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for now i havn´t bought me a tank and i don´t plan to do so in the future... i built my own...and for now i don´t play so it doens´t bother me if they might be against some rules... i like scratchbuilding...it is good for my creativity and for my purse^^ two major oposing features of this hobby....

Tlo1048 wrote:Okay, so what if a fairly new player came in, and you could tell he was really excited and really proud of something he had built, even if it looked like utter crap, but you could tell had time invested it, would you tell him to, quote, "Get it the hell off my table"?

I realize that there is feasibly no way to allow EVERYONE to play their scratchbuilds, because honestly, some look like utter junk. But I believe its more about the quality, and the effort put forth.

@Jubear - You may not have meant "Casual" in a derogatory way, but it displays a type of elitism that, for the sake of this thread, I'd like to ask respectfully if you could keep that out of the conversation. Its a slippery slope that leads to taking people for grantite. Take GW for example.

EDIT: And yes, I realize you're from Australia which means you've sacrificed way more than alot of people in just the amount of money. But I would think that would mena you'd be MORE supportive of scratchbuilding.

A new players feeling are not my problem there is enough PC hand holding in this world without letting it invade my hobby. That being said I would be more then happy to raid the my healthy bits box and scrounge up some old rhino chassis etc to help a newer player build something decent.

And I am 100% ok with scratch building but it has to be quality work, Ive spent alot of time and money on my armies so I dont really want to spend an evening doing battle with balsa wood land raiders or as so many people have mentioned the toy car with a big shoota stuck on it that is supposed to be an ork truck.

And I dont mean to sound elitest but mate I am 30 and wayyyyyy to comfortable in my hobby and self,I know I can play well and that I paint etc to a decent standard so I tend to be fairly confident in my hobby related dealings sorry if I come off like an ass its not the intention.

so, what about these here of mine... sub par or suitable for a game with your armies? just to know what you are thinking...:






note these are still WIPs as i have the habbit of not fully completing my works...it is a me thing^^

Viktor von Domm wrote:so, what about these here of mine... sub par or suitable for a game with your armies? just to know what you are thinking...:






note these are still WIPs as i have the habbit of not fully completing my works...it is a me thing^^

What are they in the game? The top one looks ok not so sure about the bottom one. I might give you a little stick about them but after the game you would be allowed access to my bits box of doom.I have a ton of the little heads deamon heads that chaos seem to like putting over the muzzle of there guns and a ton of icons etc that would really help detail those up a little.

i have too thought about those muzzle covers for adding a bit of gothic feel to the red one...
the red one should count as a bigger version of a storm blade...(i am not really firm in rules so this might be the wrong name here...)

and the grey one should count as a LR... his height is a bit lower than a GW LR...but size should fit of the foorprint iirc...

as for the look... both tanks are steampowered to fiut my fluff of the army... thats why standerd GW stuff most of the time doen´t work for me...

The top actaully looks very close to a malcador or whatever the small super heavy tanks is called in IA not sure if I am cool with it being a LR because of the turret.

If the red one is the right size etc and has the turrets in the right spaces for it to be a storm blade or whatever they are called then I would be ok with that too.

Like I said earlier mate Its the balsa wood/toy car "scratch builds" That I detest. Also a battlewagon cost me $110 (more if you factor in the deffrolla sprue) and I have 4 so having them removed by a $20 scracth build always hurts a little.

this hurt i can understand... but i think it is also quite understandable to compare a gry built tank for instance with a fully scratchbuilt and painted tank... my tanks both have costed me about 100h of work...i think the value in the model lies in the amount of work you put into it... i see some errors in my works and i think one day i will bult a tank that is suitable compareable to a bought one...hopefully^^

Jubear wrote:

Tlo1048 wrote:Okay, so what if a fairly new player came in, and you could tell he was really excited and really proud of something he had built, even if it looked like utter crap, but you could tell had time invested it, would you tell him to, quote, "Get it the hell off my table"?

I realize that there is feasibly no way to allow EVERYONE to play their scratchbuilds, because honestly, some look like utter junk. But I believe its more about the quality, and the effort put forth.

@Jubear - You may not have meant "Casual" in a derogatory way, but it displays a type of elitism that, for the sake of this thread, I'd like to ask respectfully if you could keep that out of the conversation. Its a slippery slope that leads to taking people for grantite. Take GW for example.

EDIT: And yes, I realize you're from Australia which means you've sacrificed way more than alot of people in just the amount of money. But I would think that would mena you'd be MORE supportive of scratchbuilding.

A new players feeling are not my problem there is enough PC hand holding in this world without letting it invade my hobby. That being said I would be more then happy to raid the my healthy bits box and scrounge up some old rhino chassis etc to help a newer player build something decent.

And I am 100% ok with scratch building but it has to be quality work, Ive spent alot of time and money on my armies so I dont really want to spend an evening doing battle with balsa wood land raiders or as so many people have mentioned the toy car with a big shoota stuck on it that is supposed to be an ork truck.

And I dont mean to sound elitest but mate I am 30 and wayyyyyy to comfortable in my hobby and self,I know I can play well and that I paint etc to a decent standard so I tend to be fairly confident in my hobby related dealings sorry if I come off like an ass its not the intention.

I understand that as well. And I apologize for becoming a bit offended, it was late and I was moody haha.

Another aspect of that is, people in the US especially are unbelieveably attatched to their bits. I have NEVER had ANYONE allow me to take stuff from their bits box, let alone a Rhino chassis. I can't fathom it at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Viktor von Domm wrote:this hurt i can understand... but i think it is also quite understandable to compare a gry built tank for instance with a fully scratchbuilt and painted tank... my tanks both have costed me about 100h of work...i think the value in the model lies in the amount of work you put into it... i see some errors in my works and i think one day i will bult a tank that is suitable compareable to a bought one...hopefully^^

And Viktor also has a nice point. I may not spend the money others do, but i damn well put forth the hours and the patience.

Tlo1048 wrote:

Jubear wrote:

Tlo1048 wrote:Okay, so what if a fairly new player came in, and you could tell he was really excited and really proud of something he had built, even if it looked like utter crap, but you could tell had time invested it, would you tell him to, quote, "Get it the hell off my table"?

I realize that there is feasibly no way to allow EVERYONE to play their scratchbuilds, because honestly, some look like utter junk. But I believe its more about the quality, and the effort put forth.

@Jubear - You may not have meant "Casual" in a derogatory way, but it displays a type of elitism that, for the sake of this thread, I'd like to ask respectfully if you could keep that out of the conversation. Its a slippery slope that leads to taking people for grantite. Take GW for example.

EDIT: And yes, I realize you're from Australia which means you've sacrificed way more than alot of people in just the amount of money. But I would think that would mena you'd be MORE supportive of scratchbuilding.

A new players feeling are not my problem there is enough PC hand holding in this world without letting it invade my hobby. That being said I would be more then happy to raid the my healthy bits box and scrounge up some old rhino chassis etc to help a newer player build something decent.

And I am 100% ok with scratch building but it has to be quality work, Ive spent alot of time and money on my armies so I dont really want to spend an evening doing battle with balsa wood land raiders or as so many people have mentioned the toy car with a big shoota stuck on it that is supposed to be an ork truck.

And I dont mean to sound elitest but mate I am 30 and wayyyyyy to comfortable in my hobby and self,I know I can play well and that I paint etc to a decent standard so I tend to be fairly confident in my hobby related dealings sorry if I come off like an ass its not the intention.

I understand that as well. And I apologize for becoming a bit offended, it was late and I was moody haha.

Another aspect of that is, people in the US especially are unbelieveably attatched to their bits. I have NEVER had ANYONE allow me to take stuff from their bits box, let alone a Rhino chassis. I can't fathom it at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Viktor von Domm wrote:this hurt i can understand... but i think it is also quite understandable to compare a gry built tank for instance with a fully scratchbuilt and painted tank... my tanks both have costed me about 100h of work...i think the value in the model lies in the amount of work you put into it... i see some errors in my works and i think one day i will bult a tank that is suitable compareable to a bought one...hopefully^^

And Viktor also has a nice point. I may not spend the money others do, but i damn well put forth the hours and the patience.

Really everyone hordes bits they most likely will never use I find that just to be a greedy thing to do why not get the joy of helping someone out.

Also while on the topic of genrosity in wargaming ive seen a mate go buy a razor back for a younger opponent once after he heard the kids mate laying crap on him because his army was mostly AoBR with a few bits and pieces thrown in. Should have seen the looks on those little richy bitches face when my mate walked over and gave the kid the razorback and told him to come back next week and he would have a few more bits and pieces for him to help him out (mostly just old devastator weapon bits and a another AoBR dred) THen just to rub it in when the kids mates asked why he was getting all this stuff my mates reply was priceless "because he just gave me a decent game with feth all stuff none of you little c@#nts could do that"

That is, quite possibly, the coolest thing I've ever heard of.

I remember how tough it was starting out. I had to beg a plead everywhere I was to get good deals on stuff that no one ever used. Eventually thats when I just started shopping on ebay all day to find good deals.

Yeah my mate grew up very poor so I think its made him very sympathetic to the cause of younger gamers trying to enjoy a hobby that seems to be doing its best to price them out of it.

Plus no one likes spoiled little rich kids.

Agreed

One day things will go back to the way they were, where we can enjoy our hobby and not have to worry as much about it. Hopefully.

I have to say that i am a fan of scratch builds. You should be able to use any scratch builds in games as long as
1) the scratch build looks like you put effort and time into it. i have seen some really crappy scratchbuilds, like guys taking rockem sockem robots and calling it a greater demon after slapping some paint on it. Lame.
2) scratch builds (as well as conversions) should not be modelled to take advantage of some aspect of the game via their dimensions. I say this because one dakka-ite I know bought a speciallly scratch built battlewagon because it was wide and tall enough to be able to use it to hide the rest of his army behind. Lame. another ork player locally has a LONG battlewagon so that he can place it sideways to the enemy, rotate it to gain the extra 7 or 8 inches afforded to him via the rotation and then move towards the enemy. He has a 28" first turn assault distance. 7" rotation, 12" move, disembark 2" plus the inch of the bases width, assault 6" and presto. Lame 1st turn charge. another lame local player has the base of all of his trygons cut off so that the models are less than half their original height. these sort of alterations to gain an advantage are lame and should NOT be employed by any scratch builder.

@ Victor von Domm Your tanks look great. I have a bunch of scratch builds too that i made using foam, cardboard, wire nails and the like. No one has ever complained. at least they are painted and they look cool. thats what matters most. the spirit of the game is to have a fun time together. its not about how much money you spend but on what you get out of it.

I think this example sums it up for me the way I think about this issue...

Someone said paper things are a big NO...

Heres a paper rhino for you.



or a paper LR mk1


So for me its not the material, or the fluff or the size etc its the way you do it... you can have a stock GW kit and assemble it so badly that it sucks and you can have paper and glue and do beautiful things.

At the end of the day it boils down on creating cool models regardless of material or company...
GW used to have lots of cool stuff, Limo a good example but that day is long gone! Their loss, just because they frown upon non GW stuff it will not stop me from making MY models the way I LIKE them.

at sennacherib : many thanks mate!^^

personally I like scratch builds as long as like others they resemble what they are meant to be and are wysiwyg

my whole army is wysiwyg

i have also seen people mention non gw models in a game.....as a Space Wolves player.........if i want a thunderwolf cavalry......i aint gonna get it from gw

My scratchbuilt Chimera received the best possible complement when I took it down to the club on saturday nobody noticed! From the distance people watch games at a scratchbuild can get past fine......

A general note : if you're quoting a big post, especially if it's full of pictures, then please put them in spoiler tags. Thanks ! Reds8n

I've seen paperhammer stuff before, and it looks pretty neat. But nothing like that.
Is it BUILT from paper, or just paper templates? It looks more like plasticard to me. Just wondering.