Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was recently flicking through a friend's tyranid codex & noticed the tyrannofex.

No tyranid players Ive ever met use one, and I've never heard of one being used. Why is this? it seems like the strength 10 gun, template weapon that wounds on 2+ mounted on a solid MC is a good deal, with the S 10 potentially able to fill an anti-tank role 'nids are struggling with. Is it too much of a points sink?

Just to be clear I'm not a 'nid player, I ask only out of interest.

Too many points, no model, and it competes with fex,trygon, or even biovores.

DarthSpader wrote:Too many points, no model, and it competes with fex,trygon, or even biovores.

Pretty much sums it up.

I don't play Nids myself, but two of my buddies do. Everytime they field one it does pretty much nothing but draw fire if I have nothing else to shoot at.

Kirby 3++ is the new black has a lott of uses for them. Often in a mobile war sett up with hive guards.

http://www.3plusplus.net/search/label/Tyranids

I just got 2 of them for $30 off Ebay, and I'm eager to give them a test drive. They seem pretty trashy at first glance, but I hate Zoanththropes and currently have no Hive Guard, so they're the only S10 I have.

They'd be worth every point if they were bs4.

Sadly, at bs3, your two shots only average out to 1 hit per turn, but every tyranid player i've met who's used them (including myself) will tell you they whiff way more often than that in general practice (or at least that's how it seems).

They're good to offer a cover save to tervigons, as they advance and shoot tanks, eventually making it to combat possibly. But in the end they suffer from TMC syndrome - no invuln save, hard to get cover saves for, and anti-tank weapons gloss them like lighting on sand. For the points you're better off getting a trygon prime, because they are uber killy in CC and have fleet.

Use the ones you have, try them out, and if I'm wrong more better for you. It's just been personal experience that for me they've never made their points back, even via distraction tactics...

I would run one if they had a model. As it is, they're overcosted too.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I would run one if they had a model. As it is, they're overcosted too.

Agreed 100%. I'd deal with the point cost if there was a model to use. Instead I have to kludge one together, or use Trygons or Carnifexen. I'll go with the Trygons/Carnifexen.

The problem is Trygons are scary good, and their model exists. therefore no competition.

and both Zoanthrope and Carnifex can do it's job.

DarthSpader wrote:Too many points, no model, and it competes with fex,trygon, or even biovores.

No model=no problem. Tyranid players figure something out real damn quick if they want to play with a unit that has no model such as the Tervigon.

Competition with the other tyranid heavy support slots isn't a problem either. It's not like we are talking about an elites slot, and few players run a triple trygon list..

The point cost is the 1 and only deal killer. 250 points would be a decent deal if the rupture cannons were twin linked, or it came with built in regeneration and didn't have to give up the acid spray to take rupture cannons. It's just to many points for what it does.

It seems that whenever GW writes a unit that can shoot a lot of shots, they overprice it and make sure its BS isn't too impressive.

Logic may say that 1 S10 shot a turn is great, but after factoring in having to penetrate and then roll on the damage table it really is atrocious in practice. I have used it three times, and in all that time it has wrecked one dreadnought and took a weapon off one land raider. As stated, BS4 would be a huge boon.

for 265 points the dam thing sure had 4 shot and twin-link. I do used them in my Bug army, love them but dam GW for not making a model.

I just used one with a rupture cannon at an 1850 tourney and it did quite well.

1st game it blew up a blood angel storm raven after soaking up it's blood strike missiles and other guns, then blew a turret off a Razorback and another off a predator. Lived through the game. Nids won.

2nd game it blew up 3 razorbacks and almost got revenge on a wolf priest that had jawed my doom and a mawloc in one spell, hate that spell.
Lived that game too, in fact was the only thing that lived. Clearly Nids lost

3rd game, Sniped down a Greater daemon of Khorn to 2 wounds(who later got finished off by brain leech worms, and forced his soulgrinder into combat faster than it would have liked in fear of getting blown off the table. He lived through that game to. Nids won

So to answer your question yeah, he kicks ass but you need to use him intelligently, screen a tervigon with him unless your playing wolves, damn jaw spell. Also take time to make a large tank sized monster with a big gun that turns heads, people get scared and shoot a lot of stuff his way and he is one of the few large critters in the book that laughs at krak missiles and can dish it out in return.

Another thing I do with him is target independent characters when I can, unless they have eternal warrior if they fail their save their toast.

He has good range and is tough as nails, he also surprises the hell out of folks when they think they have him in combat and he proceeds to drop 2 templates on them.

He isn't paladin good, or purifyer good or mindlock scarab good but he does something the nids need, long range anti armor.

It's the toughest thing in the codex. The only other model in there that can get a 2+ save is the tyrant, and that has two less wounds. So it can take quite a beating, with krak missiles just bouncing off.

It's also the only thing in the codex that can reach right across the table on the first turn and potentially wreck an expensive vehicle.

It has some fierce competition in the heavy support slots, but it certainly has a place in some lists.

BS3 is awful for an MC designed for shooting. It's rupture cannon isn't even twin-linked!

Close up you have a 265 point model with no invul. Difference between the Tfex and Trygon here is initiative - I4 means that trygon at least has a chance to kill the power fists before they get to strike while TFex is only I1.

ruminator wrote:BS3 is awful for an MC designed for shooting. It's rupture cannon isn't even twin-linked!

Close up you have a 265 point model with no invul. Difference between the Tfex and Trygon here is initiative - I4 means that trygon at least has a chance to kill the power fists before they get to strike while TFex is only I1.

This.

Yes, the gun is awesome. Yes, the 2+ save is awesome. But on a 265pt model? Any dedicated CC unit will kill it before it gets a chance to swing, and many non-dedicated ones will as well.

rigeld2 wrote:

ruminator wrote:BS3 is awful for an MC designed for shooting. It's rupture cannon isn't even twin-linked!

Close up you have a 265 point model with no invul. Difference between the Tfex and Trygon here is initiative - I4 means that trygon at least has a chance to kill the power fists before they get to strike while TFex is only I1.

This.

Yes, the gun is awesome. Yes, the 2+ save is awesome. But on a 265pt model? Any dedicated CC unit will kill it before it gets a chance to swing, and many non-dedicated ones will as well.

IG players never gripe about the BS3 of a Vendetta. BS3 is fantastic for a MC designed for shooting provided the weapon is twin linked....

rigeld2 wrote:

ruminator wrote:BS3 is awful for an MC designed for shooting. It's rupture cannon isn't even twin-linked!

Close up you have a 265 point model with no invul. Difference between the Tfex and Trygon here is initiative - I4 means that trygon at least has a chance to kill the power fists before they get to strike while TFex is only I1.

This.

Yes, the gun is awesome. Yes, the 2+ save is awesome. But on a 265pt model? Any dedicated CC unit will kill it before it gets a chance to swing, and many non-dedicated ones will as well.

That is, of course, ignoring that it is T6 with 6 Wounds. I'd run a Tyrannofex near the back of my lines so there shouldn't be any CC units near it.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:That is, of course, ignoring that it is T6 with 6 Wounds. I'd run a Tyrannofex near the back of my lines so there shouldn't be any CC units near it.

Yeah, because there's no outflanking, deep striking, etc. units that could get there

Bah, why run it in the back? Charge it forward giving cover for your other units. A dedicated CC squad has to do 6 power weapon wounds to a T6 target to kill it without it swinging. Either way, they now blew their load to try to kill your big gun, and are in perfect position to get eaten alive by the rest of your army.
Thanks for bringing them out of cover so my bugs who GW didn't give grenades too can attack first. Oh, and if you didn't manage to kill it, now it keeps walking up threatening.

racta wrote:Bah, why run it in the back? Charge it forward giving cover for your other units. A dedicated CC squad has to do 6 power weapon wounds to a T6 target to kill it without it swinging. Either way, they now blew their load to try to kill your big gun, and are in perfect position to get eaten alive by the rest of your army.
Thanks for bringing them out of cover so my bugs who GW didn't give grenades too can attack first. Oh, and if you didn't manage to kill it, now it keeps walking up threatening.

.... or one force weapon hit with no save at all!

It's difficult to kill outside of CC granted, but not threatening enough for it's points value by any means.

The tyrannofex only needs a little extra something for it to be useful. Like, if it had all the weapons base for 250. Or it was much cheaper. Or the rupture cannon was more reliable (more shots and twin linked).

As it stands, the only reason it gets mentioned at all is because the nid book is so bad that the tyrannofex is really the only option you have. Venom cannons got nerfed SO BAD, as did barbed stranglers. Hive guard and zoanthropes are good, but both are heavy shooting units stuck in the elite slot. So after you fill up your elites, only the tyrannofex exists for high strength shots that are not terrible venom cannons.

Imagine if Zoanthropes were heavy and hive guard remained elite. I doubt the tyrannofex would have ever been mentioned, when for 70 less points you would be able to take zoanthropes as heavys with 3 bs4 s10 ap1 lance shots. Sure less range and with the psychic test drawback, but still 9 zoanthropes would be miles better of a shooting unit than 3 tyrannofex when also paired with 9 hive guard.

Does no one use acid spray?

I have enjoyed incredible success with Tyrannofexen using the acid spray, 2+ to wound (dessicator) template, and the Str5 large blast. Few people realize how many wounds you can cause with the tamplate when you get to place it how you want, especially with the typical 2+ to wound (sometimes 3+, but not often!).

I use these guys as anti-infantry: Hive Guard can deal with tanks. Two tyrannofexen are incredibly hard for the enemy to deal with, and you're causing a huge number of armour saves for MEQ's.

I had a problem with Sisters of Battle: Jacobus and Death Cult Assassins. Str6 ID removed the FNP, and the invulnerable saves just didn't cut it. I've ID'd several Cannonesses, as well.

Try the acid spray, you might find it useful! He draws a ton of fire as well, which takes the pressure off other critters.

250 points for something the Tyranid codex already does pretty well is too much.

SBG wrote:Does no one use acid spray?

I have enjoyed incredible success with Tyrannofexen using the acid spray, 2+ to wound (dessicator) template, and the Str5 large blast. Few people realize how many wounds you can cause with the tamplate when you get to place it how you want, especially with the typical 2+ to wound (sometimes 3+, but not often!).

I use these guys as anti-infantry: Hive Guard can deal with tanks. Two tyrannofexen are incredibly hard for the enemy to deal with, and you're causing a huge number of armour saves for MEQ's.

I had a problem with Sisters of Battle: Jacobus and Death Cult Assassins. Str6 ID removed the FNP, and the invulnerable saves just didn't cut it. I've ID'd several Cannonesses, as well.

Try the acid spray, you might find it useful! He draws a ton of fire as well, which takes the pressure off other critters.

I never got my Tryannofex that close to any of my opponent, but I do take the acid spray just incase.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:I never got my Tryannofex that close to any of my opponent, but I do take the acid spray just incase.

So no Rupture Cannon? Because it's one or the other. Or the Fleshborer Hive but really - no one should take that.

The problem most people have with it and this thread is ever evident of this, is they treat as just a BS 3 2 Shot S 10 AP 4, when it is much much more then that if used correctly.

tyrannofex+onslaught=nails

Run that bad boy up the field while dropping his S 10 shot and get his flabby pie plate/template dropping self close to the enemy. The T-Fexs damage output increases substantially once all three weapons are in range.

The T-Fex = ~(Broadside) Stop using it as such your happiness will increase substantially.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: he has some CC shortages but...your NIDS! CC is a contingency you can prepare for in spades.

ShadarLogoth wrote:The problem most people have with it and this thread is ever evident of this, is they treat as just a BS 3 2 Shot S 10 AP 4, when it is much much more then that if used correctly.

tyrannofex+onslaught=nails

Having Onslaught means that you skipped out on Catalyst. No thanks.

IG88 wrote:I just used one with a rupture cannon at an 1850 tourney and it did quite well.

1st game it blew up a blood angel storm raven after soaking up it's blood strike missiles and other guns, then blew a turret off a Razorback and another off a predator. Lived through the game. Nids won.

2nd game it blew up 3 razorbacks and almost got revenge on a wolf priest that had jawed my doom and a mawloc in one spell, hate that spell.
Lived that game too, in fact was the only thing that lived. Clearly Nids lost

3rd game, Sniped down a Greater daemon of Khorn to 2 wounds(who later got finished off by brain leech worms, and forced his soulgrinder into combat faster than it would have liked in fear of getting blown off the table. He lived through that game to. Nids won

So to answer your question yeah, he kicks ass but you need to use him intelligently, screen a tervigon with him unless your playing wolves, damn jaw spell. Also take time to make a large tank sized monster with a big gun that turns heads, people get scared and shoot a lot of stuff his way and he is one of the few large critters in the book that laughs at krak missiles and can dish it out in return.

Another thing I do with him is target independent characters when I can, unless they have eternal warrior if they fail their save their toast.

He has good range and is tough as nails, he also surprises the hell out of folks when they think they have him in combat and he proceeds to drop 2 templates on them.

He isn't paladin good, or purifyer good or mindlock scarab good but he does something the nids need, long range anti armor.

Disclaimer: Tyrannofex are <3 when you are lucky with dice.

But so are everything else lol