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Okay, boys and girls. New codex is out, new problems arise.
None that we can't solve though, right? This time, we're going to be conservative before we cry about OP. We look at it all objectively and neutrally. The entire Necron Codex is competitive, but really quite fair overa-hmm, what's this here on page 50?
Well, that can't be right, can it? That's lunacy.
...no? Really? That's actually its statline? No need to hit? Able to fire the death ray and tesla destructor after deep strike? Easily hit multiple tanks with an S10 AP1 template that is basically impossible to miss with on a deep strike?
...okay...I take back everything I said about this : Matthew Ward is a taint. And anyone who fields three of these will not only be able to instantly obliterate most mechanized lists, but should be punched in the nose for it.

Slight exaggerations aside, how does a Razor-BA, Venom-DE or Chimera-IG player counter this insane little fellow? Or three of him? Especially when he's backed up by Night Scythes with their "ultra-autocannons", and maybe a few deep striking heavy gauss cannons just to round things out?
Do we just pack up our things and go home? Field a crap-ton of infantry to try and bubble-wrap our tanks so they won't be murdered? Stop fielding multiple-transports entirely, to heck with every other codex? Just hope Necron players are all really honorable, stupid, or both?

I'd like to see some suggestions on how mechanized lists should deal with the Doom Scythe, is what I'm saying. As would a DE player I hold dear whose opinion on this is essentially "The entire codex seemed fine until I got to the part where the by far best Heavy Support choice auto-penetrates multiple of my vehicles with AP1, with no risk of DS mishap even if they deep strike due to range".

If this comes off as whiny instead of mostly joking, it would appear that the medium of text has failed my communications attempts yet again.

Step 1: Realize he's only got AV 11.
Step 2: Pretend he's a rhino.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!!!

1. SPREAD OUT. We have insane maneuverability, use it!
2. Realize that flickerfields are nifty - 1 in 3 ignored. Flatout also helps.
3. Realize that nightshields troll the cr@p out of this weapon.
4. Realize that if all else goes to the crapper, you can always give the enemy first turn and reserve everything.
5. Realize that blasters/lances wtfpwn the majority of necron vehicles.
6. ???
7. Profit!

I don't think nightshields effect the death ray at all.

You pick a point on the board, and measure from that point. your not targeting a vehicle at all, so I really doubt it would reduce the range.

I had a similar analysis when I read it (between that and Tesseract Labyrinths). I'm probably gonna pop smoke, but honestly it's better than having an infantry squad get caught in the open.

This is the doom of IG Mechvets. No pun intended.

I won't be fielding any...until they release a kit for the model.

It's a transport/heavy dual kit, so they'll probably cost $48 apiece when the come out like the Ghost ark. For someone to spam 9 of them that's $450 dollars worth of plastic, before putting models inside them. I'd say you're more likely to see 1 or 2 doom scythes and 2 or 3 night scythes in tournament necron lists after the kit comes out. Until then, do as others have said, spread out your tanks when you know it's coming, pop smoke, hope he rolls 1,2,2 on his 3d6 range and then after the smoke clears let the long fangs do what they do best - shoot it.

yeah I was about to say, its only AV11 XD lasbacks anyone?

DPBellathrom wrote:yeah I was about to say, its only AV11 XD lasbacks anyone?

Well a deep striking up to 30" auto hitting STR 10 AP1 through multiple units one hit wonder isn't to bad. Terms and vehicles would be priority targets. But at 175 pts folks may play it differently.

They're not as bad they sound. On average you'll get 10 inches or so for distance on the Death Ray, and that should hit at most 3 vehicles, more likely 2 unless you really have em in a parking lot. And as any Tau player will tell you a single S10 AP1 hit is no guaranteed wreck.

They're very much one-hit wonders, besides. They can't weather returning fire at all with their AV11. Shoot a few lances/lascannon/rokkits back and 175 pts go down in flames.

Because its completely horrendous when mech-spam lists feel the same hurt horde lists have been feeling for some time?

the_ferrett wrote:Because its completely horrendous when mech-spam lists feel the same hurt horde lists have been feeling for some time?

Because this was totally a thread whining about how OP it is instead of trying to quash that by coming up with a logical and reasonable counter.

Shoot it... In the face... Not that hard...

3d6" range is 10" on average. For 175pts? Who's scared of this?

Lokas wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:Because its completely horrendous when mech-spam lists feel the same hurt horde lists have been feeling for some time?

Because this was totally a thread whining about how OP it is instead of trying to quash that by coming up with a logical and reasonable counter.

This is where the OP feels sad because he outright SAID he was being over the top and sarcastic, and people are still acting like it's a serious whine. Or where I feel sad because you were both being sarcastic and we're all unable to perceive it through the internet.

Deploy units on foot (gasp!) surrounding your transports so that they can't Deep Strike close, then shoot it when it comes in. IG have it especially easy since they can take Hydras. This unit-- while scary-- is not as big a threat as it seems, since it costs 170 points, is extremely vulnerable, and competes with some very good units in its slot.

What about this thing against Greent Tide or Nids?
The player only has to hit a line on 2 models (one from each unit) and could get 60 auto str 10 ap 1 hits on 2 30 boy mobs.

I am just amazed that there is a unit that literally cannot miss.

As I read it, there is no roll to hit. There is no scatter. You only roll to see how far your death ray can go.

So, you have a unit that can move 12", fire up to 12" and then extend that range by 3d6", and oh by the way is autohitting everything in the way. Yes, it will not withstand the counter fire, but if they go first, 3 of those could ruin your day fairly easily.

Green is Best! wrote:What about this thing against Greent Tide or Nids?
The player only has to hit a line on 2 models (one from each unit) and could get 60 auto str 10 ap 1 hits on 2 30 boy mobs.

I am just amazed that there is a unit that literally cannot miss.

As I read it, there is no roll to hit. There is no scatter. You only roll to see how far your death ray can go.

So, you have a unit that can move 12", fire up to 12" and then extend that range by 3d6", and oh by the way is autohitting everything in the way. Yes, it will not withstand the counter fire, but if they go first, 3 of those could ruin your day fairly easily.

Might want to read it again, the unit suffers a hit for every model in the unit that is under the line, not ever model in the unit.

Edit: At least that is how I read it, but on closer inspection, both views might have merit. (have to check YMDC it seems)

You are right. I completely misread it. OK, retract my earlier whining.

However, I am still a little annoyed at a str 10 ap 1 shot that never misses.

i treat it as Jotww except you pick which models are hit not necessarily the models under the line (stops character sniping)

Yeah, aside from a minor threat from the tesla destructor, the doom scythe really poses no real threat to horde units...unless you decide to try to form a conga line or wall with them.

This thread is the first I've heard about the doom scythe having DS. If it does then standard DS defense should help (spread out). If not, it has no QS, and the only real defense it has is the flat-out save (volume of fire) and possibly night-fighting (ordnance, spotlights, barrage, blacksun, DE anything).

That being said, if all else fails, offer up a sacrificial unit, then blast the sucker as it has it's pants down next turn. More than likely it'll be a points trade off well in your favor.

Thanks for the help, guys. I think I have a workable solution now. It's definitely going to hurt my list when going against IG, but I'll remain TAC in most other respects.

For Ig Mech Vets: Reserves! Stick your stuff in reserve and you've got a good chance of the Scythe arriving before you do, then it's a simple matter of popping the thing on your way onto the board. Even if you arrive first (by going first primarily) just pop smoke and hope for the best. Spread out a bit so it can only hit maybe two chimera on average dice.

It's a nifty vehicle, but manageable.

ryzouken wrote:For Ig Mech Vets: Reserves! Stick your stuff in reserve and you've got a good chance of the Scythe arriving before you do, then it's a simple matter of popping the thing on your way onto the board. Even if you arrive first (by going first primarily) just pop smoke and hope for the best. Spread out a bit so it can only hit maybe two chimera on average dice.

It's a nifty vehicle, but manageable.

What about the rest of the Necron army that doesn't reserve? You do realize that this will give the Necron player time to move everything into position to take out your army as it only has to fight around half of your army at a time, right?

Spread out, then kill it.

Honestly, for its points, it will have to do some heavy dmg on the turn it drops to justify its use. Only time will tell if it is worth its points in an "all comers list" as people start to deploy in a way to deal with it. When tailoring for certain opponents however, (Parking-lot IG/SM, or LR/BW spam for example) it will be simply amazing.

Orks will have the hardest time with it, given that Kanwall, Speed Freaks (trikks) and BW spam are forced to clump up for the KFF.

Eldar will have the easiest time with it, since they have plenty of speed to spread out, are built to play the reserves game, and WS Energy field drops its strenght to 8, as long as they can cover their rear armor from being targeted.

Doesn't sound so deadly to me. I don't have a vehicle on the board that isn't right next to several melta/plasma vets.

How to deal with it?

With tactics

The Doom Scythe's rule is poorly worded - it doesn't say how big the line is

Does it mean laser pointer, tape measure, or pointy stick

I assume it means all models directly under the los, but how wide is that? Personally I'd use a tape measure and treat it like a blast weapon, but until it's FAQ'd and until a model is released I wouldn't worry about it. If you position everything right it won't be that scary and will pretty much be a one hit wonder, if I used it I know it's line range would probably be 3'' everytime

warspawned wrote:The Doom Scythe's rule is poorly worded - it doesn't say how big the line is

Does it mean laser pointer, tape measure, or pointy stick

I assume it means all models directly under the los, but how wide is that? Personally I'd use a tape measure and treat it like a blast weapon, but until it's FAQ'd and until a model is released I wouldn't worry about it. If you position everything right it won't be that scary and will pretty much be a one hit wonder, if I used it I know it's line range would probably be 3'' everytime

The 'draw a line' weapons have all been faq'ed in the past as being a 'hairline' so I would play it as the same in this case.

Eldar will have the easiest time with it, since they have plenty of speed to spread out, are built to play the reserves game, and WS Energy field drops its strenght to 8, as long as they can cover their rear armor from being targeted.

Well, mech Eldar armies are often based on S6 spam (also mine). But with quantum shielding, Necron vehicles have AV 13 and so are immune to S6 shooting. It appears that I'll need to take some eml's...

The thing that bothers me is spreading out on the typical 4x4 table is not going to be that easy. And by turn 2 or 3 your going to be inside thier 24" bubble of death anyway. I'm thinking the best thing to do is have the troops carry plasma and melta guns so that when thier ride gets poped the thing should be close enough that if they haven't been gaussed to death, should be able to pop the thing. I dunno I'm guy that hated playing against Crons' BEFORE they got revamped.