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This is a a business related thread, so posting it here instead of 40K discussions.

Was in GW yesterday buying my Christmas present (Mrs Flashman prefers not to go into the shop because of the "man smell") and asked the manager how Necron sales were doing. Apparently they've proven to be one of the most popular releases of the year with the Codex selling out inside of a week. I suggested that this was probably because everyone has owned a Necron army at some point and he nodded, saying that a lot of customers had rediscovered a old box of Necrons Warriors at the back of their wardrobe that until they'd never done anything with.

So it appears that the new Codex has apparently prompted a literal resurrection of peoples' old necron collections. How many people have been prompted to get some of the new stuff on these grounds? Has this happened with other armies to the same extent? Orks and Space Marines perhaps? Could GW capitalise on this approach in the future or is it just down to a bizzare set of circumstances?

Its going to be hard. For the longest of times the Necrons were like the Grey Knights are now; cheap for an army and effective enough to auto win certain matchups. They look very iconic in comparison to other armies and have gone a full decade with no update. It would be almost impossible to do that with any other army due to the fact that other long suffering candidates are either in fantasy (Chaos Dorfs to a degree) or were 'Squatted'. Every other option in 40k is either in a temporary lull waiting (Tau due to 5th edition close combat rules) or have different army lists to make them fun and effective if your truly wanting to WAAC it up (Black Templar and CSM).

Dark Eldar were well received but they did not have the following the space robots have, albeit the release was as beautiful of a product line as any produced by any miniature company.

Dark Eldar also suffer from 'so much neat stuff, but so little competitive stuff'. And dont hit me with 'well you dont have to play this game competitively'; casual play where you always get slaughtered isnt fun.

I have never desired to get necrons until now.

Models actually really got me excited. But I have to much stuff to finish already.

Several of those in my Local GW have purchased Necrons, even I have some thoughts on a small side force for Apocalypse games or just small skirmishes because most of the models just look great.

While not concrete sales data, several managers in Australia have said that the Necron relaunch has been bigger than the Dark Eldar relaunch for their stores. Nothing in referenceable quotes online though. You probably won't get that until the next financial report.

Can we at least wait until more than a week has gone by before we start declaring that Dark Eldar were an abysmal failure compared to Necrons, and that everyone buying Necrons right now plans on sticking with them for life (as opposed to being a "NEW SHINY!" buyer like what happens with every new 40k release)? We haven't had nearly enough time to be coming to these conclusions, and that goes for competitiveness as well, seeing as how no one's had enough time to get the amount of games in that would be required to make that judgment.

There's no real proof that Necrons are more successful, it's just random people coming online to say "My store sold out!" or "My redshirt said they were popular!". Hey, cool, but if your store only gets two boxes of immortals, two command barges and a ghost ark, a single customer could buy your entire stock and you would technically have "sold out" (when DE wave 2 came out my store didn't have more than 2-4 of every new release, so I missed out on the scourges and razorwing on release day and only managed to get the last two venoms they had), so that doesn't really mean gak without a little more context. And of course a GW employee is going to say they're successful, if they don't sell they lose their jobs, so they're going to tell you whatever you want to hear if they think you'll buy more stuff as a result. "Yeah Necrons have been flying off the shelves, in fact I hear GW is having trouble keeping up with the demand so if you want your stuff you better buy it right now just to be safe!"

You guys are jumping the gun a bit, that's my opinion. I also don't like how everyone's seemingly writing off DE here...like I said, you'd think the DE were so unpopular that GW was about to make them direct only again, and that after a single week nothing could outsell the almighty Tomb Kings Necrons.

I also think it's funny that for all the Ward hate we have on the internet, everyone must think he's actually a competent writer if his Necrons are really all that popular. You're actually telling GW that they did good in hiring him and that you want more of his stuff.

Flashman wrote:asked the manager how Necron sales were doing. Apparently they've proven to be one of the most popular releases of the year with the Codex selling out inside of a week. I suggested that this was probably because everyone has owned a Necron army at some point and he nodded, saying that a lot of customers had rediscovered a old box of Necrons Warriors at the back of their wardrobe that until they'd never done anything with.

Just playing devils advocate: How do you know he's telling the truth? Every release could be popular according to the manager. If they were terrible, do you think he'd tell you?

carmachu wrote:

Flashman wrote:asked the manager how Necron sales were doing. Apparently they've proven to be one of the most popular releases of the year with the Codex selling out inside of a week. I suggested that this was probably because everyone has owned a Necron army at some point and he nodded, saying that a lot of customers had rediscovered a old box of Necrons Warriors at the back of their wardrobe that until they'd never done anything with.

Just playing devils advocate: How do you know he's telling the truth? Every release could be popular according to the manager. If they were terrible, do you think he'd tell you?

Agreed. The other aspect is that will this codex bring in new customers that they have lost in the past year particularly. The customer base is still contracting. The cost of owning a new army is not acceptable in these economic times. People are going to other alternatives. I myself bought the WM Starter box set because it was a good deal.

Games workshop needs to work on providing a system, (does not need to be a watered down version of 40K) that is easily affordable to those that might want to get into the hobby. But I highly doubt that will happen if you follow GW's current and past business practices.

Did I buy a Codex? Yes. I also said that this codex to me is the first xeno codex that can be highly competitive in tournament play. Only time will tell if I am right when the big Tournaments begin next fiscal year.

Sidstyler wrote:Can we at least wait until more than a week has gone by before we start declaring that Dark Eldar were an abysmal failure compared to Necrons, and that everyone buying Necrons right now plans on sticking with them for life (as opposed to being a "NEW SHINY!" buyer like what happens with every new 40k release)? We haven't had nearly enough time to be coming to these conclusions, and that goes for competitiveness as well, seeing as how no one's had enough time to get the amount of games in that would be required to make that judgment.

There's no real proof that Necrons are more successful, it's just random people coming online to say "My store sold out!" or "My redshirt said they were popular!". Hey, cool, but if your store only gets two boxes of immortals, two command barges and a ghost ark, a single customer could buy your entire stock and you would technically have "sold out" (when DE wave 2 came out my store didn't have more than 2-4 of every new release, so I missed out on the scourges and razorwing on release day and only managed to get the last two venoms they had), so that doesn't really mean gak without a little more context. And of course a GW employee is going to say they're successful, if they don't sell they lose their jobs, so they're going to tell you whatever you want to hear if they think you'll buy more stuff as a result. "Yeah Necrons have been flying off the shelves, in fact I hear GW is having trouble keeping up with the demand so if you want your stuff you better buy it right now just to be safe!"

You guys are jumping the gun a bit, that's my opinion. I also don't like how everyone's seemingly writing off DE here...like I said, you'd think the DE were so unpopular that GW was about to make them direct only again, and that after a single week nothing could outsell the almighty Tomb Kings Necrons.

I also think it's funny that for all the Ward hate we have on the internet, everyone must think he's actually a competent writer if his Necrons are really all that popular. You're actually telling GW that they did good in hiring him and that you want more of his stuff.

I gotta ask, where did all that rage come from? People just reported the managers saying it was bigger than the DE release, which was pretty successful by all accounts. No-one wrote off DE at all
Hell the reason why its probably more popular is because alot of people used to have Necron armies, I recall it at one stage being a very popular army among people. Combine that with a new release after a decade long wait and you have a pretty big hit on your hands I reckon.

sparkywtf wrote:I have never desired to get necrons until now.

Models actually really got me excited. But I have to much stuff to finish already.

Its Strange to compare, but when dark eldar came out i feel exact like that: never liked them, but the models owned me. Necron atracted me for a while before this release (loved them in Dawn of War) but those new model just made me lose all interest...

Just commenting it, just a funny thing, evyone should be happy in its way

Sidstyler wrote:I also think it's funny that for all the Ward hate we have on the internet, everyone must think he's actually a competent writer if his Necrons are really all that popular. You're actually telling GW that they did good in hiring him and that you want more of his stuff.

The only way in which that would be ironically amusing would be one in which all the people who dislike Matt Ward's work are, in fact, one-dimensional "haters" who simply shun anything that is Ward related without giving it any sort of examination. A more nuanced perspective might reveal that, in fact, some of the people who disliked his previous work believe in credit where credit's due - that we give him gak when he fails, but we like his work when it's good. The Necron book is generally very good, in my opinion. It may be that some people read the actual books, the fluff and the rules, and that fuels how they feel about him as a writer: his body of work. When judged on his merits, those same people might not have liked Codex:GK but do like Codex: Necrons without being hypocrites. However, it's a lot easier to just label people as "haters" or "apologists" and pretend there are no legitimate beefs to be had; or for the other camp, that none of it was ever any good.

That being said, Games Workshop is a miniature manufacturer first and a game designer last. The quality of writing is generally not the top concern that drives models, especially considering GWS's focus on new, short term customers over established players. The average GW customer, in their mind, doesn't even know what the rules are in specific, they just want the cool looking new models. The new Necrons, with the exception of the Flayed Ones, deliver on that.

carmachu wrote:

Flashman wrote:asked the manager how Necron sales were doing. Apparently they've proven to be one of the most popular releases of the year with the Codex selling out inside of a week. I suggested that this was probably because everyone has owned a Necron army at some point and he nodded, saying that a lot of customers had rediscovered a old box of Necrons Warriors at the back of their wardrobe that until they'd never done anything with.

Just playing devils advocate: How do you know he's telling the truth? Every release could be popular according to the manager. If they were terrible, do you think he'd tell you?

Well we're not pub mates or anything, but I know him well enough to say that he doesn't talk nonsense. He has remarked in the past when things are pretty quiet.

To be honest, my thoughts were sparked by the idea that a lot of people had dormant Necron collections ranging from armies to an unopened box of Necron warriors and the codex has revitalised interest in them. I'm not sure the same was true of other armies such as Grey Knights and DE. And I wasn't trying to claim that Necron sales are outstripping those of DE this time last year.

That said, my own personal view is that Necrons will have more staying power than DE as they are more accessible in terms of collecting (they have a relatively decent points to £££ ratio), painting (spray black, spay boltgun metal, wash with Devaln Mud) and gaming (they are a lot more forgiving than DE).

Asuron wrote:

I gotta ask, where did all that rage come from? People just reported the managers saying it was bigger than the DE release, which was pretty successful by all accounts. No-one wrote off DE at all
Hell the reason why its probably more popular is because alot of people used to have Necron armies, I recall it at one stage being a very popular army among people. Combine that with a new release after a decade long wait and you have a pretty big hit on your hands I reckon.

Lets put this slightly in prespective shall we?

The manager, of a GW store(who obviously works for the company) is declaring to a customer that the newest xenos release was bigger then the last xenos release and is greatly successful....with no data.

Can we at least back the salt truck up before declaring that what the manager says is golden and untouchable evidence? I mean its not like he would tell you it WASNT successful, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flashman wrote:

Well we're not pub mates or anything, but I know him well enough to say that he doesn't talk nonsense. He has remarked in the past when things are pretty quiet.

Has he ever told you a released sucked and didnt sell? I doubt it.

Not saying he's lying, but come on, a GW maanager is saying its the greatest release and sold out isnt exactly an unbias source....

I suspect that the codex sales probably will be good and furthermore, I suspect the actual model sales will be less so. A lot of people will already have necron armies ready and waiting, either as a long standing mothballed army or picked up cheap off Ebay and have been waiting patiently for the rules.

I think the success of any GW army is largely based on the asymmetrical release plan they have and the need they have instilled into current and new players to purchase what-ever the newest, most shiny toy has been released.

The ensuing, and unreasonable media frenzy that follows (BoW Necron week) only helps to push current forces into the shadows and play to the wonder what is the newest thing.

Personally, I think Necrons were a failure, not because of the potential sales they generated, but because this ideology that GW seems to work under actually appears to rob Peter to pay Paul.

From a business perspective, their current plan elevates one product generally at the expense of their other products....where any rational company would endeavour to ensure steady robust sales acorss their entire range, GW seems to think it's a good plan to just sell out of one!

I can see the short term to long term "logic" in this, as it is a self generating business plan.....if IG were great today, and now its Necrons that are great, we can remodel and redefine IG later, and the suckers will buy it....

The only downside, people arn't for the most part stupid, and this constant power creep (not to mention investment creep) will little by little drain away customer loyalty and product faith. This is why I think Necrons are a fail.

People get excited over anything new except Dreadfleet.

As an Necron player, I had not played them much with 5th edition. Once the new codex and models came out, I spent quite a bit on the new stuff.

I think their success lies in that there are a lot of alluring options and combinations of units in the codex. I have had Necrons since 3rd ed, and the fact that I can't find one entry (except for maybe the Necron Lords in the Royal Court) that doesn't look fun to play, really turns my world upside down as a Necron player.

I don't want to compare the Necron release to the DE, but I think the Necron release is successful because it gives players with Necron armies a strong case to become Necron players once again.

carmachu wrote:

Flashman wrote:

Well we're not pub mates or anything, but I know him well enough to say that he doesn't talk nonsense. He has remarked in the past when things are pretty quiet.

Has he ever told you a released sucked and didnt sell? I doubt it.

Not saying he's lying, but come on, a GW maanager is saying its the greatest release and sold out isnt exactly an unbias source....

Lol, he didn't say anything of the sort He just said that the codex sold out inside of a week. Having picked up one myself on release day, I know they had quite a few copies and indeed last Saturday, the Necron section was looking pretty sparse. I say again that he's not the sort of person to attempt hyperbole on a vet customer and thus I have no reason to doubt him.

Was in the other day in the Chermside store in Brisbane Australia since I needed some black wash (only thing I buy from GW anymore is their black wash)

Fully stocked with necron stuff. So was everything else on a mid-Saturday. I was the only customer in store.

GW embargo + price rise GOOOO.