500/1750 and 1850 are standard games

you should probably start off with 1000 points and work your way up to 1250 then 1500.

A lot of the choices in the marine codex are pretty good and really depend on how you use them and what army you play. Look at the themed army you want then the units you want then look at reviews and tactics for each unit. Battle reports and personal experience from your LGS are good to. LGS undoubtedly.

Codex: Space Marines is very 'topheavy', in the sense that they have what feels like a million HQ choices, a large amount of which are pretty good. The named ones I see ran most frequently are Pedro, Vulcan, Shrike, and to a lesser extent, Lysander. The most frequent generic is probably the Librarian with Null Zone. I also like a chaplin with jump pack, but I also like to get laughed at for pretending to be Blood Angels. Realistically, if you're not taking a Librarian or a named HQ, you should get into Blood Angels instead, because they're literally better, with virtually no drawbacks.

Sternguard are pretty good. They're typically used as either a suicide melta squad via a droppod and some combi-weapons, or sometimes in a rhino as a heavy anti-everything platform. Pedro will make them scoring, which is a nice plus for him.

Other strong Elites include the Ironclad Dreadnought (I think he's elite) and Assault Terminators. Vulcan makes the thunder hammers in the assault terminators master crafted, which is good. A plain Dreadnought with a couple guns on it isn't bad either, but I wouldn't try to assault much other than vehicles with a non-Ironclad.

Fast attack is where I usually see suicide multimelta land speeders. I seldom see much else useful come from here.

Heavies... Vindicators are nice. Remember, 1 is none, 2 is one, and 3 is spam. Devastators are lackluster, but a good way to cram in some extra heavy weapons if you're hurting for them. If you take the Assault Terminators, you'll want a Land Raider here. I recommend the crusader as it feels the most flexible, but the Redeemer is nice also. Don't spend too much time on the Godhammer Land Raider. Remember, it's job is to roll forward and disperse its cargo, not be a gunboat. If you want a gunboat, take a Predator with sponson Lascannons and an Autocannon.

Captains are your generic HQ choices. They fight better than anybody else in the codex, and can get some decent equipment but they don't change up your army list much. If they're on bikes they let you take biker squads of a certain size as troops choices. Chapter Masters are Captains with an ability that forces them to stand still, don't buy Chapter Masters.

Chaplains let the unit they're with charge better. They're okay.

Librarians have different powers that can support your guys, kill other guys, or whatever. A lot of people swear by them, but I'm no fan of psykers.

Named characters usually change your army in some significant way. Vulkan lets your melta guns, flamers, and thunderhammers reroll misses. Khan lets you take bikes as troops and outflank. Pedro Kantor is probably the guy you want though. He makes Sternguard scoring, which means they can take objectives. Normally only troops choices can take objectives. Also, Pedro has a cool 12" bubble that buffs guys around him. Very useful.

Elites have Sternguard veterans, who you already have a shining towards. They're great anti-infantry, and can kill most troops and monstrous creatures without much trouble. There are also Terminators, in both the standard and assault varieties. Regular Terminators are good, spit out tons of anti infantry fire and can beat the piss out of anything in close combat. Assault Terminators have no shooting, but in addition to piss-beating, are very survivable due to a 3+ invulnerable save, or a ward save to you squarebasers

Tactical squads are your bread and butter troops choices. Put them in rhinos or drop pods, give their sergeant a power fist for some close combat punch, and gear them up for a specific role. If you want them killing hordes, a flamer and a heavy bolter will work. Tank busting, take a melta and multimelta. They're durable and mobile with rhinos. Scouts are fun support troops, but not great at anything but tying up enemies.

Heavy support is a good section. Predators with either an autocannon and heavy bolters or an autocannon and lascannon sponsons are great anti-horde or anti-tank, respectively. Never mix roles - a lascannon is wasted shooting at troops! Land Raider Crusaders are amazing transports and gunboats, Redeemers are great at killing other Marines, and standard ones are mediocre. Also, I will disagree with daedalus on Vindicators. 1 is none, 2 is area denial, 3 is 1. They are high priority targets and everyone will want them dead. Thunderfire Cannons are great anti-horde, but fragile. Whirlwinds are complete and utter garbage, don't even look at them.

I'm not much of an authority on Fast Attack, but land speeder squadrons with multimeltas make for great mobile anti armor. They can swoop around at 12" a turn and blow up tanks really well. Land Speeder Storms are not very good at all, and bikers are best if they're what your army is built around.

Anyway, that's not the most comprehensive list in the world but I hope it helps!

a few pointers i have come up with in many many games fighting marines, and i think they are useful tips regardless of the actual style you choose to play. there are alot of various styles, from pods, to gunline, fast assault and armor. you can foot slog, use rhinos, or bring land raiders and other heavy armor.

in either case some tips:

1. EVERYTHING else in the 40k universe is tested and desngied to fight and kill marines. unfortunitly your army has the joys of being most popular, but with being "king of the hill" everyone wants to knock you off. by this i mean, every army has a ton of AP 2-3 guns, higher initiave, power weapons and so on. your also going to be outnumbered.
2. with number one in mind, this is the most valable tip i can offer: "Keep your army TOGETHER" if yousplit your force youll get isolated and destroyed. (as per the items in 1) but by staying together you can focus your fire and benefit from mutual protection. by this i mean, if the other guy wants to charge your tactical squad, he may have to face the possibility of being shot to pieces after the assault, or getting counter charged by your reinforcments. if your seperated no such fear exists.
3. dont rely on your armor. yea its 3+ and toughness 4... but everything is usually str 4 or better, save for lazguns (and there are usually TONS of them). i have used this on many occasions - armor saving a unit to death. just keep piling wounds on, and that 3+ armor WILL FAIL. especially if there is plasma, melta, etc shooting as well. get in cover, use it. if you can get FNP, or other such TAKE it. your straight armor wont hold up out in the open.
4. your super humans are actually pretty average. just cause your fluff says they can kill whole armys single handed... well they cant. pretty much everything out there has the same or better S and T, simaler armor, and is probally as fast or faster on the init. the only exception is gaurd or the smaller bugs and grots. and in those cases your outnumbered 4-1 or more. this all kind of repeats to tip one, but stay together, use cover and dont expect your marines to bail you out.
5. finally, LD is your ace in the hole. your the only army that can regroup below half unit str, that dosent get ahnialted if caught when loosing assault (although you take fearless hits). and with calgar around you can choose to pass or fail any LD check on the table. (except psyker). add to that pretty much everything is LD 9 or 10 and you have a decent advantage. how to use this... well thats a touch trickier. but with calgar around you can auto fail morale checks, fall back, auto regroup and so on. you can retreat from a fight you wont win, and maybe bait your enemy into optimal firing lines and so on. no garentee that will work, but it is a high point.

as a side note, you also have acsess to some bad arse kit. landraiders when used corredctly can OWN a battle, likewise riflemen dreads or CC dreads can make a wonderful mess of enemy lines. you have acsess to demolisher cannons, tons of lazcannons, missile launchers and a nice varaity of plasma and melta. with the ability to take any kind of custom list you want you should be able to match well on any army.

best of luck. as for purchases on boxs, i suggest getting the codex if you dont have it already and draw up a small list featuring what you already have. play some games and make notes of what works and what fails. do this 3 or 4 or more times, and eliminate the stuff that fails in favor of more of what works. but as always, try to keep the same speed in your army, and stick together.

Ok, you like sternguard, so you elite choice should be made, at least until you start exploring other options.

Is there a chapter of marines you like?

Are you cool with drop pods? Sternguard work excellently with drop pods. Drop pod army sound like a good idea?

So lets craft you a good army:

If you take 3 units of 10 sternguard, with combi-weapons (lets say combi-melta) and a powerfist on the Sargent, then they can kill ANYTHING in the game. They have no fear. Take drop pods. Should run around 1080 points for these 3 units.

Now you need some troops at least to meet the minimum required, so lets try two units of tacticals with a powerfist and free flamer in each squad. That's 460 points.

We are already at 1540 points, and we need an HQ option.

Lets try two captians, with relic blades, artificer armor and digital weapons. That's 310 points.

This makes the list a 1850 list, where you drop from the sky with 3 drop pods on turn 1, and then have 2 pods of your choice in reserve. You can attach the captains to any squad you want, or you could attach them both to the same squad. Your sternguard will kill anything tank like in shooting, and will hurt anything else easily. They are you key units, your tacticals merely are there to provide support and allow your sternguard to all arrive turn 1

In terms of cost, using the current GW prices in USD form, we get:

5 drop pods, for $165
5 tactical squads, using the parts from the boxes and other tricks to make them appear just like sternguard, while keeping 2 of them basic looking tacticals, for 186.25
2 space marine commanders, which gives you even more decorations for the sternguard, for $40

And for 391.25 plus tax you have an effective all corners drop pod army that alpha strikes, focusing on sternguard and serves as a great starting point for a marine collection.

On a side note, if you like the iron hands fluff and want to base an armor on them, get the iron hands box set from GW. It comes with exactly the same stuff as the normal tactical box set, but comes with an additional bunch of iron hands metal shoulder pads, and legs, arms, heads that are modeled with bionics, for just $7.75 more

I'm thinking an Inquisition theme, but not Grey Knights.

The all drop pod army in an interesting idea, but I like the look of predator tanks on the field.

What HQ is the best all around?
Elites?
Fast?
Heavies?
I have little to no clue on what to take. I like the idea of Sternguard as the elite infantry force. I have no idea how to equip troops either. Which weapon options are best for an all comers list?

These questions are not applicable to vanilla marines. There is no "BEST YOU MUST TAKE THIS OR FAIL!" setup for vanilla marines. As much as I dislike some of our units we have a huge variety of perfectly viable builds, it's more of a question of taking a selection of units that actually support one another in a role rather than having a mismatched bunch of choices that were picked to "Not spam"...Heck with it, I will just go down the list with some thoughts:

HQ - Librarian for all around win for his cost, whether ran bone stock or with TDA + SS. Psychic hood, null zone, and then gate/avenger/vortex depending on taste. Chaplains are very situational nowadays, and fearless is a sword that is a little sharper on the side of the blade facing YOU. Captains and CMs are not a very good buy at the moment unless you want access to honor guard/command squads, or a bike army. For not many more points than a decked out CC monster HQ you can buy a special character to abuse special rules (Vulkan. Shrike. KHAAAAAAAAAAN.) or a supreme beatstick that may ALSO have lovely special rules (Calgar. Lysander. To an extent Cassius.)

Elites - There is almost no way to go wrong here. Dreads, regardless of the variety are all awesome IF you match them to your list or have a specific roll to fill. (Obviously, a rifleman or TLLC/Missile dread in a devoted CC list ain't going to contribute much, and likewise an ironclad in a shooting list may not be the best expense of points. But even the TLLC + DCCW can be made to work with surprising results.)

TH+SS in a dedicated transport land raider is also an obvious "Wow" choice (As to which, look at your list and your plan. Vanilla has the one Godhammer raider that can hold 5 terminators and an IC, and it is my primary choice unless I have a specific plan in mind. I find another pair of TLLCs much more handy than anti infantry dakka or burny that I should already have an abundance of elsewhere in my list, but there are no actually bad choices here.)

Sternguard, either ran with combiweapons to the gills and podding/rhinoing into the teeth of the enemy or as a miniature devastator squad/gunline anchorpoint with bolters and a pair of heavy weapons will ALWAYS manage to find a place in a shooting list. The odd man out is tactical terminators in my opinion, they got hit hard by 5e, and I find the 5++ isn't enough with the amount of power weapons on boards now when you are stuck with powerfists, their shooting firepower is lackluster, and they attract a lot of low AP fire they cannot stand up to. I'd skip, but some people make good use of them.

Troops - As much as I hate the 5e tactical squad, it's a lot better than scout squads for general purpose work. Two main ways to do this: One school of thought combat squads and has the sarge and special weapon running around in a rhino or razorback while the heavy weapon half supports from range. I am not of this school, I keep the option in mind but rarely consider it the better of my options. I find it only starts to shine when you have a -LOT- of tacticals on the board. The other school, has the squad moving around in a 10 man block of steel and rage. These are the hurricane bolters for my land raider that doesn't have them. These, carrying a powerfist, meltagun, missile launcher (it rarely gets to shoot, but hey, it's free and it allows options for the cost of one bolter shot. Big deal.) and sometimes a combi melta is a threat to anything on the board that the enemy must take into account, and it has enough bodies that it'll last until local support arrives, or allow the fist to swing, and if you steal the opponents charge it can blunt the advance of a pretty surprising amount of things.

Scouts can be eye wateringly nasty as well. Sniper+ ML scouts with telion can withstand a pretty severe amount of shooting and put a gigantic psychological threat on the board to some armies (Hey, you depend on hidden PKs? I have telion!) and make surprisingly good alpha strike troops when you fit them with meltabombs, a powerfist, and CC gear and put them in a land speeder storm. You will see first turn charges on immobile vehicles and weapons teams. You will hear calls of cheese through gritted teeth. It will be glorious until you wind up not getting first turn or siezed on.

That said, I spend no more on troops than absolutely necessary. Unlike newer codices where troops are some of the best units you have and you WANT to take them, here they are more of a tax than anything in my opinion. Take enough to be a threat, to last long enough to claim an objective, and no more than that. The troops section of the codex also produces more mud flinging and differing opinions than a presidential election, so take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt (Yes, even my advice.) try some interesting builds out. Try two or three different ones. Then try one you don't like very much just to be sure before you settle on one.

Fast attack - Land speeders are probably the king of this slot, and of them the MM/HF speeder for close range killing and versatility (Be aggressive with these. Get them into your opponents face and breaking things so that bullets go here rather than at the raider or vindicators.) or the typhoon sitting at a distance, plinking two krak missiles at vehicles or two frag missiles AND a heavy bolter at infantry every turn. Do not mix the two in your list, go all close, or all long range, mixing the two seems to just lead to tears. Do not run just one, use two or three. Do not run these in squadrons if you can avoid it (Unless you just really hate putting more KPs in your lists.) Land speeder storms I covered some of the uses of under the "Scouts" header. Someone who uses them more than I can comment further.

Bikes I will not comment on. I don't use them, all I know is that when you run them over with a land raider and have the terminators jump up and down on them they die.

Vanguard - Most people love to hate these. Other people put as many as they can into a rhino or land raider with a chaplain (And pedro, occasionally.) and a couple power weapons and pretend they have khornate berserkers. I find them hilarious, but ultimately secondary in utility to land speeders in the FA category and TH/SS overall. If these go above 30-35 points a model or so, make sure you also take the "I have a clever plan." upgrade, because these die as quickly as they tear through most light and medium infantry..that is to say "Instantly"

Assault marines - Another unit that was awesome in 4e, and now has been made lackluster by a variety of things. I use these with shrike for a 19-24 inch assault threat range, and a cheap scalpel to take out heavy weapon teams and light infantry. Usually the points are better spent elsewhere, as these do not have the versatility of BA melta assault marines, or even 4e "Every man has a melta bomb" assault marines. Good results can be had, no mistake, but there are more powerful and versatile choices.

Heavy support -

Vindicators - Another "One is none, two is one, three is the opponent calling spam." unit. Probably the most effective mobile firepower tank you have. You don't want to run just one, as it will almost never fire. Without power of the machine spirit, and with only one weapon you need to destroy to render it into a great AV13 piece of cover/battering ram/fleeing enemy escort, they need to be taken in multiple or not at all.

Predators - Cheap firepower. AC/lascannons or AC/HBs, depending on whether you want to hit medium armor or infantry with a side of light armor. Not very mobile if you want to actually direct firepower, but it's less vulnerable to a weapon destroyed result than a vindicator. Good all around tank, either way. (NOTE: Make sure you can protect the sponson weapons during transport. The model itself is not very durable, and you may find yourself with snapped off weapons rather quickly. Mine are detachable and have seperate compartments in the boxes.)

Devastators - 4 heavy weapons is 4 heavy weapons, but my first games in 5e were with my guard before I updated my marines, and my avatar was my reaction to devastators after noting how important mobility was going to be in this edition. For immobile firepower, they're awfully expensive in my opinion, particularly if you want something with more punch than missile launchers or heavy bolters(lol)

Whirlwind - The only good thing I can say about this vehicle is that it is cheap, and it provides your only source of non-LOS firepower, which drives an opponent absolutely crazy trying to kill it. 99% of the time, this has the turret taken off, replaced with a storm bolter and rhino doors, and used for a transport.

Thunderfire cannon - This is a great weapon to shoot at any infantry unit, or most light vehicles. Even heavy armor gets skittish when it has to take dangerous terrain tests every round. Absolutely amazing weapon....Uuuuuuuuuuntil someone deigns to attack it, and then it gets hit really hard by the artillery rules in the BGB. Very fragile unit. I do not like it.

For list building, well, what kind of army are you building? CC, shooty, or somewhere in between? After that, go down the list of possibile bigtime threats, like "What is my plan for dealing with AV14/horde infantry/MCs/lots of light vehicles/etc.? Do I have the ability to do that in my list? If I do not, is there something I can slightly modify to pull double duty and help bridge the gap? If I run into an army that does X thing better than me, can I outmatch them with Y?"

And...Keep in mind, you don't need a army changing special character to make the army viable. Combat tactics can pull a number of dirty tricks all on its own. Sometimes taking a special character can be counterproductive. If, for example, the only reason you are taking Vulkan is to turn 5 thunderhammers mastercrafted, consider instead taking the points, upgrading the land raider to a crusader and putting 3 more thunderhammers on the board. If you are taking lysander to put bolter drill on sternguard or tactical terminators, consider carefull why you are not putting 200 more points of sternguard or tacterms on the board instead.

Novel over. I'm going to go get drunk.

So, at this point, can someone help me write a list including the following:
at least 5 sternguard
2 predators with autocannons
at least 1 dreadnought
maybe cc termies

I'm pretty sure those are all things I want in my army. I just need to know what to start buying basically.

Sure, we can write a list for you that uses those things

HQ - Librarian w/ null zone + avenger - 100 pts

Elite- 5 sternguard (2x w/ combi plasma, 3x combi-melta) in a razorback - 190 pts
Elite- 5 Assault Terminators (4xTH/SS, 1x LC) in a Land Raider w/ multimelta, extra armor - 475 pts
Elite - Dreadnought w/ TL AC - 115 pts

Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts

Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts



This is primarily a shooting army, but with assault terminators and a dreadnought with a close combat arm, it can dish out some serious hurt to enemy super-units that you can't easily shoot to death. You have (counting all vehicle mounted weapons) -

5 lascannons (2 twin linked, all can be fired at different targets)
4 autocannons (1 twin linked)
10 heavy bolters (4 twin linked)
10 melta gun shots

Spread out over 9 vehicles, this should give you firepower and survivability.

Sternguard look great and with Pedro eliminate the need for more than two tactical squads or such (if you want to do that) and makes and elite force. Is fun but don't know how well that works...

Aerethan can you give me a theme idea for your space marine army? I know a lot about fantasy, so trying to make a comparison there works for me. Just saying that you want X units is all good, but I'll end up making the kind if list I would want, not the list you want.

I like the idea of mobile infantry. I know I want my sternguard in the action as fast as possible so perhaps a drop pod for them and rhinos for the tacticals.

I'd like an army focused on shooting. The theme is Inquisition, and I'll be using Grey Knight heads on every troop with a black and red paint scheme.

Ok mobile and shooty, using the units mentioned above, with some kind of inquisition theme.

Before I make the list, let me point out that your predators with autocannons won't be moving any if you want to fire more than autocannons on them. so I built them accordingly.

Anyway:

HQ-
Librarian with terminator armor, storm shield, epistolary upgrade, always take gate of infinity psychic power and one other of your choice, maybe force dome to help protect your sternguard - 190 points
Tactic- attach with sternguard and teleport around using biker locator beacon to never scatter

Elite-
5 Assault terminators - 200 points
Tactic- your hammer unit, for tough targets, hold in reserve and deep strike near bikers

10 sternguard, with powerfist and 9 combi weapons of your choice - 320 points
Tactic- The core of your firepower, combi melta would allow them to engage any target

Venerable dreadnought with twin linked lascannon, heavy flamer, extra armor - 220
Tactic- Draw fire, walk towards the enemy and keep shooting, deadly in melee

Troops-
10 tacticals with flamer, melta bombs on sergeant, in rhino - 235 points
Tactic- support fire and objective holding, melta bombs as backup vehicle destruction

10 tacticals with flamer, melta bombs on sergeant, in rhino - 235 points
Tactic- support fire and objective holding, melta bombs as backup vehicle destruction

Fast attack-
6 Scout bikers with cluster mines and powerfist - 165
Tactic- Move around providing locations for the sternguard to teleport to, while using cluster mines for tactical advantages, can also assault vehicles quite well but should stay out of melee otherwise

6 Scout bikers with cluster mines and powerfist - 165
Tactic- Move around providing locations for the sternguard to teleport to, while using cluster mines for tactical advantages, can also assault vehicles quite well but should stay out of melee otherwise

Heavy support-
Predator with dozer blade, hunter killer missile - 75 points
Tactic- Ranged light vehicle and infantry killer

Predator with dozer blade, hunter killer missile - 75 points
Tactic- Ranged light vehicle and infantry killer


That's an 1848 point list, themed towards what you want to do as much as I could manage while staying reasonably effective.

You will have trouble against massive amounts of heavy vehicles, but only if you end up rolling badly (which can happen...)

How to actually play this force is up to you, just remember the tactics I put in and learn how all your wargear works, plus the basics of 40k, and you should be fine.

I would suggest also thinking about using scouts as troops, with sternguard in a drop pod and two squads of terminators (the shooting kind) as another idea. Very inquistion like (scouts are acolytes, terminators are the kill team coming in)

Horst wrote:Sure, we can write a list for you that uses those things

HQ - Librarian w/ null zone + avenger - 100 pts

Elite- 5 sternguard (2x w/ combi plasma, 3x combi-melta) in a razorback - 190 pts
Elite- 5 Assault Terminators (4xTH/SS, 1x LC) in a Land Raider w/ multimelta, extra armor - 475 pts
Elite - Dreadnought w/ TL AC - 115 pts

Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts

Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts



This is primarily a shooting army, but with assault terminators and a dreadnought with a close combat arm, it can dish out some serious hurt to enemy super-units that you can't easily shoot to death. You have (counting all vehicle mounted weapons) -

5 lascannons (2 twin linked, all can be fired at different targets)
4 autocannons (1 twin linked)
10 heavy bolters (4 twin linked)
10 melta gun shots

Spread out over 9 vehicles, this should give you firepower and survivability.

I think I'm going to use this as my final list only adding a storm bolter to the librarian since I have a few points floating.

You should probably use something other than the melta gun in the "Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts."

You should give them a missile launcher, because its a free upgrade. use them for all three tactical squads.

And give the Dreadnought a TL Autocannon and either another TL Autocannon or an Assault Cannon, no use having him with a Dreadnought close Combat weapon, he is there fore more firepower.

and the assault terminators feel out of place in this list.

Horst wrote:
HQ - Librarian w/ null zone + avenger - 100 pts

Elite- 5 sternguard (2x w/ combi plasma, 3x combi-melta) in a razorback - 190 pts
Elite- 5 Assault Terminators (4xTH/SS, 1x LC) in a Land Raider w/ multimelta, extra armor - 475 pts
Elite - Dreadnought w/ TL AC - 115 pts

Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts

Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts

This is a really boring spammy as hell army list. The only saving grace is the Terminator squad in a Land Raider. I'm sure it'll be effective, it'll just get boring to play an army that redundant.

Brother SRM wrote:

Horst wrote:
HQ - Librarian w/ null zone + avenger - 100 pts

Elite- 5 sternguard (2x w/ combi plasma, 3x combi-melta) in a razorback - 190 pts
Elite- 5 Assault Terminators (4xTH/SS, 1x LC) in a Land Raider w/ multimelta, extra armor - 475 pts
Elite - Dreadnought w/ TL AC - 115 pts

Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts
Troops - 10 man tac squad(melta gun, combi-melta sarge, lascannon) in a razorback - 235 pts

Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts
Heavy- Predator w/ 2x HB + AC - 85 pts

This is a really boring spammy as hell army list. The only saving grace is the Terminator squad in a Land Raider. I'm sure it'll be effective, it'll just get boring to play an army that redundant.

It could be WAY spammier

Granted, this isn't the kind of list I play.... but it would be simple and effective as a first list, and you could make it more varied and interesting as you learn to use marine units.

gaovinni wrote:Sternguard look great and with Pedro eliminate the need for more than two tactical squads or such (if you want to do that) and makes and elite force. Is fun but don't know how well that works...

Noooooooo...oooooo...ooooo.

Pedro makes marines, sternguard especially, significantly worse. I know this sounds bizzare, but hear me out.

With Pedro giving nearby marines +1A, they become WS4 S4 I4 A2. Sounds OK, right? He takes away one of their handiest abilities, to be able to bail from combat easily when they start losing, and instead give them Stubborn, which makes them FAR harder to get out of combat. Now, that statline is OK. Alright. Mediocre. If a dedicated assault unit gets them into combat, the assault unit will win. And because you traded your "We're getting shredded, let's run away" ability for stubborn on Ld9.

Now, Pedrosterns. Making (IMO) the best unit in the book scoring. Sounds good, right? Again, no. Sternguard become A3. A bit better, but they're also significantly more expensive than tacticals. Plus, you're not paying that extra for their close-combat ability (and if you are, have you ever considered playing Blood Angels?). You're paying for tricked out bolters, lots of cheap combis, and 2 special/heavies in a <10 man squad. Now, what is the main way of stopping a unit firing their tricked out bolters, lots of cheap combis, and 2 special/heavies in a <10 man squad? Of course, getting them into combat. But wait, marines have Combat Tactics, they can auto-fail morale! Oh, no, little Timmy, remember, you traded away your falling back for Stubborn. On Ld9. You're probably never going to see outside of combat ever again. And THAT'S why I don't even use Kantor in my Crimson Fists.



On the subject of that list that was posted. What I would say is switch the lascannon on the tacticals for a ML. You're trading 1 point of S and a bit of range for a good bit of anti-horde by being able to drop blasts. I would also say switch the two combi plasmas on the sternguard to combi flamers, but that's just down to a personal aversion to plasma weaponry.

Good call on the 3 predators though, AC/HB preds are an incredible bargain for decent anti-light armour, anti-horde and anti-heavy infantry.


Oh, and if you need to free up points (and you might), I've always found razorbacks to just be too expensive for what they do. I far prefer rhinos just for the firing ports. It basically creates a bunker. The common setup for that kind of play is a 10-man tac squad, flamer and multi-melta. You basically create a bubble that the enemy will think twice before entering with a tank.