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2011/11/30 10:31:08
Subject: My army list how it looks now.(old name 1.5K WOC vs O&G)
Friday i have my first game of WFB, i have 2150 pts of WoC and my first match is against O&G.
Now i have an armylist of my army but the game is 1500 pts,
Now i would like to ask you, almighty dakka,what should i take from my army to slaughter the greenskins?
All i know my opponent has 60 boyz a lot of goblin netters and no doom diver or rock lobbas and the rest...idk what to expect.
My army:
Lords & heroes
Chaos exalted hero 129 pts hand weapon & mok (max 50 pts magic items) (max 25 aan gifts)
Chaos Sorcerer 140 pts(lvl 2 upgrade)(mot) (gifts max 25 pts) (magic items max 50 pts)
Deamon prince 310 pts(max 100 pts aan gifts) mok
I wouldn't worry about tooling to fight greenskins, though honestly the thing you'd want most in that case is warhounds to release fanatics with and sit on mangler squigs. Since that's not an option you can try to do it with spawn, but it will be trickier (I know from experience ). Here's my shot at a list:
Sorcerer is a level 3 on offense (3 spells, +3 to cast), with a rock solid 4/4+ save to keep him around a little while. Not sure where I'd put him, perhaps outside of a unit if you can keep him from getting charged? Because being in either combat block means he'll be swept into combat, where tizz spells are not all that useful.
Exalted BSB is being played by your chosen standard bearer, and is neither a slouch on offense (5 S6) or too bad on defense (4/4+ vs non-magic), just make sure he stays away from magic attaks. O&G don't have too many of those, probably just a magic weapon on the general and maybe the sniper spell to worry about.
Warriors are brutal, and while halberds would be preferred a 3+ armor save ain't bad (better than +1A for the front row IMO). Flaming to flip trolls over and scare chariots, cavalry, etc. The marauders are better off combined into one big horde of lumberjack death.
Knights are solid to keep around vs weak O&G troops, and without doomdivers fanatics will be about their biggest concern. Top Tip: Don't use your knights to draw fanatics The ogres are also going to be nice counter-charge against anything, but could probably excel head-on vs anything that isn't going to net them. 20 S4 attaks + 4 S4 stomps is brutal against mostly naked T3/4 infantry!
And finally, there's a spawn. Keep him cheap and keep your expectations low, but I say give him a shot
Too bad i can't get any warhouds for this game, in the future i shall have at least 10 to 15.
Thnx for the effort to make an list but the agreedment accepts no proxies and i have no musician @ my ogres.
furthermore is it better to have 2 spawns to 4 ogres or 6 ogres and 1 spawn?
sorceror will be at bay anytime.
About the BSB chosen, you'd let my chosen out of the list so no bsb then?
I know fanatics are a pain and to be honest i've seen my opponent assemble a lot yesterday so i'm excepting a lot of em.
At last i would like to thank you cuz i have an army but no idea what spells/gifts to add and what the best are for MOK you've brought me an idea what a good 1.5k list looks like! thnx man!
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
Wolf_Ov_The_Void wrote:Thnx for the effort to make an list but the agreedment accepts no proxies and i have no musician @ my ogres.
About the BSB chosen, you'd let my chosen out of the list so no bsb then?
I meant to use your chosen standard bearer model as an exalted hero with battle standard. My own BSB is a conversion of the chosen standard bearer And yes, I left the chosen out, because 10 isn't worth taking, and because you need the standard for your BSB!
On the ogres, you guys seriously can't imagine that one of the ogres just yells? That's how the Ogre Kingdoms ogre models do it, and they call it a "bellower" to make it all the more clear. And IMO, "proxying" an ogre musician would be more like using a spawn to represent him, not taking an ogre model with an open mouth and "counting him as" an ogre with musician. "Proxy" and "counts as" are very different (sorry for the lecture!)
- Salvage
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/30 20:10:12
Wolf_Ov_The_Void wrote:is it better to have 2 spawns to 4 ogres or 6 ogres and 1 spawn?
Is this in regards to the list I posted up? Because I don't think you can swing the extra points without gouging a bit deeper than you want to.
If we're talking in a vacuum, most people will tell you 6 ogres are far better because spawn are 'mostly useless.' Me, I'd probably go with the two spawn, but I like 360 chargers and under-performing units My concern with 6 ogres is that that many might make you think that they can take other units on head-on, rather than in combination with an infantry block (or even the knights), when in reality they really can't. 6 ogres (with no weapon upgrades) = 18 WS3 S4 attaks + 3 S4 stomps (assuming run 3-wide), which isn't actually going to accomplish too many kills. I guess the rank is a bonus, if you can keep it, for disruption purposes?
Thnx! i'll run the 6 ogres i guess for shielding the warriors and killin'some gobbos. got myself a box of warhouds so flanking the units with the knights/warriors should be no problem
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
The ogres are also going to be nice counter-charge against anything, but could probably excel head-on vs anything that isn't going to net them. 20 S4 attaks + 4 S4 stomps is brutal against mostly naked T3/4 infantry!
And finally, there's a spawn. Keep him cheap and keep your expectations low, but I say give him a shot
- Salvage
Played 4 games with this list(last 2 games with 10 chosen added for the extra punch at 1750 pts). ogres have 3 attacks per unit not 5 as far as i know, maybe they have 5 attacks in OK ?
Spawns are doing just fine with movement(running along with the hounds causing trouble for enemy blocks) the real slaughterhouse is atm my warriors and knights as the marauders are picking up giants/monsters and killing them in 2-3 turns.
So that works great, but my last game i got slaughtered in the first 2 turns. 31 of my marauders died(2 shots of a mortar) before even my hounds reached the gunline of the empire(with 2 mortars and cannon in it). what can i do against shooty armiers with a lot of gunlines/mortars?
Funny thing is, the 2 games i've played with my chosen they never got in combat so i dont know what they do so i'll run some games with em'
Is an hellcannon worth the price you pay or should i take another sorceror(if yes what level is reccomended at a pt range of 2000-2500ish?) a mos or mon ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/14 15:42:29
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
Wolf_Ov_The_Void wrote:ogres have 3 attacks per unit not 5 as far as i know, maybe they have 5 attacks in OK ?
Base 3 attaks +1 for additional hand weapon +1 for frenzy = 5 attaks each when in base contact (3 supporting). Hopefully you weren't shortchanging yourself!
Spawns are doing just fine with movement(running along with the hounds causing trouble for enemy blocks)
You are moving them 2D6", right? Unless your rolls are awesome this makes them incredibly slow (average 7") compared to anything that isn't a dwarf
what can i do against shooty armiers with a lot of gunlines/mortars?
I don't know, complain? I've never enjoyed gunlines and I sort of think mortars are broken ... Perhaps an exalted hero of tizz on disc with golden eye, charmed shield, bloodcurdling roar and halberd? Fast enough to jump on war machines Turn 2, tough enough to shrug off most any shooting, and useful for fighting other stuff (rear charges!) in later turns.
Funny thing is, the 2 games i've played with my chosen they never got in combat so i dont know what they do so i'll run some games with em'
Are they dying before reaching combat? Because 10 of them is very very small, and doomed to either be neutralized by magic / shooting or bounce off in combat with too few attaks. Either make them 15+ or save your points.
Is an hellcannon worth the price you pay or should i take another sorceror(if yes what level is reccomended at a pt range of 2000-2500ish?) a mos or mon ?
Hellcannons are quite underpriced, so yes they are well worth 205 points. You should certainly give one a shot. Another sorcerer might be a good idea @ 2000+, though at that point I'd probably take your sorcerer and make him a level 4 lord, so you can get the +4 to dispel and cast (+5 if you stick with tizz!)
- Salvage
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/14 16:19:06
Wolf_Ov_The_Void wrote:ogres have 3 attacks per unit not 5 as far as i know, maybe they have 5 attacks in OK ?
Base 3 attaks +1 for additional hand weapon +1 for frenzy = 5 attaks each when in base contact (3 supporting). Hopefully you weren't shortchanging yourself!
wtf? i didnt have any additional hand weapon. gotta read the book...
On spawns:
maybe it's luck but the spawns tend to roll at least 7-10ish
On chosen:
They didn't get to cc(movement and got trapped in building)
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also hellcannons are great.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/14 20:56:34
Overview of the WoC army book.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/388667.page#3171854 Ralin Givens is the chaos to my warriors. Ra Ra Ra go team awesome I mean chaos Tzack Vahr Zhen's unholy followers.
all hail Howie Mandel deal or no deal it dosnt matter tzeentch wins
Khorne flakes part of a good breakfast when you plan to kill maim and burn all!!!
Do you have enough Priests do you?
2011/12/16 15:48:26
Subject: Re:My army list how it looks now.(old name 1.5K WOC vs O&G)
I have read the armybook a bit last afternoon and i have come with a new armylist from the dark chamber i call 'kitchen'.
Here it is:
H: Exalted Hero - MoK, BSB, armor of morrslieb, biting blade 125
H: Chaos Sorcerer lvl2 MoT 140 (no gifts added, need to read a bit more lol)
C: 18 Warriors MoKFC shields 50 pts magic banner 340
C:40 Marauders MoKFCGW shields 290
C:5 Warhounds 30
C:5 Warhounds 30
S: 10 Chosen MoKFC halberds shields 280 Glaive of Putrefaction ? Wailing Banner ?
S: 5 Knights Mok musician 230 +1 movement banner?
S: 6 Ogres MoK chaos armour musician 280
R: Chaos Warshrine MoK 160
Total 1905 Pts
I have 95 pts left, are the 2 spawns an idea or some upgrades on the knights/chosen/ogres an idea?
So for a start i think this is a better list than the first list ive made myself and with some tips of Boss, Cowpow and other people am being better at making list now, what do you think?
Feedback highly needed for i want to play a game or 2 next week so if someone has cons or pros i'd like to hear! thnx!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/16 15:50:27
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
My thoughts: + Would like a real ward on the BSB (4+!), plus either a shield, or drop the blade for a halberd + Sorcerer would be nice with third eye + dispel scroll + probably some kind of defense, since he is your general and you have no unit for him to stand in that doesn't involve him getting punched in the face. E.shield, c.shield, collar of khorne, talisman of protection, golden eye (and standing outside of a unit - risky!) are all options + Warriors should go halberds + shields, these are your butchers. Banner is likely flaming. EDIT Maybe not halberds, you have a lot of S5+ in the list as is. 3+ armor I think is worth keeping, even without parry. + Shields on the marauders are mostly pointless, drop 'em for 40 points + I still think 10 chosen is a bad idea, just so damn tiny. If you must run so few (cutting for 5 more is going to hurt), just slap the favor on the champ and consider +1M banner to get them places faster. Don't invest the huge points in the terror banner unless you also buy more bodies + Keep the knights with khorne + musician + No ahw on the ogres? Make it happen! + Marked shrine, props to that
What I got. Expect a tweaked version to hit in a moment ...
... and here it is, though I had to cut deeper than I wanted (partially because I think your points were quite off in several cases!)
The sorcerer is more intended for defense than offense, though Tizz has enough good spells that you should get 1 off a turn. He's also geared to survive a bit longer, with a 3/5+ save (3/1+ vs fire), as he is your general. The BSB I had to downgrade to a 3/5+ (drop first hit) as well, to make points, but there's your biting blade back in there! Much of the rest is as I wishlisted above, though I wasn't able to fit in ahw on the ogres, and I de-marked the 'shrine because it honestly doesn't do much for it for the 30 point pricetag. Anyway, that's more or less my shot at the list.
- Salvage
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/16 16:30:41
Thnx Boss for the quick reply, i forgot the ogre's ahw and the marauder shield should be light armour, made a mistake
What do you mean with 'just slap the favour on the champ' ?
Yeah i know, i've made my chosen of the chosen helms from gw and halberds from gw and a warriors box, its 50 euro's(like 65$) just cuz i hate the metal models. so another 5-10 would bite my wallet and especially with the holidays! thnx for the tips, i'll run through the book another time this evening!
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
Wolf_Ov_The_Void wrote:What do you mean with 'just slap the favour on the champ' ?
Chosen champions want to take the favor of the gods whenever possible, as it allows them to modify their Eye rolls by +/-1. IMO more important than having the Terror banner in there (and much more important than giving him a magic weapon).
I kind of like the concept of 10-12 chosen with +1M and halberds/shields. Brutally expensive (30 points a model w/ 10!) but they can probably cause a real mess as a counter-charger, or if you get lucky and nab 6-6 you've got one mean speedbump.
Thnx for the tip and i haven't used them because they were trapped in one game and didn't come in combat in the other due time limit so the game had to be ended ;< i'm dying to use them and see what bloodbath they create
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
Just a heads up khorne occasionally makes the first date a little rough.
I remember my horde of mok ahw razor standard guys hitting a block of un buffed HE spearmen and only ended up causing 9 wounds out of the 61 attacks.
So just incase they don't work first time try em again.
As boss said favor is pretty awesome, terror is just the icing.
Overview of the WoC army book.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/388667.page#3171854 Ralin Givens is the chaos to my warriors. Ra Ra Ra go team awesome I mean chaos Tzack Vahr Zhen's unholy followers.
all hail Howie Mandel deal or no deal it dosnt matter tzeentch wins
Khorne flakes part of a good breakfast when you plan to kill maim and burn all!!!
Do you have enough Priests do you?
2011/12/20 13:40:33
Subject: My army list how it looks now.(old name 1.5K WOC vs O&G)
I suggest putting hte flaming banner in the halberd unit. It has a better chance to wound the things that have regen.
You can also put them in a tower and watch them murder everyone that comes in its pretty great
No double tali of endurance yo thats not legit!!!!!
Also marauders with gw? since the points say they have them but the list says they dont. (you are paying for the gw but you dont have it marked down).
The chosen unit is a bit small may as well get another unit of marauders Or more warriors since when there are so few they tend to die and not do much in return.
Overview of the WoC army book.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/388667.page#3171854 Ralin Givens is the chaos to my warriors. Ra Ra Ra go team awesome I mean chaos Tzack Vahr Zhen's unholy followers.
all hail Howie Mandel deal or no deal it dosnt matter tzeentch wins
Khorne flakes part of a good breakfast when you plan to kill maim and burn all!!!
Do you have enough Priests do you?
2012/04/04 07:55:09
Subject: My army list how it looks now.(old name 1.5K WOC vs O&G)
cowpow16 wrote:I suggest putting hte flaming banner in the halberd unit. It has a better chance to wound the things that have regen.
You can also put them in a tower and watch them murder everyone that comes in its pretty great
No double tali of endurance yo thats not legit!!!!!
Also marauders with gw? since the points say they have them but the list says they dont. (you are paying for the gw but you dont have it marked down).
The chosen unit is a bit small may as well get another unit of marauders Or more warriors since when there are so few they tend to die and not do much in return.
Flaming banner in Halbadier Warriors? got it!
No double tali??? ow my bad i'm still a noob thnx for the heads up!
Indeed i forgot to put that in the list,they have GW
Yeah i know but in the 4 games i've played the Chosen didn't see much action so i don't know yet... maybe this game they'll have a confrontation
Thnx a bunch man
Horst wrote:damnit, now I gotta go home and get a change of underpants.
So running through the list it looks like you undercosted some things or didn't pay for others. Along with some changes I'd like to make, I ended up at 2600+ points! Thankfully the first cut is simple: drop the chosen. At just 10 models they're basically a toy unit, and you've already spent your toy points on the ogres. (You could take the chosen instead of the ogres, they end up costing around the same amount. In fact, I kind of like taking the chosen instead of the big guys, but the big guys give you a different unit type and style, making for a more varied game. And variety is good.)
Here's my tweak of the list, with commentary to follow:
Chaos Lord - MoK, sword of swift slaying, charmed shield, dawnstone, juggernaut = 330 Exalted Hero - MoK, BSB, biting blade, talisman of endurance = 185 Chaos Sorcerer - MoT, level 2, spell familiar, talisman of protection = 170
18 Warriors - MoK, banner of eternal flame, full command, halberds, shields = 376 18 Warriors - MoK, full command, shields = 348 40 Marauders - MoK, full command, great weapons = 250 5 Warhounds = 30 5 Warhounds = 30
Solid jugger lord, but I've swapped his 1/5+ save over to a rerolled 1+ save. Statistically stronger against most opponents, and the talisman of endurance was needed for other models. The 5+ ward was mostly to help against artillery strikes that deny armor, but with the blasted standard on the knights he still gets it anyway - AND the knights get it as well (great against doom divers looking to vape them). Clearly killing blow will be sad times for the big guy, but hopefully Tactics + Luck will help him survive? Not like a 5+ is all that much insurance when it comes down to it
The wards on the heroes took some hits to find points, though part of the change is because I don't like the armor of morrslieb, with so many magical weapons and sniper spells looking to kill the BSB. 4/5+ keeps him decently cozy, and the sorcerer is in the same boat with a 4/5+ save as well. Biting blade and spell familiar are decent choices - having more magical weapons is good with VC, more spells means more magic phase.
With the core I swapped the flaming banner to the halberds as Cowpow suggests, and I guess that's it. Also made sure the shield warriors had proper command (guessing at least one character is going there?).
Knights first got a standard to carry a magic standard with (), then got the blasted for surviving incoming hellish fire (mostly for the jugger's benefit). Then I cut the chosen for variety's sake and fixed the points on the ogres. As noted, you could take the chosen instead (10 chosen w/ MoK, musician, halberds, shields = 240), netting 30 points to reinvest in your heroes ... but the ogres are generally more survivable and do something different. Also, faster, scarier, etc.
Annnnd then happy to see the spawn are still in
EDIT Crap, those ogres cost 280 points, don't they? Gonna need to cut 9 points somehow ... Stripping the marauders down to musician only would do it, and give 7 points for whatever (probably 5 point upgrade for a hero).
- Salvage
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/04 17:19:44
). Here's my shot at a list:
The ogres are also going to be nice counter-charge against anything, but could probably excel head-on vs anything that isn't going to net them. 20 S4 attaks + 4 S4 stomps is brutal against mostly naked T3/4 infantry!
Tzack Vahr Zhen's unholy followers.
Khorne flakes part of a good breakfast when you plan to kill maim and burn all!!!
Do you have enough Priests do you? 
