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I have noticed alot that there seems to be a major problem with people and scratchbuilt stuff. Especially when it comes to playing them in a game.

My thoughts on it are that if someone honestly takes the time to build ANYTHING by hand, they deserve to use it. I'm not going to tear someone apart because they dont buy GW all GW products and whatnot. Realizing, that if they aren't contributing at all to GW, then I'm moderately opposed to that, because then they arent contributing to the game.

I think it has become too gung-ho when it comes to this game, because of all the things you have to do to play. I mean, no one attacks scratchbuilt terrain?
For the first 2-3 years of me being into warhammer, I had very few models and HAD to build my own stuff lots of times. And to this day I REFUSE to buy a GW tank, because I find it utterly ridiculous to buy something that is supposed to fit 10 marines in it, and it cant fit any. So i build my own, to truescale.

My question is, how do you guys feel about scratchbuilding GW stuff, and allowing it to be played? For example: Tanks, Titans, Ships, etc.

Thanks!

I think it's fine. Let's be fair - you have to convert or scratch build some stuff, especially with the two wave release system. I know one of my first large-ish conversions was a Ironclad.

Two things though - it needs to be recognizable as the unit it's meant to be, and it needs to be to a decent scale. Having the finest Rhino in the world isn't gonna work if it's 18 inches long and can cover half your armies advance.

I completely agree with you!

It still needs to be reasonable. My Rhino has enough room for 5 marines + 2 crew + Commander, plus the wargear to make it useable as a whirlwind, and its only the size of a landraider!

I think scratch builts are fun and fine.

But I do think if the person that creates the scratch builds know it'll be used in games, they should respect it by building the size to be some what appropriate.

Its fine! As long as obvious effort has been put forth, I don't care in the slightest. In fact, my local GW's own policy is as long as it isn't a cardboard box, you can use it. (No other company's models though)

So the biggest issue with you two has been overexaggerated scale? I find that reasonable


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@ Mewiththeface - See, thats how GW SHOULD be. And I understand the no other companies models in a GW store, but in personal games I couldnt care in the slightest as long as they look fitting.

Well some people say 'scratchbuild' and produce rubbish and try to put that on the table. No cardboard boxes please, something that looks like a proper model.

If its a scratch build, its gotta look the part, and look it well. Hastily slapping some pop-cans, popsicle sticks, and paper, and throwing paint on it does not make a vehicle...or anything.

Scratch-building is fine, but for me, it has to look good, and look like it fits with established aesthetics of the game. I've personally met too many people who half-assed build a bunch of killa-kans using soup cans and random bits lying around and painting it terribly. They claim it looks 'orky', but it really just looks bad.

Its gotta look good, and be WYSIWYG. If you can't/won't spend the money on the kits (which is perfectly acceptable, and I don't judge), then I do expect to see a good time investment in building a scratch-built 'X'.

Very true

@Blacksails - I agree, as long as an investment has been made to try and create something to IMPROVE the game, not just to avoid spending money.

Tlo1048 wrote:So the biggest issue with you two has been overexaggerated scale? I find that reasonable

The size issue....

If the person built it for fun, for personal satisfaction, they should be allowed to do ANYTHING they feel like. They can make it 1:1 scale if they want!

But in the spirit of game play, if they do know it'll be used in games, why not be a little considerate and build it with appropriate sizes? : )

Okay, that make sense.

Blame the people who give scratchbuilders a bad name. All it takes is one game arguing about tissuebox rhino being too big to grant cover to another vehicle behind it and alot of initially reasonable gamers will just give up on the idea completely. Scale and detail are the two biggest problems with scratchbuilding. Part of the enjoyment of the game for alot of players comes from seeing the models on the table; replacing a detailed plastic kit with a rectangular box made in 10 minutes from old cereal boxes is most definitely a downgrade. Taking a 5" vehicle and scratchbuilding it to inquisitor scale with a 9" profile will cause problems in the game as it interacts differently with terrain and models. If you make a NICE scratchbuilt model that is CLOSE to the size of the original kit, the majority of gamers won't have a problem. I'd play against a Land Raider sized converted truescale rhino but I would tell the opponent that I'm doing so on the condition that any arguments regarding the model be resolved as if it were the correct size.

Wasn't there a stink at Ard boys (it would be them) a few years ago because someone made ork trukks that were tall and thin - allegedly used to block LOS?

@Warboss - AMEN! I constantly either see AMAZING scratchbuilds or lazy, cheap boxes. I would NEVER use a box for ANYTHING except terrain, and even then I'd add somethingggggg to it.

And I like that resolution with the model. I wouldn't play a rhino the size of a baneblade, but a land raider size seemed reasonable to me.

@Howard - I honestly wouldn't doubt it haha


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Question: Would anyone say no to a scratchbuilt Titan that wasn't made with However many % GW products? And its a NICE quality, good product.

Scratchbuilt Titans are, as far as I can tell, one of the things that don't receive flak Nearly as much as other scratchbuilds... people generally think they're awesome. Probably due to the exorbitant cost of buying an "official" one

RiTides wrote:Scratchbuilt Titans are, as far as I can tell, one of the things that don't receive flak Nearly as much as other scratchbuilds... people generally think they're awesome. Probably due to the exorbitant cost of buying an "official" one

Well Titans are huge and rare anyways. There is really not enough exposure for anyone to be able to dish out opinions for it's size comparison. ne?

The only thing I have really seen a recent increase in intolerance is to ork vehicles. Primarily due to size issues impacting gameplay and the release of official models to set sizes. Now using legacy models or scratchbuilts from 3rd edition with non-standard sizes is a legitimate issue now.

Undersized Gorkamorka trukks, Oversized scratchbuilt or converted BWs and oversized buggies all cause issues and are seen as unfair now. Being an ork player with tons of legacy models, I agree with them. Gorka Trukks need to be buggies, oversized BWs need to become battlefortresses for Apoc and people should strive as much as possible to measure and apply rules as if the models were 'official' sizes.

nkelsch wrote:The only thing I have really seen a recent increase in intolerance is to ork vehicles. Primarily due to size issues impacting gameplay and the release of official models to set sizes. Now using legacy models or scratchbuilts from 3rd edition with non-standard sizes is a legitimate issue now.

Undersized Gorkamorka trukks, Oversized scratchbuilt or converted BWs and oversized buggies all cause issues and are seen as unfair now. Being an ork player with tons of legacy models, I agree with them. Gorka Trukks need to be buggies, oversized BWs need to become battlefortresses for Apoc and people should strive as much as possible to measure and apply rules as if the models were 'official' sizes.

I may cop a little flak for this, but its just my 2 cents;

On the topic of Orks & scratch builds (this is more a gripe than an issue in gameplay), is it just me or are there a lot of people who seem to think its okay to put a magnet in a cutlery draw, throw all the pieces in a bucket with some glue, wait for it to dry and then put some ork glyphs on it and call it 'orky'?

Call me puritanical, but I think theres a hell of a difference between greenskin ingenuity and "I'm going to nail this coffee cup to my stompa because it'll look orky".

Just my opinion

~Ghost

But then there are people like me. That absolutely sucks at building anything.... so we use Orks ad lab mouse :'P
Im sorry that it looks awful xD

@lunahound - True haha

@Nkelsch and GhostxHeart - While I understand Nkelsch's point from a scale perspective, I agree with Ghostxheart as well. The amount of "Ork" builds has become ridiculous. Its gone from a logical Ork structure or vehicle to pieces of cardboard stacked up and primed to be "Ork" tech. I like ALOT of the Ork looted stuff, thats one thing I can approve of. i saw a "looted" carnifex in the gallery today, and although thats entirely improbable, it looked cool. Its more of a look than a order.

But, I agree with both of you.

I find everyone's comments enlightening. Its good to know people are still reasonable.

LunaHound wrote:

RiTides wrote:Scratchbuilt Titans are, as far as I can tell, one of the things that don't receive flak Nearly as much as other scratchbuilds... people generally think they're awesome. Probably due to the exorbitant cost of buying an "official" one

Well Titans are huge and rare anyways. There is really not enough exposure for anyone to be able to dish out opinions for it's size comparison. ne?

You'd have to alter the size of a titan to some extent to get any LOS related benefits.

To be honest i dont mind scrath build stuff. I do care how ever is some one went out and bought a plastic tank from walmart and tries to tell me its an Leman Russ.

I believe it comes down to the 'rule of cool' if it looks like you took some time and effort to build it all the power to you, if you just prime a shoe box and call it your landraider...well...atleast draw some las-cannons on it...


I have seen some awsome scratchbuilds in the past. I have also seen alot of gak. Just as long as the person made it with the right intention in mind ie to make something cool and awsome, not modeling for advantage. MfA is never cool and I would refuse to play someone who did that.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Wasn't there a stink at Ard boys (it would be them) a few years ago because someone made ork trukks that were tall and thin - allegedly used to block LOS?

This would never happen at a tournament...

I'm fine on most scratch builts so long as they are an accurate representation of what it represents and is clearly not intention to exploit LOS and size. Although there are two things that absolutely bother me and I generally won't accept:

Paper tanks: C'mon...at least go buy some plasticard.
Ork Vehicles made from model cars: Completely unfluffy and absurd looking.

Does GW still support kitbashed models?

Spacemanvic wrote:Does GW still support kitbashed models?

They better do.

GhostxHeart wrote:
I may cop a little flak for this, but its just my 2 cents;

On the topic of Orks & scratch builds (this is more a gripe than an issue in gameplay), is it just me or are there a lot of people who seem to think its okay to put a magnet in a cutlery draw, throw all the pieces in a bucket with some glue, wait for it to dry and then put some ork glyphs on it and call it 'orky'?

Call me puritanical, but I think theres a hell of a difference between greenskin ingenuity and "I'm going to nail this coffee cup to my stompa because it'll look orky".

Just my opinion

~Ghost

It got a bit ridiculous right after the great deffrolla FAQ clarification of 2010.

I've never had anyone complain about any 'scratchbuild' stuff I've used, but my group is pretty lax. As GW finally released an actual manticore model that was far superior to my construction, I never tried taking any of it to a tournament. Rule of Cool always applies though.

Warpseer wrote:Ork Vehicles made from model cars: Completely unfluffy and absurd looking.

Actually, funny that you mention that, I found a book with all kinds of lost White Dwarf stuff in it, and bought it. You ever hear of Genestealer cult limousines?



Now thats a car right there, hahaha.

@Frogboy13 - Though I would generally agree with you on that, if someone can make a cool looking tank and convert it and paint it up, then I dont mind a walmart tank. Right scale, Cool design, effort, fine by me.