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I posed this question on this forum a few years back, and most people then seemed to think that only Spaces Marines and their offshoot books (BA, SW, BT, DA) fell under the umbrella of "Space Marines". Since then, the DH book has been replaced by Codex: Grey Knights, a book which much more closely resembles space marines than DH did, and the CSM have been pulled away from daemons and their former uniqueness so much that many simply refer to them as just spikey marines. So, with all the changes that have occurred since I last asked, what constitutes "Just another space marine army"?

Is power armor and a bolter of some sort enough to be called a space marine? Do the GK and CSM books still have enough flavor and differences in them to be called something other than Space Marines? Do SoB, despite their difference, fall under this category?

Personally I'm still of the opinion that only Space Marines and their direct offshoots count, and that GK/Chaos still do not count.

"Just another Space Marine" to me is all the loyalist Adeptus Astartes codex's. Grey Knights just scrap by having enough flavor to them to be considered unique as an army, but not from a fluff standpoint.

Really I get why GW releases so many SM codex's but personally I'm just sick and over-saturated of it all. Personally I'd just want an SM and Grey Knight codex with all individual chapters just having conversion sets/special models/fluff/unique rules released in expansions or White Dwarf.

Sorry dude, the clue is in the name...Chaos Space Marines. They were loyalist, and remain Space Marines. Same training, same weapons and same armour.

Plus, they are sooo much cooler than the good guys!

Voted for any normal marine chapter. Grey Knights and Deathwatch are something else. Chaos certainly don't count as a marine army.

I picked all general (NOT GK!) marine codexes. I just find it so infuriating when people decide that Ultramarines are the only real marines, the rest are just filler. I play BA and DA (If you want to go back to 3rd edition, IIRC, Angels of Death) and I think that people who just play Ultramarines "'Cause they're the best!" ought to have their own models rammed down their throat. I understand if you believe that the colours are cool, or you generally like the characters, fine.

C:SM, CA, C:BA, C:SW, C:BT are what I think of when someone says "Space Marines".

Grey Knights are somewhat different, as are Chaos Space Marines.

Vaktathi wrote:C:SM, CA, C:BA, C:SW, C:BT are what I think of when someone says "Space Marines".

Grey Knights are somewhat different, as are Chaos Space Marines.

This is my thinking as well.

To those who have picked GK and CSM as well, was that your back when CSM still was full of daemons and GK were part of the DH book?

I think that bolter, rhinos, and SM statline fall under SM books. So CSM, C:SM, C:BA, etc are all SM books.

All of the loyal Astartes chapters. Grey Knights come across as different owing to their wargear and habits and whatnot, and CSM are spikey traitors, and therefore don't share the same umbrella.

I'm tired of 3+ armor, 2+/5+ terminator armor with stats of 4 across the board. I am fine with SOB, and chaos getting an update. I put GK squarely in line with the rest of space marines. I would love an update to my DA codex but to be honest I would love to see an updated Tau,Chaos,Chaos Legions, and Ork update first. Stop doing so much IOM GW please for the love of the C'tan.

runmymouth wrote:I'm tired of 3+ armor, 2+/5+ terminator armor with stats of 4 across the board. I am fine with SOB, and chaos getting an update. I put GK squarely in line with the rest of space marines. I would love an update to my DA codex but to be honest I would love to see an updated Tau,Chaos,Chaos Legions, and Ork update first. Stop doing so much IOM GW please for the love of the C'tan.

You missed Eldar. They should be updated as well.

If you can use one armies mins as mins for the army, then they are close enough. Basically everyone but SOB.

mef989 wrote:To those who have picked GK and CSM as well, was that your back when CSM still was full of daemons and GK were part of the DH book?

Back when CSM had Daemons and GK were part of DH, I'd say that they were 50% Space Marine armies.

Now, they're just another flavor of SM.

Castiel wrote:

runmymouth wrote:I'm tired of 3+ armor, 2+/5+ terminator armor with stats of 4 across the board. I am fine with SOB, and chaos getting an update. I put GK squarely in line with the rest of space marines. I would love an update to my DA codex but to be honest I would love to see an updated Tau,Chaos,Chaos Legions, and Ork update first. Stop doing so much IOM GW please for the love of the C'tan.

You missed Eldar. They should be updated as well.

Good call, yes Eldar too.

Basically anyone created from the genetic material of the Primarchs is what classifies someone as a space marine.

This includes all chapters of loyalist marines including the Grey Knights, and the chaos marines. But not the Sisters of battle.

Once upon a time, I would have considered the Chaos codex as a non-space marine codex. Then they removed all of the non-marines from it, so now I merely play pointy marines.

Stupid fething generic daemons......

A marine is a marine is a marime. And sometimes a spikey marine.

There all the same, esp vanilla through space wolves. Gks are only different with the archaic knight look. And that they polish their armor more then a ultrasmurf.

Choas can be different, but they are mostly marine.

Does the fact that one can make a Coteaz list with no GK at all help their case at all?

Any S4 T4 3+ save ARMIES (not just units) are "just another marine army" (JAMA) to me.

Grey marines, black marines, green marines, those other green ones, the blue ones, yellow ones, red ones, silver ones and even the ones with the skull and spike fetish are all JAMA to me.

mef989 wrote:Does the fact that one can make a Coteaz list with no GK at all help their case at all?

That's an exception to the rule. It's still primarily a marine army.

DeathReaper wrote:Basically anyone created from the genetic material of the Primarchs is what classifies someone as a space marine.

This includes all chapters of loyalist marines including the Grey Knights, and the chaos marines. But not the Sisters of battle.

Que?

mef989 wrote:Does the fact that one can make a Coteaz list with no GK at all help their case at all?

Unless you're taking bloated henchmen units and assassins as elites and don't intend on taking any Fast Attack or Heavy Support or non-chimera transports, it's hard to make a GK army without any GK's at most common points levels.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Sorry dude, the clue is in the name...Chaos Space Marines. They were loyalist, and remain Space Marines. Same training, same weapons and same armour.

They don't have the same stuff. If anything, CSM are better due to their CCW and pistols. Now the codex is an issue to some however...

juraigamer wrote:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Sorry dude, the clue is in the name...Chaos Space Marines. They were loyalist, and remain Space Marines. Same training, same weapons and same armour.

They don't have the same stuff. If anything, CSM are better due to their CCW and pistols. Now the codex is an issue to some however...

In 3.5 I would have agreed with you completely, that really did make chaos marines leagues above the loyalists. But with SW getting bolters and CCW with CA and then blood angels getting assault marines as troops that advantage isn't as great as before. I miss 3.5 chaos

SOB don't count for me since they lack the statline, the genetic augmentation and crucially implantation of geneseed descended from the primarchs and ultimately distilled from the Emperor which make them his sons. Grey knights still recieve this so coun,t and even chaos marines are simply the fallen sons of the emperor when it comes down to it. Granted both armies have alternate daemons and Inq elements but the focus (title) is upon the big guys.

Space Marines and offshoot chapters. GK and Chaos seem to be dangerously close to getting renamed 'Space Marines, but Better' and 'Space Marines, but Worse, but being Evil makes up for it', respectively.

Anything that is an actual marine book.

People who claim Sisters are marines are ignorant or trolls. Sisters are not Marines in the same way that Eldar are not Orks.

Hmm... well, Orks don't wear the same armour or use the same weapons as Eldar, so your comparison is a bit off.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Basically anyone created from the genetic material of the Primarchs is what classifies someone as a space marine.

This includes all chapters of loyalist marines including the Grey Knights, and the chaos marines. But not the Sisters of battle.

Que?

The Grey Knight Primarch is the emperor himself, they come from his flesh, that is why they are all psychic.

Their gene-seed is suspected to have been taken from the Emperor directly.

Melissia wrote:Anything that is an actual marine book.

People who claim Sisters are marines are ignorant or trolls. Sisters are not Marines in the same way that Eldar are not Orks.

While I agree that sisters can't be put in the same category as marines, they are far more similar than Orks and Eldar. Orks and Eldar don't have identical wargear, Sisters and Space Marines do (e.g. Power Armor, Bolter, Frag/Krak grenades, similar heavy/special weapons, etc).