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I am trying to make a necron assault base army bu i have no idea about please any givee me your idea and shard with us.

Is it make able?

Good enough?

Wraiths are perphaps the best necron assault unit. I would make an necron assault army based off of them.

Then add spyders and c'tans for some extra nastiness.

My idea for a necron assault army (no clue how many points it is):



Destroyer Lord - 2+ save, Res Orb
2-3 Crypteks with lances, 1 w/Solar Pulse
Destroyer Lord - 2+ save, Res Orb
1x Cryptek w/lance + Solar Pulse

C'tan
C'tan
C'tan

3x5 min-sized troop choices

6x Wraiths w/coils
6x Wraiths w/coils
10x Scarabs

3x Spyders - different wargear for wound allocation
3x Spyders - different wargear for wound allocation
3x Spyders - different wargear for wound allocation


Destroyer lords join wraiths for 4+ Reanimation. Spyders make 9 baby scarabs each and every turn!!!

Wraiths don't get Reanimation Protocols.

Good luck making necrons work as an assault army when they don't have real assault units. I2 on orks is bad enough, but at least they have furious charge... Necrons don't, and don't have the bodies or fearless that orks have. The handful of units that are on paper good in assault will fold against real assault units (or even units that pretend to be assault units honestly). That isn't to say that you can't have some assault units in a necron army. A unit or two as a counter assault unit isn't a bad idea, but as a main theme plays against the strengths of the codex. Necrons are really strong at mid range shooting, use assault units to keep enemy units where you want them (close enough to shoot, far enough away you can attrition them).

jy2 wrote:Wraiths are perphaps the best necron assault unit. I would make an necron assault army based off of them.

Then add spyders and c'tans for some extra nastiness.

My idea for a necron assault army (no clue how many points it is):



Destroyer Lord - 2+ save, Res Orb 200 points or so
2-3 Crypteks with lances, 1 w/Solar Pulse 125 pts (if 3)
Destroyer Lord - 2+ save, Res Orb 200
1x Cryptek w/lance + Solar Pulse 55

C'tan 250
C'tan 250
C'tan 200

3x5 min-sized troop choices - 195

6x Wraiths w/coils - 270
6x Wraiths w/coils - 270
10x Scarabs - 150

3x Spyders - different wargear for wound allocation - 150
3x Spyders - different wargear for wound allocation - 150
3x Spyders - different wargear for wound allocation - 150 (base cost)


Destroyer lords join wraiths for 4+ Reanimation. Spyders make 9 baby scarabs each and every turn!!!

so 2600 or so points

Sasori wrote:Wraiths don't get Reanimation Protocols.

Damn. Well, drop the resorbs. As a matter of of fact, drop the destroyer lord for a normal overlord w/warscythes on command barge (or maybe 2 if the points allow).

notabot187 wrote:Good luck making necrons work as an assault army when they don't have real assault units. I2 on orks is bad enough, but at least they have furious charge... Necrons don't, and don't have the bodies or fearless that orks have. The handful of units that are on paper good in assault will fold against real assault units (or even units that pretend to be assault units honestly). That isn't to say that you can't have some assault units in a necron army. A unit or two as a counter assault unit isn't a bad idea, but as a main theme plays against the strengths of the codex. Necrons are really strong at mid range shooting, use assault units to keep enemy units where you want them (close enough to shoot, far enough away you can attrition them).

Honestly, this post really shows that you have zero idea what you are talking about. The Necrons have several dedicated assault units, that compete with other codexes dedicated assault units.

Do I think it's a good idea? No, it doesn't play to the strengths of the Codex. To say that that they don't have real assault units, is just ignorant though.

Build a royal court (or two) of five lords with mindshackle scarabs (and whatever other upgrades you want) and five of the crypteks with the aeonstaves. Keep the lords in front screening the crypteks and have fun.

Beyond that, a max unit of flayed ones would be nasty (20x4 attacks on the charge) if you have 'em. I'm sure not many/any people do.

Wraiths and lychguard.

After that, pick some heavy support for good measure. Couple of annihilation barges maybe?

WS4 seems like the huge limitation throughout the whole army basically. You don't get that many attacks to start with, and when half of them miss...

Flavius Infernus wrote:WS4 seems like the huge limitation throughout the whole army basically. You don't get that many attacks to start with, and when half of them miss...

On what? several of our models have 3-4 attacks base.

Not to mention that you should be the one doing the charging, so that's hopefully another +1 attack.

Sasori wrote:

notabot187 wrote:Good luck making necrons work as an assault army when they don't have real assault units. I2 on orks is bad enough, but at least they have furious charge... Necrons don't, and don't have the bodies or fearless that orks have. The handful of units that are on paper good in assault will fold against real assault units (or even units that pretend to be assault units honestly). That isn't to say that you can't have some assault units in a necron army. A unit or two as a counter assault unit isn't a bad idea, but as a main theme plays against the strengths of the codex. Necrons are really strong at mid range shooting, use assault units to keep enemy units where you want them (close enough to shoot, far enough away you can attrition them).

Honestly, this post really shows that you have zero idea what you are talking about. The Necrons have several dedicated assault units, that compete with other codexes dedicated assault units.

Do I think it's a good idea? No, it doesn't play to the strengths of the Codex. To say that that they don't have real assault units, is just ignorant though.

It just goes to show people have different ideas on what a real assault unit is. Necrons have units that are pretty decent in cc, but nothing that screams out power assault units like you see in some other books. The units that could be considered to be great cc units, don't compare well in price to other books.

Flayed ones: I2 and no power weapons or rending, and 4+ armor. Good number of attacks and a reasonsable point cost. Not fearless, will get swept by units that are better in CC (and this includes some armies troop choices). 13 point ork boyz with added durability isn't that great when you get ran down.
Lynchguard: I2, 3+ save on a 40 point one wound model. At least it has 2 attacks per model unlike...
Triach Praetorians: I2, 1 attack 3+ save on a 4 point one wound model
Ctan shards: Scary, but no longer immune to bolters, costs mount up on this areadly expensive model.
Triach stalker: not too bad... except for the usual I2. Same problem with all non fleet walker models trying to reach CC. Not a cheap unit either.
Wraith: I2, no reanimation protocals. At least it has a fair number of good attacks and 2 wounds. Rending is nice Might actually be worth the 35 pts.
Scarabs: I2, crappy attacks against non vehicles. 5+ save, t3. no reanimation. Spiders can make them into a very annoying tarpit, and they can put out the crap wounds on crappy infantry pretty well. Swarm and beasts and a fair number of wounds make them into an annoying unit. At their cost you will see these quite a bit. Still not a real assault unit, but its too good to pass up. (role similar to wyches)
Spyders: I2, WS3 2 attacks. Good stats otherwise, going to be used for making scarabs mostly.

Some of the good assault units are pointed like terminators, but don't have the attacks or initiative. The 3+ armor on terminator costed models with low Initiative means you will take horrible losses before you even get to strike. Getting swept up prevents reanimation, which means their added durablity is largely an illusion. Mostly the problem necron assault units have is they cost too much to get enough bodies on the table to make up for the low initiative. The good values appear to be wraiths and scarabs, though neither are especially durable past the multiple wounds. They also take up the same FOC slot, which cripple the ability to make an assault focused army. The troops aren't capable in assault at all, which means a full assault army isn't going to be good (min troop armies don't do well in objective missions).

notabot187 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

notabot187 wrote:Good luck making necrons work as an assault army when they don't have real assault units. I2 on orks is bad enough, but at least they have furious charge... Necrons don't, and don't have the bodies or fearless that orks have. The handful of units that are on paper good in assault will fold against real assault units (or even units that pretend to be assault units honestly). That isn't to say that you can't have some assault units in a necron army. A unit or two as a counter assault unit isn't a bad idea, but as a main theme plays against the strengths of the codex. Necrons are really strong at mid range shooting, use assault units to keep enemy units where you want them (close enough to shoot, far enough away you can attrition them).

Honestly, this post really shows that you have zero idea what you are talking about. The Necrons have several dedicated assault units, that compete with other codexes dedicated assault units.

Do I think it's a good idea? No, it doesn't play to the strengths of the Codex. To say that that they don't have real assault units, is just ignorant though.

It just goes to show people have different ideas on what a real assault unit is. Necrons have units that are pretty decent in cc, but nothing that screams out power assault units like you see in some other books. The units that could be considered to be great cc units, don't compare well in price to other books.

Flayed ones: I2 and no power weapons or rending, and 4+ armor. Good number of attacks and a reasonsable point cost. Not fearless, will get swept by units that are better in CC (and this includes some armies troop choices). 13 point ork boyz with added durability isn't that great when you get ran down.
Lynchguard: I2, 3+ save on a 40 point one wound model. At least it has 2 attacks per model unlike...
Triach Praetorians: I2, 1 attack 3+ save on a 4 point one wound model
Ctan shards: Scary, but no longer immune to bolters, costs mount up on this areadly expensive model.
Triach stalker: not too bad... except for the usual I2. Same problem with all non fleet walker models trying to reach CC. Not a cheap unit either.
Wraith: I2, no reanimation protocals. At least it has a fair number of good attacks and 2 wounds. Rending is nice Might actually be worth the 35 pts.
Scarabs: I2, crappy attacks against non vehicles. 5+ save, t3. no reanimation. Spiders can make them into a very annoying tarpit, and they can put out the crap wounds on crappy infantry pretty well. Swarm and beasts and a fair number of wounds make them into an annoying unit. At their cost you will see these quite a bit. Still not a real assault unit, but its too good to pass up. (role similar to wyches)
Spyders: I2, WS3 2 attacks. Good stats otherwise, going to be used for making scarabs mostly.

Some of the good assault units are pointed like terminators, but don't have the attacks or initiative. The 3+ armor on terminator costed models with low Initiative means you will take horrible losses before you even get to strike. Getting swept up prevents reanimation, which means their added durablity is largely an illusion. Mostly the problem necron assault units have is they cost too much to get enough bodies on the table to make up for the low initiative. The good values appear to be wraiths and scarabs, though neither are especially durable past the multiple wounds. They also take up the same FOC slot, which cripple the ability to make an assault focused army. The troops aren't capable in assault at all, which means a full assault army isn't going to be good (min troop armies don't do well in objective missions).

Flayed ones, don't have much going for them except weight of Attacks.

Lycheguard are pointed like terminators, because it's been shown that they match TH/SS Termies in combat. I2 hurts, but against most of the attacks that T5 is worried about, will come after I2. If you throw in an Orb to this unit, they come out the clear winners, and can take on any elite dedicated close combat unit.

Praetorains I'm not a fan of either.

C'tan can deal with hordes and most dedicated assault units, depending on the powers you give it. Not the most cost effective example.

Triarch Stalker I don't really consider a CC unit.

Wraiths are probably the best CC unit in the Book. They have a 3++, Ignore Terrain, rending, throw whip coils on a few, and you'll hit first even assaulting into cover. These things shred horde and Dedicated CC infantry.

Scarabs are not the best at taking out infantry, but they can tarpit them to all hell at least. I'd say using them for infantry would be a complete waste, unless there was nothing on the board.

Spyders can also equip to pull wound allocation as well, making them much more survivable.


I don't see how you can say Wraiths aren't durable, with 2W and a 3++?

I'm not saying you can make a CC Necron army viable. I don't believe you can. I was just pointing out that saying we have no good dedicated assault units, is rubbish.

I've been working on this for the past few days. Change according to your personal preferences.

Overlord w/ Warscythe - 100
3x Harbringer of Destruction w/ 1x Solar Pulse - 125

5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65
5x Warriors - 65

6x Wraiths w/ 4x Whip Coils - 250
6x Wraiths w/ 4x Whip Coils - 250
6x Wraiths w/ 4x Whip Coils - 250

3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150
3x Spyders - 150

Total - 1750

3++ is nice, but Its still just T4 and no reanimation. They can be made to work like nobs without FNP, except without the PKs or FC, or enough options to make them diverse. Its not going to be especially hard to kill a unit with some splinter or bolter fire. They are durable, but probably not durable enough to make up for fact they go at I2 and don't power weapons or fists. At their point value I can't say I like their durability.

I don't like lynchguard because they don't pass what I call the wyche test. Their save isn't invulnerable, their int is slow, and they cost too much for every lost model. They don't do well against S5 or splinter fire. If wyches get a change to shoot and charge should kill at 1-2 with normal attacks, and 1 with the agonizer. Giving the benefit of the doubt to lychguard, only 2 total die, 6 attacks back, 3 hits, under wounds, 1.25 dead wyches. Less points in wyches beats in cc the best cc unit necrons have. Wyches are a basic troop.

Against basic marines, non LC termies, and even assault marines (a joke i know, who other than BA uses these?) lychguard do fine, but against certain units that happen to be troops in other armies (like bloodletters and wyches) they aren't all that great.

They are transported in a skimmer that is not open topped nor (as far as I can see) an assault vehicle. Infantry movement means they won't get very far while under fire.

The whole trick to necrons assaulting is to have your wraiths in the right place at the right time. Whip coils are absolutely essential for any necron assault. They lower any opponent in base contact to Initiative one(no matter what), so any four wraiths should be able to make most squads go after you(a ork mob not so much). Since wraiths are not affected by terrain at all(no terrain is difficult to them and they auto pass dangerous terrain tests) you should be able to full advantage of the terrain on any board(not for the saves obviously, but to block LOS and move their full 12 inches plus run without being slowed or hurt). Any combination of wraiths(with whips), scarabs, flayed ones and spyders should be able to destroy basically anything. Wraiths get 4 rending attacks on the charge, scarabs get 5 normal attacks on the charge and flayed ones get 4 normal attacks on the charge. Since wraiths are jump infantry, and scarabs are beasts they should get the charge every time as long as you manage to position them well.

Some necron assault tactics i was thinking of was having flayed ones infiltrate the board(preferably in cover of course) basically trying to bait your opponent, but more importantly giving them the head start to keep up with your wraiths(remember, jump infantry) . Then jet your wraiths up, fleet your scarabs, run the spyders( to build more scarabs next turn). If you can charge an opponent with your wraiths and scarabs, its absolutely worth it, you would probably win most fights. Throw in Trayzn with a command barge(move flat out first turn, then 12 the next to disembark and assault, gotta love those open top vehicles) and manage to wound one grunt in an enemy unit and you hit most of the unit for free.

If you do run the Trazyn list, then a cryptek with solar pulse would be essential for the night fighting cover. Use it whenever you feel the majority of your opponents army would be in range to shoot, not necessarily first turn. If Trayzn doesn't suit you the the Stormlord would be perfect to keep night fighting going and launch some thunderbolts every turn. Not to mention the Stormlord can steal the Initiative on a 4+, allowing you to go first and make more scarabs immediately bringing up your survivability factor.

Another thing that could work is using a monolith to block LOS, though i'm not sure if it would really be worth it since it only moves 6 inches a turn.

Mostly i just feel the wraith scarab combo(possibly destroyer lord) on the charge is really terrifying. Think of it this way, you start with 2 squads of 6 wraiths with 4 whips each. Then you have 10
scarabs in front of 9 spyders, who will make 18 extra scarabs within 2 turns bringing your scarabs up to 28 total. Maybe you'll lose a few to insta death since scarabs are T3, and a few more lose all three of their wounds to other weapons. hopefully night fighting will be in affect through all this cutting you losses down considerably. so lets say when you get into assualt you have 10 wraiths, 20 scarabs, and a couple destroyer lords. That 40 rending attacks on the charge that will probably go first, followed by 100 scarab attacks on the charge( who would hopefully go first due to the whip coils), followed by 8 destroyer lord attacks with warscythes (+2 strength, ignore armor, preferred enemy). This is quite possible if night fighting is kept going and you take full advantage of terrain. If possible make the Spyders in range to make scarabs 3rd turn ( would be difficult if scarabs make their 12 inch charge) to replace your losses of course.

notabot187 wrote:3++ is nice, but Its still just T4 and no reanimation. They can be made to work like nobs without FNP, except without the PKs or FC, or enough options to make them diverse. Its not going to be especially hard to kill a unit with some splinter or bolter fire. They are durable, but probably not durable enough to make up for fact they go at I2 and don't power weapons or fists. At their point value I can't say I like their durability.

I don't like lynchguard because they don't pass what I call the wyche test. Their save isn't invulnerable, their int is slow, and they cost too much for every lost model. They don't do well against S5 or splinter fire. If wyches get a change to shoot and charge should kill at 1-2 with normal attacks, and 1 with the agonizer. Giving the benefit of the doubt to lychguard, only 2 total die, 6 attacks back, 3 hits, under wounds, 1.25 dead wyches. Less points in wyches beats in cc the best cc unit necrons have. Wyches are a basic troop.

Against basic marines, non LC termies, and even assault marines (a joke i know, who other than BA uses these?) lychguard do fine, but against certain units that happen to be troops in other armies (like bloodletters and wyches) they aren't all that great.

They are transported in a skimmer that is not open topped nor (as far as I can see) an assault vehicle. Infantry movement means they won't get very far while under fire.

3++ is pretty good, especially combined with 2W. Also whip wraiths make everything else I1 so they still strike first. Ignoring terrain means that they will always strike first (barring any rulings/decisions on bonuses to I). 4 attacks at s6 with rending means they can kill anything, from dreadnaughts and landraiders, to thunder hammer terminators. To make them a winning combination it is probably best to add a destroyer lord. That makes them re-roll hits in CC. So while 24 s6 rending attacks are good. 24 s6 rr to hit rending attacks are basically amazing, especially combined with another 4 s7 power weapon attacks (mindshackle scarabs too). Takes out MCs pretty well, TH/SS terminators, scarab swarms

edit*

Lych guard are better than you are thinking, wyches are one of the worst things to fight (poison power weapons and invulnerable saves is not fun). However they do have invulnerable saves (4+ shield options, get pw instead of warscythe for +5 pts). Also you probably should include the RP save (5+ or 4+ if you include a lord with a res orb). So overall they are a bit more durable than you are giving them credit, having essentially a 3++ save (or fortuned warlocks saves with a lord) barring complete wipe out or falling back. While not quite as good, its still pretty menacing. I don't know wyches stats off the top of my head, but I would imagine that after adding in the 4+ ward, it should be less than three dead, with rp make that less than 1.5 kills. On the other side an extra guy adds a possible kill. So things start evening out.

As for assaulting, I might try to use the monolith (have to be within 9" of an opponent (2" deploy, 1" base and 6" charge)) to get a nice charge range. Otherwise I do admit, they are much better for counter attacks, but i still prefer wraiths imho, as they can strike first (whips) and get close to as many kills.

The main reason necrons will struggle to make a competitive assault army is neither the initiative or low number of attacks (they have the strength and durability to make up for both.) It is the fact that they have no assault capable troop choices. So no matter what, you're stuck with a bunch of units that will split the army's role. It seems like the codex authors majorly fouled up by making Flayed Ones elites instead of troops (even if they had been troops that didn't score...) They could have been a tax on a melee army (but less than warriors or immortals.) But with their large squad size and reanimation protocals, they could have still been functional (especially with monolith support, or if they'd been able to work with ghost arks.)

It seems that necrons either need to be pure shooty, Zilla with walker+spider spam, or hybrid with shooty troops and melee fast/elites as countercharge.

I actually have a question on assaulting with Scarabs. I know that their entropic strike on vehicles reduces their armor on hit. What I can't figure out, is if it is the same for infantry (like Terminators)?

Does the armor of the Terminator get destroyed on a hit or does it rely on being wounded?

Fluff wise, it is kinda silly to have something that can eat a landraider in a turn or two, but not be able to take down a suit of power armor. Granted... the landraider isn't likely to be flailing about or swinging fist/swords/hammers.

I'm also confused on this idea. Does the Destroyer Lord share his Preferred Enemy (all) with a unit that he is leading?

To answer the scarabs, it only effects after they take a wound (so only useful on multi wounded models, maybe FNP models barring a flame war).


Destroyer lords, i believe, do share their PE, but that is something I need to check to be certain of.

Anpu-adom wrote:I actually have a question on assaulting with Scarabs. I know that their entropic strike on vehicles reduces their armor on hit. What I can't figure out, is if it is the same for infantry (like Terminators)?

Does the armor of the Terminator get destroyed on a hit or does it rely on being wounded?

Fluff wise, it is kinda silly to have something that can eat a landraider in a turn or two, but not be able to take down a suit of power armor. Granted... the landraider isn't likely to be flailing about or swinging fist/swords/hammers.

I'm also confused on this idea. Does the Destroyer Lord share his Preferred Enemy (all) with a unit that he is leading?

Unsaved wounds from entropic strike = no more armor saves.

First of all thank for all the idea!

Here is what 1750p ( too sad i cant fit all i need in )


Nemesor Zahndrekh l Phase shifter,Ressurrection orb ,Staff of light, Sempiternal weave 185

Crypteck l Eldritch lance 35
Crypteck l Eldritch lance 35
Crypteck l Eldritch lance 35


Necron Warriors x 5 l Gauss flayer 65
Necron Warriors x 5 l Gauss flayer 65
Necron Warriors x 5 l Gauss flayer 65


Flay One x 10 l CCW 115
Flay One x 10 l CCW 115
Lych Guards x 5 l Hyperphase sords, Dispersion shields 225

Canoptek Wraiths x 4 l Phase shifter, Whip coil x 4 180
Canoptek Wraiths x 4 l Phase shifter, Whip coil x 4 180
Canoptek Scarabs x 5 75

Monolith l Eternity gate, Four Gauss flux arcs, Partical whip 200
Doomday ark l Doomsday cannon, 2 gauss flayer arrays, Quatum shieding 175

Total 1750


I think that Nemesor will help up more in Assault base army in my opinion due to his special rule.
Crytek will go with the Warriors. For tank busting support.
Flayones will probably come true Nemesor special rule or normal way or may be our flank.
Nemesor will be with the Lychguards. Lychguards will use the Monolith once it arrive.
Wraiths will be a reserve Assault support.
Scrabs is just for annoyment.
Doomsday ark is also a support fire.

The main idea is to confuse the opponent about the priority target. using Nemesor rule to maximum.

Thank ! Please comment.