Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey folks! I've traditionally played a Wraith Wing, but with a new codex, some things have changed that make it not really viable anymore (no teleporting through a Monolith to assault primarily, in addition to not having a second WBB from a Monolith).

So here's my initial thoughts - I haven't put point costs together yet, so I don't know how much this costs; I just read through the codex and considered a theme - I'd like to stick to the close combat theme, even though Wraiths got nerfed in that respect...no longer I6, but I2 now.

HQ: Stormlord Imotekh
HQ: Royal Court (probably two Necron Lords and at least one Cryptek...Lords with Rez Orbs, Cryptek with a Solar Pulse

Troop1: 20x Warriors + Ghost Ark (Can I buy 20 warriors with a Ghost Ark, or do the warriors have to be able to fit into the transport?) - Necron Lord attached
Troop2: 20x Warriors + Ghost Ark - Necron Lord attached

Elite1: C'Tan Shard with Writhing Worldscape

Fast Attack1: 6x Wraiths (probably a whip coil or two or three in here)
Fast Attack2: 6x Wraiths (probably a whip coil or two or three in here)
Fast Attack3: 10x Scarabs

Heavy1: 3x Tomb Spyders
Heavy2: 3x Tomb Spyders
Heavy3: 3x Tomb Spyders

The only thing I don't have in here are the two Ghost Arks; I have several Necron Lords, can convert a Cryptek...I have nine wraiths and would need to pick up three more. I have 9x Tomb Spyders and 39 scarab bases...interestingly I think I only have 20 warriors; I'll have to look.

The idea here is that the game starts in Nightfight with the potential for strikes from the Stormlord while my scarabs, wraiths, and C'Tan move up the field. The entire board is difficult/dangerous for the enemy. My spyders boost the size of my scarabs for a turn or two before they get into assault, while the Ghost Arks chaperone my warriors onto objectives or into fire support positions.

I think that my wraiths and scarabs have both lost the ability to turbo-boost. I used to run a destroyer lord with my wraiths...I'm not sure if I can put a destroyer Lord into Lord's court (doesn't appear to be so) otherwise I'd tack three of them into my wraith units and scarab swarm.

There's probably some tweaking needing to be done; I haven't considered the cryptek units thoroughly enough, but they don't seem to be able to take Tacyon arrows. Not sure if they have anything else worthwhile aside from the Solar Pulse to give me more control over nightfight.

Anyway, comments and criticism welcome!

So do you like the new dex?

Ive posted a list similar to this that is based around darkness and dangerous terrain.

TBH, i'd try and get some crypteks in there with tremmorstaves.
The ability to drop units into dangerous terrain after the 1st turn is priceless.

If you split the warriors into 4x10 rather than 2x20 you can throw a cryptek with each.
Also means you can get more character into units.

I was looking forward to seeing a list like this. Scarabs are crazy good. Remember that they have are beasts, so no they can't turbo boost but now they get to assault 12".

List is 2500 points.

Writhing Worldscape only makes actual difficult into dangerous.

Destroyer Lords are an HQ choice that don't permit a court. They cannot take an invulnerable save, but can take Mindshackle Scarabs and a Warscythe. They are really good in Wraith units.

I would probably drop the C'Tan for a Destroyer Lord + Flayed Ones, possibly also exchanging out some Spyders for more Flayed Ones.

HQ: Stormlord Imotekh 225
HQ: Royal Court: Necron Lord with Res Orb, Warscythe - 75
HQ: Destroyer Lord, Mindshackle Scarabs - 145

Troop1: 20x Warriors + Ghost Ark - 375
Troop2: 9x Warriors + Ghost Ark - 232

Elite1: 10 Flayed Ones - 130
Elite2: 10 Flayed Ones - 130
Elite3: 10 Flayed Ones - 130

Fast Attack1: 6x Wraiths, 2 Coils, 2 Particle Casters - 240
Fast Attack2: 6x Wraiths, 2 Coils, 2 Particle Casters - 240
Fast Attack3: 10x Scarabs - 150

Heavy1: 3x Tomb Spyders, Fabricator Array, Gloom Prism - 175
Heavy2: 3x Tomb Spyders, Fabricator Array, Gloom Prism - 175

so about 70 points for a Cryptek of your choice.

A C'Tan shard has to buy two powers.

Crypteks can't take Tachyon, but you can take them with an Eldritch Lance (36" S8 AP2 Assault 1) for 35 points a piece (and take up to 5 Lances/Court). Not a bad purchase for an army with meager AT shooting and very little shooting past 24".

There are no size limits on Warriors units taking an Ark, so your 20 man + Ark squads should be good to go. Those units will be able to take a beating from shooting and keep on doing their thing, but they are just too vulnerable to assault for my tastes. One successful enemy assault and a Sweeping Advance will shortly follow. "Poof" goes 260 points of Warriors, no RP allowed. Do you have any strategy in mind to protect them from assault? I could see Wraiths/Spyders/Scarabs taking revenge on whoever kills the Warriors, but all it'll take is two determined, suicidal assault units and you're out of Scoring units.

Do keep in mind that Necrons are almost exclusively LD10. They're at least somewhat resilient to those leadership tests.

Your shard has to take two powers.

Corollax wrote:Do keep in mind that Necrons are almost exclusively LD10. They're at least somewhat resilient to those leadership tests.

They are somewhat resilient, but not dependably so. With a 4+ sv, Warriors fall pretty easy in CC; with 1A, they don't hit back very hard. Lose combat by 3-4 (not hard to imagine) and that ~50/50 LD test is likely your last hope. Well, you still can roll to avoid being swept...but good luck with I2.

I didn't say it was an immunity -- just that their I2 value is tempered by their LD10. That's all.

I would like to see the army that could get into cc with his warriors without completely decimating him to the point it doesn't matter anymore before hand.

Clay Williams wrote:I would like to see the army that could get into cc with his warriors without completely decimating him to the point it doesn't matter anymore before hand.

I don't follow. You think it would be difficult to get into cc with two 20-man footslogging units who will often have to be moving toward objectives?

Yes I do think it will be hard. Dash, from his battle reports is a competent player and and has massive assualt force in this army. If you get into CC with his warriors I would bet it would be because 1200+ points of his army have already been wiped out.

I'd say give the C'tan time arrow. That way when assaulting alongside Wraiths with whip coils, he has a solid chance of making someone miserable

Dash,

I like your concept. I think you're definitely in the right direction here. I do have a couple of questions as to why you chose what you did:

1. Why Imotekh? I admit he's got his uses, but you can accomplish a similar thing with Solar Pulse. His initiative sieze is nice on a 4+, as are Bloodswarm Scarabs (you have no Flayed Ones though).

My suggestion:

* Anarakyr with a Command Barge. 245 points of beastly vehicle death. 24" moves with sweeping attacks. 12" attacks with sweeps on movement to kill things. This guy will perform.
* Nemesor Zahndrekh. Since you have a lot of assault, giving your Wraiths Furious Charge, Counter Attack, Stealth, Tank Hunter and denying those abilities will likely be strong for this list.

2. Why 20 man squads? I know you are trying to build resiliency into your units, but I am kinda-sorta a fan of the Ghost Ark. The problem with a 20 man squad is the real and serious danger of getting swept. And yes, it is harder with a Lord with a Rez Orb but it can still happen. Right Now you are running 850ish points with 2 x 20 man squads + Lord + Ark. Also does limit your mobility in objective grabbing.

My suggestion:

I'd seriously just consider running 2 x 9 man Necron Warrior squads with no Lord (embrace the fact that if you get assaulted you're swept). You can double embrace the horror by doing another 2 x 9
man squads in warriors, or go a bit out there and do 1 or 2 Immortal squads. So for 540 points you can get something like this, which is both durable and numerous as far as
targets:

9 x Necron Warriors
9 x Necron Warriors
9 x Immortals w/ Tesla
9 x Immortals w/ Tesla

Now you can take that 300 points you saved and reinvest them in Crypteks to support those squads. So for instance your final list of troops would look something like this if you took 2 Courts:

9x Necron Warriors
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance, Solar Pulse
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance
9x Necron Warriors
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance, Solar Pulse
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance
9 x Immortals w/ Tesla
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance
9 x Immortals w/ Tesla
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance

8x Str 8 AP 2 shots @ 36" adds a nice punch to your Troops squads. And you have some sweet Solar Pulse action for your Nightfighting.

Total for all this: 860 points

Even better for your list might be this, since you have the C'tan:

9x Necron Warriors
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance, Solar Pulse
Cryptek - Tremorstave
9x Necron Warriors
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance, Solar Pulse
Cryptek - Tremorstave
9 x Immortals w/ Tesla
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance
Cryptek - Tremorstave, Siesmic Crucible
9 x Immortals w/ Tesla
Cryptek - Eldrich Lance
Cryptek - Tremorstave, Siesmic Cruicible

This is madness with the C'tan shard. You can stunt assaults against you, and cause difficult terrain everywhere. Wow, even looking at that makes me sick, lol.

Total for all this: 860 points

I'd only run 4x Troops probably in a 1850 - 2000 point game. But some folks like to run Troop heavy.

3. One last thing I might recommend is reducing your squad size down on your Wraiths to 4 or 5, and doing 1 of two things:

* Add a Destroyer Lord to your list (though remember you close out a second Royal Court of you do this). Someone recommended it, but he is a freaking beast with Wraiths.
* Look at one of your Heavy Support slots. I think a Monolith would still play well with this list. Possibly even a Doomsday Ark, or if you are low on points an Annhiliation Barge (or two).

I'm not 100% sure why you are running 9x Spyders, other than if you want to pull the Scarab mad dash tactic on your 1st turn. Monoliths can give you much needed manueverability. Barges give you
firepower against Hordes. Plus, I think once you add up all the costs on your list you may find yourself actually wanting to spend a low amount of points on your Heavy Support slot!!

4. Swarm of Spirit Dust on your C'tan as well, since you get Defensive and Assault grenadas, and most importantly, Stealth. You could also go Transdimensional Thunderbolt for anti-tank or yes Time's Arrow for Wraith I1 fun in assault.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I think the list is solid, but you can really tweak it out to take advantage of a few neat tricks you can pull with the new Codex.

Edit: I had too much wargear on the Crypteks! Edited to fix the list to make it legal.

Clay Williams wrote:Yes I do think it will be hard. Dash, from his battle reports is a competent player and and has massive assualt force in this army. If you get into CC with his warriors I would bet it would be because 1200+ points of his army have already been wiped out.

Fair enough. From everything I've seen about him, Dash is a highly competent player. I think that's why most people seem to be giving him the benefit of the doubt about running 2 foot-slogging troops in a 2500 pt list. From where I'm sitting though, it looks like a really risky proposition no matter how well it's played. If I heard more from Dash about how he would be playing them, it might start sounding better.

whigwam wrote:

Clay Williams wrote:Yes I do think it will be hard. Dash, from his battle reports is a competent player and and has massive assualt force in this army. If you get into CC with his warriors I would bet it would be because 1200+ points of his army have already been wiped out.

Fair enough. From everything I've seen about him, Dash is a highly competent player. I think that's why most people seem to be giving him the benefit of the doubt about running 2 foot-slogging troops in a 2500 pt list. From where I'm sitting though, it looks like a really risky proposition no matter how well it's played. If I heard more from Dash about how he would be playing them, it might start sounding better.

I have full faith in a really quality player to play nearly anything and do really well. I only recommended a foot troop change because honestly, Necrons can take advantage of Cryptek attachment to get more firepower. I'm also not a huge, huge fan of the Ghost Ark. I think it has its role, but I've been seeing lots and lots of reports of warriors getting swept pretty hard, and the Ark doesn't save you from that.

My goal with my Necron troops is to have a lot of them, in not tiny, but credible-threat squads that can manuever around. If one gets pinched, I can afford to lose it (at maybe some cost to the enemy).

The thing that does give the warriors squads in this list a lot of cover is the 2 squads of Wraiths, which is a ton of screening against assault. So yes they'd have to cut through a lot of army to get to those warrior squads.

Ah, greetings. =D

Lots of responses, I'm grateful. A few notes.

1. I didn't realize that the Royal Court didn't take up an HQ slot. That just made me cackle wildly.

2. Imotekh's (sp?) role in the army is as a force multiplier - I'm not set on any of this yet, but I like the idea of potentially having night fight all game, with Crypteks to put it back on if I lose it. The potential of an alpha-strike from his lightning (across multiple turns) is also attractive, but based on luck....while this game does rely on dice, I prefer to mitigate the role of dice in my games, so I'm not set on this by any means.

3. 20 warriors....I just threw that out. I was aiming for 2k points, so some trimming is in order, probably starting with 20 warriors. I've never used more than two troop choices in games, and have never lost with Necrons, although a large part of my strategy involved teleporting Necrons around the board with my Monoliths.

4. No, I don't particularly like the new book. Wraiths got nerfed (in my opinion, losing initiative and movement), WBB got nerfed, Monoliths got nerfed. Warriors got cheaper, but they lost their 3+ armor save and 4+ WBB, and don't have a second WBB via a Monolith to rely on anymore.

5. Scarabs: I've seen this argued (whether you can add Scarabs to the unit anywhere you like or not). I fall into the camp that you *can* put them anywhere you want. Coherency is irrelevant during placement of models. You check coherency during movement, and if you don't have it, then you move your models into coherency.

6. The wording on death rays is a bit...ambiguous too. Every unit under the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line. If they meant for you to only hit models underneath the line, they could have left out the second "in the unit" and simply said, "equal to the number of models underneath the line." As it is, it seems to read that each unit with models under the line gets hit as many times as they have models. IE, two units of 30 orks, each with models under the line take 30 hits each. *shrugs* I've not put anything into the army that uses that weaponry because it's too contentious at the moment.

That's my thoughts for now; I'll have to add some revisions.

Clay Williams wrote:I would like to see the army that could get into cc with his warriors without completely decimating him to the point it doesn't matter anymore before hand.

The wraiths scarabs and tomb spyders are able to go toe to toe and tie up assault enemies. They arent uber powerful, but they are definitely able to tie up your strongest assault squads.

Dashofpepper wrote:1. I didn't realize that the Royal Court didn't take up an HQ slot. That just made me cackle wildly.

Yes, it is a little silly actually. You can take 2 HQs AND 2 Royal Courts. And the way the wording is working now you can attach a member of each court to a squad. This may be FAQ'd later but it is how people are playing it now.

Essentially allows you to attach 2 "Sargeants" to a squad that have nice stuff and do nasty things to your opponent for about 35-40 points a pop.

Dashofpepper wrote:2. Imotekh's (sp?) role in the army is as a force multiplier - I'm not set on any of this yet, but I like the idea of potentially having night fight all game, with Crypteks to put it back on if I lose it. The potential of an alpha-strike from his lightning (across multiple turns) is also attractive, but based on luck....while this game does rely on dice, I prefer to mitigate the role of dice in my games, so I'm not set on this by any means.

The thing about the Necron HQs is that they don't always provide a clear choice as to what's best for a given list. Imotekh has value, no doubt. If his Lightning goes off, it's free hits. It's free nightfighting. His staff is a nasty shot. As long as you have Solar Pulse, it does not hurt you. He's better if you throw a Chronometreon with him for re-rolls if you want to nigthfight to last extra long. Honestly, I don't fault anyone for their HQ choices in this codex as most of the named HQs serve to enhance your force in some way rather than simply providing individual ability in combat or shooting like some armies HQs.

That being said, the Destroyer Lords are pretty mean.

Dashofpepper wrote:3. 20 warriors....I just threw that out. I was aiming for 2k points, so some trimming is in order, probably starting with 20 warriors. I've never used more than two troop choices in games, and have never lost with Necrons, although a large part of my strategy involved teleporting Necrons around the board with my Monoliths.

I have played and seen the "big brick of warriors". Without monoliths pulling them out of combat, it becomes bad news bears when they get assaulted. Your only hope is having Varguard Obyron in this codex to save them from getting swept by most serious CC units. Plus the hijinks you can pull with Crypteks becomes just too juicy to pass up. Especially running the C'tan shard for difficult terrain.

That being said, expect your opponent to shoot at the C'tan pretty heavy to try to get that impediment out of the way!

Dashofpepper wrote:5. Scarabs: I've seen this argued (whether you can add Scarabs to the unit anywhere you like or not). I fall into the camp that you *can* put them anywhere you want. Coherency is irrelevant during placement of models. You check coherency during movement, and if you don't have it, then you move your models into coherency.

9 x Spyders and Scarabs is worth running until something changes. It is showing competetive against a lot of armies, even those with a lot of CC. I've also seen it blown out of the water by a single pie-plate against IG lists and such-not. I'm bracing for some kind of FAQ to "fix" this at some point though, but until then it's kind of one of those things people are going to groan and moan when you do it.

Dashofpepper wrote:

4. No, I don't particularly like the new book. Wraiths got nerfed (in my opinion, losing initiative and movement), WBB got nerfed, Monoliths got nerfed. Warriors got cheaper, but they lost their 3+ armor save and 4+ WBB, and don't have a second WBB via a Monolith to rely on anymore.

Good points Dash, and I've been reading TSKF for about a year now and know you certainly have a high tactical acumen, but I do disagree with the above.

I strongly believe the Wraiths got an overall buff (per point of model). They lost WBB (roughly half a wound) but gained a full wound, as well as the ability to go full shenanigans on a 6 member squad where you have to take 6 wounds before removing a model. They lost some I but gained the ability to bring anyone down to their I -1, and most importantly to me they gained some much needed punch in CC. Now I understand with your Wraith wing the losses are glaring, particularly the WBB, and the loss of mobility takes away the turbo boost but their assault range is still the same.

Monolith's self survivability went down a notch, somewhat replaced by some synergistic abilities from other units (Lord of FIre C'tan), however its offensive prowess has significantly increased. It can move 6" fire 12 4/5s with a 48" circle of death radius (actually more like 50"), AND drop its ordinance, AND suck people into the death hole (Now of course you generally won't be able to shoot all 4 GFA's, but I think with good placement you'll generally be able to fire 3 out of 4).

Finally I really feel WBB was a net buff. With Res Orb functions very similarly, but Res Orbs themselves became cheaper and much more readily available, and without Res Orb is much more reliable now.

I realise it's mostly conjecture at this point, but I have a feeling once you get a few games under your belt with the new Dex your opinion will change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm curios Dash, since you got a lot more mileage out of the Mono WBB re-roll then I ever did, (I've never had the opportunity to run with 3), but on average how many Warriors/Monolith/game do you think they saved, and do you think on average a GA will be able to compensate for this? One particularly savvy move I see with the GAs is they can all repair the same unit. I envision a box of 20 with GA's in front and on the flanks providing cover, walls against CC, and repairing 3D3 models/turn. Could be nasty.

Say your opponent kills 19 Warriors on his turn but can't assault, you have a RO so 9.5 stand back up, with an additional 4.5 repairing from the GAs. So your back up to 15 warriors and a significant portion of your opponents fire power from the previous turn is completed waisted. Now of course a bit of an ideal situation, but with Imo in the squad to bleed wounds off to his 2+/3++, I think if you watch your saves closely you can keep them at 1+ warrior indefinitely.

Now a lot of people are freaking out about getting swept, but with a 30" dynamic firing range, a hidden lord with a WS/MSS, and Imo, I really don't know too many units that can generate enough wounds against 20 warriors to make getting swept even remotely likely, and that's assuming they can even get to you through your GA's which even if they are dead they are at least providing difficult terrain.

Hmmm 2000 points

HQ: Stormlord Imotekh 225
HQ: Royal Court: Cryptek with Chronometron, Aeonstave, Cryptek with Solar Pulse, Eldritch Lance
HQ: Destroyer Lord, Mindshackle Scarabs - 145

Troop1: 20x Warriors + Ghost Ark - 375 (Cryptek with Chronometron, Imotekh)
Troop2: 5x Warriors + Ghost Ark - 180 (Cryptek with Solar Pulse, Eldritch Lance)

Fast Attack1: 6x Wraiths, 2 Coils, 2 Particle Casters - 240 (Destroyer Lord)
Fast Attack2: 6x Wraiths, 2 Coils, 2 Particle Casters - 240
Fast Attack3: 10x Scarabs - 150

Heavy1: 3x Tomb Spyders, Fabricator Array, Gloom Prism - 175
Heavy2: 3x Tomb Spyders, Fabricator Array, Gloom Prism - 175

Odds are rerolling Imotekh's Nightfight and a Solar pulse give you Nightfight for 3-5 turns. I would say in most games you're better off farming Scarabs the first two turns and having them as bubblewrap while you march this army forward.
Your Arks do have a bit of a vulnerability to Melta but the resilience of everything else is great.

I really don't think the 20 Warrior squad is in much danger of being swept when it's sitting at the heart of a phalanx formation that has 6 Spyders, and all that choppy Fast Attack.

Just to put it in retrospect, a full volley of Dashofpepper’s Darklight Storm against the aforementioned 20 warriors with a res/orb, granting the DE all their DLs Bs and SCs (I figured assuming some kind of ideal placement 18" away from the warriors and TB is enough, giving them all their rifles stretches incredulity to far):

96 SCannons:
32 Wounds:
8 Wounds for Imo (one from each volley): 1.33 Un-saved wounds
24 Wounds for Warriors: 12 Un-saved wounds.

25 DL and B shots:
13.89 Wounds:
2 for Imo (roughly the amount he could take before suffering his third wound): .67 Un-Saved WOunds.
11.89 Wounds for Warriors: 5.945 (call it 6).

So that is 18 warriors laid down before RP is rolled, should be back up to 11 after RP, plus 3D3 from GA's.

And that's from a highly unlikely in an army with Imo alpha strike.