Best Lore for Empire?

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**TheAngrySquig**

I was leaning towards a Shadow/Death combo, but I don't know if that would work as well as Metal/Life. I play mainly against Skaven and once in a blue moon Bret, so Metal and Life are good so I can hit whole units

**lixulana**

the biggest thing i see all the time is people basing their strategies around always getting the #6 spell, or getting some combo off.

i tend to look more at the other spells and how they work, and how often they will make a difference.

for my dark elves i have really started to like metal,

s: always a good spell for anything with high armor saves & effective against hydras
1: honestly the best place for this is something with a 5 save, reducing that to a point where they dont get a save vs halberdiers (or xbows with AP :-P)
2: +1 to hit and AP, when is this not good?
3: +2 armor save again when is this not good?
4: sniper spell maybe the only iffy spell, but you get a BSB in a medium armor unit its basically the same as the signature
5: whenever you have a unit that is equal to or 1 better than your unit this makes a huge difference, either they go from 3-4 or you go from 4-3 to hit. and -1 As to boot
6: the only fixed number unit death spell in the game, so its dependable against all opponents, except ogres.

**streamdragon**

You really take metal against skaven though? Many units have no armor save at all (slaves, gutter runners, night runners, rat ogres, etc.) and those that do generally have poor armor (clan rats are 5+ at best, etc.). Not really the most optimal choice, I would think, although you're pairing it with Life so I guess it doesn't really have to be. (Hate Life, stupid lore... *grumble**grumble**grumble*) I suppose the non-signature spells are pretty decent in general though.

You may take a look at Fire though. Flame Cage will hit an entire unit, and Piercing Bolts gets extra hits for each rank (which skaven tend to have in abundance). Fireball is one of the best signature spells, IMO as it scales so very well. The lore attribute also means that multiple low level casters can easily start ganging up on a unit.

**polybus**

I'll ramble a bit sure:

Hard question to answer really because it depends on the rest of your army. I find myself gravitating towards life or shadow in my Empire lists.

Life can heal a steamtank and war altar so can be huge in addition to the nice toughness spell and the game's #1 offensive spell. It is sad that the default spell can only affect his unit and that the regrowth spell is so expensive to cast but all in all a great lore.

Shadow lore can do the lower toughness so my mortars will have a field day thing plus it has a slow you down while I shoot you spell and mindrazor to turn state troops and flagellants into monsters. It also has the pit which can make about half the armies shiver in them boots and have access to 2 debuffs that will throw a combat your way in the form of lowering their strenght or toughness. Probably the best lore for any army which is why it is used so commonly. I don't really consider life or shadow on anything but a level 4 because Life likes to have throne+other spells and shadow spells are harder to get off.

Lore of light is decent for empire too in that you can make flagellants strike first with 2 of the spells and it has a nice signature if you are facing hydras or amombinations for str6 flaming. Spells are on the cheap side so works with a level 2 nicely.

Lore of metal is decent but not as op as the other 3. The thing I really like with this lore is the Scaly skin spell on swordsmen or greatswords. That signature makes steamtanks, hydras, knights, and pendant+armour DE lords run for cover.

So I guess it goes something like this:

If all around army: Shadow
If Steamtank/Altar: Life
If 2+ Flagellant units: Light
If Greatswords and Swordsmen: Metal

**Iago**

I love lore of life, fire, shadow and light.

**TheAngrySquig**

Mine has greatswords and swordsmen aplenty, but it has 2 Wizards. One is 4 the other is 2, which lore should go on the 4 and which on the 2

**polybus**

So I guess you like the metal spell glittering robe then. The thought then is well I'll take my level 4 on metal which will almost guarantee I get that spell but the rest of the lore is only so/so and if they focus on stopping that spell, you probably won't even get it off ever. Life can reduce the wounds to a unit just as well with its toughness boosting spell, its 6 spell is better than Metal 6, and if you deploy him with a horde unit, you can double buff his unit at least with regen. ( I mean he cant focus stop both of the buffs so one will get through usually) So probably the level 4 should still be life. Or you could level 4 a Shadow mage for the buffs/debuffs. Strength 7 swordsmen are nice I hear but that leaves little to do on phases outside of combat besides pit which wouldn't be that extraordinary against skaven and brets. Light isnt too exciting against those armies or when combined with greatswords and swords so give that one a miss I guess. You can try Metal on your level 2. The sad truth about 8th edition means your level 2 won't normally be doing anything other than channeling since your level 4 will be using all the dice. He only comes into play when you fail concentration/miscast (means they have more dice to dispel anyhow) or if your level 4 bites it or when your level 2 has a crucial spell to cast. The metal lore's default spell could be that spell in certain situations where you just 6 dice it.

And if you happen to roll up that glittering robe spell he might get a chance to throw a couple dice here and there.

**TheAngrySquig**

Sounds like 4Life/2Metal will work well

**Dii**

Life

**TheAngrySquig**

On the 4 metal on the 2 is my general plan

**MakeH**

Lvl 4 light, lvl 2 light + altar with light

Good damage output with strong missiles and good buffs.

**scubasteve04**

+1 for light. Light is an amazing lore, because it is so well rounded. Amazing AoE buffs, versatile magic missiles and a solid control spell (would work especially well against skaven and low Str armies)

Instead of getting a lvl 4 and 2, get a lvl 4 and a War altar (or lvl 2 and altar is acceptable).

**polybus**

Ive tried light spells with Greatswords and the always strikes last thing is a bummer. Even if you cancel it with timewarp, they still probably hit last. Plus if you take a war altar, you can have access to lore of light anyhow. A life mage can keep that altar in top shape with the lore attribute or even regrowth in a pinch and the power of dwellers is massive. I mean, I consider light a fair, well balanced lore. Life is definitely OP.

I'd say I don't have much respect for any kind of magic missles this edition thanks to megablock hammer and combat happening so quickly. I much prefer to have remains in play spells that the opponent will waste their magic dice on dispelling in their turn and I can save my unused dispel dice in my Rod of Power.

**MakeH**

the ability to cast 2 banishments is quite strong, especially when the other one is a bound that can be safely forced as an irresistible or cast with minimum dice. with the lvl4+2+altar combo they are str5 and 6, I think its pretty solid.

Im also a huge fan of Net of Amyntok.

**TheAngrySquig**

Life and Metal seem like the best buffs, but Fire and Death are the hardest hitters and Shadow is a great debuffer. Heavens seems pretty balanced, how is it?

**128th_king**

Heavens for me has always been rather hit and miss, sometimes it'll be absolutely amazing, sometimes it will not be so amazing.

**TheAngrySquig**

Well, magic in general is kinda like that

**128th_king**

Not in the same way as other lores,
while some lores will always fluctuate in effectiveness, the spells can always have some level of utility and benefit your army quite significantly
however Heavens will quite simply in some games have such little effect that there was almost no point in spending points on the wizard at all.
Magic however is incredibly fickle, and to put any reliance on it is to play a game of dice with Lady Luck

**TheAngrySquig**

I can deal with Lady Luck, she happens to be a friend

**128th_king**

same here, however lady luck can be Fickle, just remember that leaving any plan hinging around getting the right spell at a crucial point will leave you in a dire situation should you fail

**TheAngrySquig**

Yeah, but I like playing that way, adds suspense

**MakeH**

TheAngrySquig wrote:Yeah, but I like playing that way, adds suspense

That is definitely a ok way to choose a playing style, but it is a bit moot when theoryhammering dont you think?

**TheAngrySquig**

Point taken

**TheAngrySquig**

Is Beasts good? It has some good augments and solid damge spells

**scubasteve04**

Not really. Empire has access to much better lores (Life, Shadow ect.) and beasts is a pretty poor choice for Empire overall. Beasts on a level 1 scroll caddy is an option for wildform though.

**TheAngrySquig**

So a level 4 Life and a Level 2 Death, thoughts?

**scubasteve04**

With a level 1-2 wizard, you should pick a lore that has a strong lore attribute, because thats one of the only spells you can count on to get. Death has life leech, which IRRC compares LD of the target to the wizard (who has a measly LD 7) which is pretty poor. I would go with Fire, Metal, Light, beasts - something with a solid signature spell for your level 2.

**Malleus**

I'll throw in a plug for shadow, here. This is partly because of the lore attribute. In my experience, empire has got a *lot* of infantry characters in general, and being able to swap them around can greatly increase their versatility. Walking speculum switched into the combat where the chaos lord is? Walking stubborn crown switched into the unit that's getting eaten down below steadfast? And, of course, very expensive, very frail level 4 wizard being switched out of combat entirely to watch and laugh? It's wonderful. Shadow also turns state troops into something completely different (e.g. something that can sometimes kill some things).

At about 2500 points I routinely take the war altar for light spells and a level 4 for shadow.

Another good choice is light, which can tilt some tight combats your way (timewarp, pha's, speed of light) and also has the game's premier monster-killing spell, boosted Shem's Burning Gaze. d6 s6 flaming makes hydras and aboms cry.

**TheAngrySquig**

In 2000 points could I afford that?

**scubasteve04**

For 2k I would take either a War Altar or a Level 4, not both. Take both at 2500