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I was wondering what Dakka thought of Snipers. I see them as a cool weapon, but not that useful. Pinning is good and Rending is alright, and when I'm versing Orks, I put Telion with them to take out a Nob amongst Boyz. Besides this... meh. If they want to take out a vehicle they need to roll a 6 on a D6 and then they only get another D3 for Armour Penetration. If your incredibly they can take out armour 12. This just doesn't seem to work. Also, wounding on a 4+ always seems or hard a bit rough. For a MC 4+ is ridiculous, but for an ork grot or something like that, 4+ is stupid. The only thing that could warrant such stats is it's low cost and it's pinning rule. Does anybody else think this, or is it just me?

I think 4 snipers and a missile launcher scout squad is a steal for 85 points. Consider the common av11 vehicle.

3 sniper shots needing 4+ to hit and one needing 3+, 6 followed by 5+ to pen. That is an expected .12 penetrating hits.

Now a standard HK missile hits on 3+, pens on a 4+. That is an expected .33 pens.

So after 3 rounds of shooting those 4 sniper rifles are as good as a s8 HK missile. That is amazing considering that the sniper was a free upgrade, AND has a 36 inch range.

All in all, you dont take scouts for their sniper rifles. You take them because they are scoring, they have infiltrate and scout for either blocking enemy alpha strikes or outflanking, and they are cheap. The fact they are also a really good shooting unit with sniper rifles and a missile launcher (point for point) is a bonus.

Yeah sniper rules suck. The 4+ to wound means they aren't ever going to hurt much. They just rely too much on luck, and can't be brought in sufficent numbers to really do damage. The missile launcher does more for me than the snipers ever do.

Scouts look cool.
Tactical marine with bolter is usually better.

Best use seems to be 5 with camo cloaks who go to ground on the objective in your DZ with a 2+ cover.

-Matt

4+ is bad? Granted, a 50% chance is not awesome, but it's better than nothing.

Better than nothing? sure - but that's setting the bar pretty low. What its not better than, is basically any other option.

That is a problem.

Add Telion to a group of sniper scouts w/ missile launcher. That a) gives them stealth thus granting them more protection amd b) provides you a ML that only misses once in a blue moon and c) provides you the ability to snipe special weapons, sarges, nobs and SCs inside units.

Granted, telions good, but thats one of the few reasons I like scouts. Really, ridiculously low chance of hurting the weakest vehicle, and today, a good sniper with a good sniper rifle can take out a lightly armoured personnel carrier. 40,000 years in the future, you'd be lucky if you could damage an ork trukk.
I personally think that snipers should have a set strength. 4+ can be both good and bad.

4+ to wound when hitting rank and file troops is not that great.

4+ to wound when shooting a big bug or a Deathknight, now I am listening. But 4 sniper rifles are just not enough.

For me the trick is to take a unit of 10 with a Thunder Cannon. Combat Squad them and still deploy them in the same piece of terrain. Target the big guys with them, taking at least a wound or two off per turn, and if there are no big guys left then either try for light armor or try to pin some infantry.

With the fortification rule and cloaks they have a 2+ cover save and can survive a lot of shooting. And the cannon brings some great support to the scouts for 100 points.

I have always had great luck with them, but my experience is that you either take 10 or none.

I totally agree with you D-USA. You can also take CC scouts and split them for the cases where your 2+ covers turn to CC. I like setting corner and corner, no matter what the ML, HB, or Cannon will have side armor shots. And each squad can cover the other when enemies get too close...

Personally, i like Snipers, they're fun.

I'm currently messing with Hex Rifles, and would love to be able to take a squad with 4 of them in.

3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, then a chance to remove multi-wound from play is funny, if unlikely, though I tend to get at least 1 turn-to-glass a game. xD

4+ to wound isn't so bad now with the number of MCs available, or that most of the better Necron units are T5. Your bolters only wound on a 5+ against them. As a highly effective combat unit, no they aren't great. As an objective camper with decent shooting and some anti-tank (should always take the missile launcher) they aren't bad, esp for 85 points.

I like them with camo cloaks and the teleport homer. You can push them forward to mess with Scout moves and such plus help bring in deep strikes, or you can put them on an objective deep in cover. 4+ from cover, then 3+ from cloaks, and then 2+ from going to ground. Not a bad objective holder for the price.

Very flexible. The fact that they can get lucky is just a bonus.