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England rugby legend Martin Johnson will not renew his contract as head coach of England ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/default.stm

Well, we all knew that was coming after the awful showing in the world cup...shame though. Could it be Warren Gatlin (sp?) that takes over?

IMO Johnson shouldn't have had the job in the first place. Being a Legend on the pitch doesn't make a good manager. Names being bandied around are Jim Malender and Dean Ryan..

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:IMO Johnson shouldn't have had the job in the first place. Being a Legend on the pitch doesn't make a good manager. Names being bandied around are Jim Malender and Dean Ryan..

To be honest, someone like Martin Johnson is a great choice. Like Maradona could have been for Agentina football team (I know a lot more about Football than Rugby).
Having a legend on the pitch, become 'manager' I feel for an international side is a good idea. I mean these players all get coached at their clubs, its not a Rugby coach they need in charge, and you can employ a great tactician as assistant/s. Having a leader, someone who can get the respect of the players and fans etc is a good idea in my eyes.

He needs to remain part of the England set up in some form. He has so much experience and knowlege..and players will walk over broken glass for him. BUT he made too many descisions with his heart rather than his head...I say he should be given Rob Andrew's job.

Hmmm, out of those two I think Ryan is a better choice..but the way this sort of thing usually goes it could be either or neither..
I guess it's the same for football managers as well. Being a great player does not make a good manager. Keegan and Shearer can attest to that!

Get Graham Henry in - end of story.

rodgers37 wrote:

To be honest, someone like Martin Johnson is a great choice. Like Maradona could have been for Agentina football team (I know a lot more about Football than Rugby).
Having a legend on the pitch, become 'manager' I feel for an international side is a good idea. I mean these players all get coached at their clubs, its not a Rugby coach they need in charge, and you can employ a great tactician as assistant/s. Having a leader, someone who can get the respect of the players and fans etc is a good idea in my eyes.

Maradonna was coach of the Argentinian football team and pretty much made a balls-up of it at the last world cup - getting a talented team knocked out in the quarter finals. In fact, the opposite is generally had to be true; while a lot of ex-players go into management, few top players go on to make top class managers, at least in the more modern history.

@filbert. Very true - Graham Henry is a prime example of someone with no playing track record but has 30+ years as a coach. Same with football with regards to Wenger/Ferguson/Murinho etc

To be fair to Maradonna, Germany we're damn good last summer.

filbert wrote:

rodgers37 wrote:

To be honest, someone like Martin Johnson is a great choice. Like Maradona could have been for Agentina football team (I know a lot more about Football than Rugby).
Having a legend on the pitch, become 'manager' I feel for an international side is a good idea. I mean these players all get coached at their clubs, its not a Rugby coach they need in charge, and you can employ a great tactician as assistant/s. Having a leader, someone who can get the respect of the players and fans etc is a good idea in my eyes.

Maradonna was coach of the Argentinian football team and pretty much made a balls-up of it at the last world cup - getting a talented team knocked out in the quarter finals. In fact, the opposite is generally had to be true; while a lot of ex-players go into management, few top players go on to make top class managers, at least in the more modern history.

Yeah I know he was, I was saying it could have worked out. In theory having someone like him, as a kind of role model (not that he's a good role model) as an International manager could work. As club manager, I don't think it would in the same way as club is where the players learn their trade. Say if England decided to get Beckham in as coach, but then had someone like Cappello as the assistant who would be making most of the tactical decisions, but Becks would deal with the players and media and probably do that better than a lot of managers seem to have been able to do with England in recent history. It might be a terrible idea, but I think Becks should be England manager, but he's probably not good enough to be 'managing' a team in a tactical sense. (He would be better for the players than say, ex Norwich manager Glenn Roeder who was terrible with the media and players, lost their respect and the fans pretty quickly yet was quite tactically shrewd and now I believe is in some kind of scout position somewhere, while someone like Beckham may not be tactically shrewd but in theory would have the respect of the players and fans quite easily.)

English football is littered with failure on the international stage (hence my user name) keep beckham away from the england job!

Back on Topic - Nick Mallet is being bandied around. RFU should have pulled the finger out and got Edwards instead of letting the sheep hoover him up. Damn them!

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

To be fair to Maradonna, Germany we're damn good last summer.

There is an element of truth to that, however Maradonna managed to get the same Argentina team tonked 6-1 by Bolivia prior to the World Cup so there is also an element of tactical naivety involved there.

Ruigby-wise, Clive Woodward was a pretty good example too; a fairly mediocre player but a decent manager?

rodgers37 wrote:
It might be a terrible idea, but I think Becks should be England manager...

You're right, it's a terrible idea. Personally, I think the 'Team Beckham' circus shouldn't be allowed within 100 miles of the national set-up. It was painful to watch him trying to worm his way into the England camp at the last World Cup once it was clear that his international career was over.

IMO, he was an average player at best who had a bit of luck in emerging in the team that he did, mixed with a talent for striking a dead ball at a time when England needed a 'star' to pin its hopes on, amalgamated with a surprising shrewdness at manipulating the media (probably due in part to Mrs Beckham's constant machinations to boost brand Beckham).

Filbert, the one good thing that Steve Mac did was get rid of the Beckham circus, and for that, I am eternally grateful...

Back on topic - how the hell did Rob Andrew survive? If that guy was on the Titanic, he'd probably escape on a luxury yacht and get a ticket refund!

David Beckham is a legend.
Not the best player ever, but certainly better than average (playing regular football for the best team in England for around 8 seasons).

Having a 'great' manager in Cappello (even Sven) hasn't really worked out for England, so maybe its time to try something different? The only current English manager good enough for the job is Harry Redknapp, and he won't be as good as he is at a club because his best attribute is buying & selling players, ok he's set up quite a good system at Spurs as well, but I don't think he would be a wonderful England manager. Next best, unfortunately thats Neil Warnock....

Its really not fair to say English football is littered with failure, to be honest were not that good and its only media/fan expectation that then leads to the inevitable 'Oh England have failed again, their rubbish' comments that come after getting knocked out at quarters in majour tournaments. We've always had some good players, but the team as a whole has never been good enough, and without some serious work won't be. Look at English league football today and see how many of the English players look better for their clubs because of the players around them.

(Sorry to hijack your Rugby thread with football, maybe I should start a Football one and continue the discussion on there?)

Nick Mallett, currently managing the Azuri (the Italians..) has revealed he was approached by th RFU; but has ruled out the possibility of the England job..

Poison chalice anyone???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sporting Life's view of who the main candidate are...

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyunion/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rugby/11/11/17/RUGBYU_England_Contenders.

Jim Malliender of Northampton has said he would be interested. Of all the other front runners, only Eddie Jones has said he is keen...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15800522.stm