Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Went to Powerfist gaming club last night and got a game with Elliot and his Tau. I was going to take Imperial Guard and hopefully smash some Tau with the hammer of the Emperor, but due some fuel in the wrong car Elliot wasn't sure he can make it. Anyway, he arrived, which is cool, and I took D.E instead as I thought I was playing someone else. Last time I played Elliot was with my D.E so I did want to use something else, but Elliot said he didn't mind and he can learn how to spank some Dark Eldar.

Dark Eldar "Kabal of a Thousand Cuts" - 2,000 points


HQ

Baron Sathonyx

Elite

4 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 4 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon
4 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 4 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon
3 x Kabalite Trueborn w/ Venom - 3 x blasters - Venom w/ splinter cannon

Troops

5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon
5 x Kabalite Warriors w/ Venom - blaster - Venom w/ splinter cannon

Fast Attack

Beastmasters - 3 x beastmasters, 5 x khymerae & 4 x razorwing flocks
Beastmasters - 3 x beastmasters, 5 x khymerae & 4 x razorwing flocks

Heavy Support

Ravager - flickerfield
Ravager - flickerfield
Ravager - flickerfield


Tau - 2,000 points

HQ

Shas 'El - cyclonic ion blaster, missile pod, plasma rifle & multi tracker + gun drone
1 x Bodyguard - twin-linked missile pod, plasma rifle & multi tracker
Shas 'El - twin-linked fusion gun + gun drone
2 x Bodyguard - twin-linked fusion gun & burst cannon

Elite

5 x Stealth Suits - 5 x burst cannons
2 x Crisis Suits - twin-liked missile pods & plasma rifle + gun drone
3 x Crisis Suits - twin-liked missile pods & plasma rifle + gun drone

Troops

8 x Fire Warriors - markerlight
8 x Fire Warriors - markerlight
8 x Fire Warriors - markerlight

Fast Attack

Remora Drone
6 x Path Finders w/ Devilfish - Devilfish w/ disruptor pod
2 x Piranhas - fusion gun & targetting array

Heavy Support

2 x Broadside Suits - advanced stablisation system
Hammerhead - disruption pod
Hammerhead - disruption pod

Game: Annihilation + Dawn of War

Deployment

Ok, so I am playing the exact game type I played yesterday. I win the roll off thanks to Baron and I let Elliot go first. In case you didn't read the report from the day before, the reason I let him go first is so I can counter his deployment and also he loses a turn shooting.

Elliot deploys nothing and instead keeps everything in reserve.

I don't deploy nothing and all my forces will roll on turn 1.

* Tactical Notes

Well, Elliot has caught me off guard here by not deploying anything. I am hoping his reserve rolls don't go well and I can pick off his army piecemeal when they come in. My targets during the game will be anything with a railgun, Pathfinders and the Crisis suits.

Turn 1

No movement or shooting for Elliot, units will start arriving next turn. Remora Drone and fusion suit unit are deep striking.

I move my Dark Eldar are moving everything flat out so I can get a cover save next turn. I put my Dark Eldar in the centre of the board so I can move either way to intercept Elliot, plus the big ass fortress blocks LOS in the centre. I deploy the skimmers in a U shape and the Beastmasters move and run inside the formation.





* Tactical Notes

Well, that was a exciting turn! Lets rumble next turn then.

Turn 2

Elliot rolls for his reserves and everything arrives except for two Hammerheads, Piranhas and a unit of Fire Warriors. In the centre the fusion-suits deep strike and scatter towards the right of the fortress while the Remora Drone lands on target. Left flank, Broadsides come in top corner then along the board the Shas'El on foot, 3 Crisis suit unit, Fire Warriors and Devilfish. On the right came the Path Finders, 2 Crisis suit unit, Fire Warriors and Stealth Suits.

Shooting, Broadsides explode a Trueborn Venom - Trueborn are ok and pass pinning. Everything else is out of range so runs.

In assault some suits do jumpy jumpy, not all of them though.

Dark Eldar turn, after a quick risk assessment I move all my skimmers over to the right flank where there's little threat and the Beastmasters go to the left using the fortress for cover. The Trueborn on foot move out of the crater of their Venom and into a ruin which blocks LOS to them.

Shooting, I torrent the suits with lances from the Ravagers, but I don't do awesome hitting and the gun drone and a suit is gone - I finish the unit off with splinter cannons. Remaining splinter cannons blast the Path Finders and they are wiped out. Both Beastmaster units run, though I get low rolls so don't end up moving very far.

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 2 Tau: 1





* Tactical Notes

Not the turn I was looking for damage wise against the Tau, but it will do. I was hoping to take out the Crisis suits with the Ravagers and then gun down the Path Finders and Stealth Suits, maybe put some fire into the Fire Warriors as well. I guess taking out half those units isn't bad.

My plan is to keep the pressure on the right flank and blast the Stealth Suits and Fire Warriors to pieces. I will move the Beastmasters up and hopefully get into assault range, I'll split Baron as well.

Turn 3

Elliot rolls for reserves and both Hammerheads arrive, one comes in the centre the other right flank while the two Piranhas move 24" onto the centre. Just a unit of Fire Warriors left in reserve now.

Elliot moves the Stealth Suits down the right flank behind a ruin while the fusion-suit unit climbs the fortress walls. Broadsides move up while the 3 man Crisis suit unit climbs the ruins to get a better shot on the Beastmasters.

Shooting, one Hammerhead hits a Venom but flickerfield makes the save, the other Hammerhead misses. Stealth Suits blast a Trueborn Venom but only shake it. Fusion-suits explode a Venom carrying Warriors, all Warriors ok from the blast and pass pinning. Broadsides fire at a Venom but flickerfield makes the save, missile pods from the triple Crisis suits do better and wreck a Venom - squad passes pinning test. Shas'El and Crisis suit fire at the Beastmasters, but only the missile pods are in range and the units saves thanks to stealth from Baron.

In assault the battlesuits jump about, the fusion unit takes two wounds and fails morale and falls back!

Dark Eldar turn, I move the shaken Trueborn Venom 12" and the Trueborn bail out, another Venom flanks around to engage the Stealth Suits. Ravagers and other Venoms reposition while the unit out of the wrecked Venom back field move towards cover while the unit by the fortress move out the crater of their wrecked Venom into the fortress. Baron splits from the Beastmasters while the Beastmasters move up to assault the Devilfish and the other Beastmasters get bogged down over the fortress.

Shooting, splinter cannons blast the Fire Warriors and they are dead. Blasters open up on the Hammerhead in the centre and it is wrecked. Trueborn fire at the other Hammerhead and it is shaken. Venom and squad inside fire at the Stealth Suit, two left who pass morale. Ravagers blast the battlesuits falling back and instagib them all, that's two kill points from that unit.

In assault the Beastmasters charge the Devilfish and cause shaken and weapon destroyed. Baron charges the triple Crisis suit unit, causes a single wound and takes none, the Crisis suits fail morale and are destroyed by Baron via sweeping advance - go, Baron!

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 7 Tau: 3





* Tactical Notes

I think I've managed to cause some serious damage to Tau this turn. If it wasn't for the Stealth Suits I would now own the right flank, ok the Hammerhead is still there, but it's not shooting. Beastmasters haven't done much damage and I didn't want them to assault the Devilfish, but that assault move has catapulted them forward which now allows me to assault anything on that right flank. Baron has some nice some work and earned me a kill point.

Next turn I will finish off the Stealth Suits while the Hammerhead gets pounded by the Ravagers. The Remora Drone and Piranhas I will fire blasters at. Baron will charge the Shas'El while one Beastmaster unit engages the Broadsides and the other Beastmasters engage the Fire Warriors.

Turn 4

Elliot calls for reserves and the last Fire Warrior unit arrives, they march behind the other unit which is by a ruin on right and centre part of the board.

Movement, Broadsides come foward while Shas'El moves away. Devilfish tank shocks the Beastmasters, but they pass morale and they let it through. Stealth Suits move to engaged the exposed Trueborn. Remora Drone moves 6" towards the D.E lines while the Piranhas moves flat out over the fortress and land where I originally moved my D.E onto the board. Hammerhead moves into terrain and is immobilised.

Shooting, Broadsides and Shas'El blast Baron, but he survives, Fire Warriors bring him down though. Remora Drone scores weapon destroyed on a Trueborn Venom. Stealth Suits blast the Trueborn and one remains and passes morale.

In assault Shas'El moves away while the Stealth Suits get brave and assault the last Trueborn, it pays off and they get a kill point.

My fourth turn, I move the Beastmasters which attacked the Devilfish towards the Broadsides while the other Beastmasters move over the fortress ready to multi assault the Fire Warriors. Ravagers and Venoms reposition to deal with the Shas'El and Bodyguard and also the Piranhas. The Trueborn hiding away from turn 2 move up through terrain to get LOS on the oncoming Devilfish.

Shooting, Stealth Suits get blasted by the Venom and squad inside close by, they are dead. Hammerhead gets hit by blasters and after several weapon destroyed and immobilised results it is wrecked. One Piranha is taken down by a Ravager. The Shas'El gets fired at by splinter cannons and the gun drone and Bodyguard are dead - Shas'El passes morale. Trueborn fire at the Devilfish and stop it from shooting again and take off a drone. Blasters explode the Remora Drone.

In assault Beastmasters charge the Broadsides and rip them to pieces with rending attacks. The other unit of Beastmasters multi assaults both Fire Warrior units, one is totally destroyed and the other killed via sweeping advance.

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 14 Tau: 5





* Tactical Notes

I can confidently say this game is in the bag after Tau take another beating, this turn I've gained a whooping 7 kill points. I can say that Elliot this game has got 4 more kill points than our last game and hasn't been tabled yet, last game was turn 4 before all Tau was dead. I guess now it's just time to mop up.

Turn 5

Shas'El moves away from the Beastmasters, but he really has no where to run. Single Piranha moves flat out towards the fortress while the Devilfish moves 12" towards my table edge and past the Trueborn in the ruin.

Shooting, Shas-El blasts some beasts, not sure on damage, that's it.

Dark Eldar turn, everything repositions to gun down the Shas'El, Piranha and Devilfish. Shooting the Devilfish explodes thanks to lances and blasters from double Ravagers and Trueborn. Shas'El is gunned down by splinter cannon fire while the Piranha is taken out in assault by the Beastmasters.

Kill points - Dark Eldar: 17 Tau: 5

Summary

Well, I guess Elliot did better this game than previously - he got 5 kill points instead of 1 previously and didn't get tabled until turn 5, was turn 4 in our last game. So he's getting there and starting to kill some Dark Eldar.

While I cannot say a lot about the Tau list (as I do not play Tau) I do think some of Elliot's tactics let him down. It would have been better to keep his force together when it arrived and put in the centre of the board. This means his force wouldn't have been spread out and easy to pick off, but also he could use the fortress to block LOS and when I sweep around or over to shoot him he would have easily been in range. I also think he wasted the Piranhas as all they did all game with move flat out, they didn't fire once at all.

Why did he go all reserve on Dawn of War? Ugh.

No idea. It did throw me off a bit, but I would have reserved the railguns and missile pods. Come to think about it even the Fire Warriors would have been useful for damaging Venoms.

He figured it would save him from being shot to pieces at the start of turn 2. I've seen Mercer run this tactic before, it's smart, but reserving your army in this case would seriously get in someone's head It robbed Mercer of a turn of easy shooting against Tau, just the same way he robbed the Tau of a turn of shooting against him. It can be risky, especially since reserve rolling could go bad :(

Yeah, there's really no good reason for it that I can figure. Everything he has can hurt Mercer's army, even the Pathfinders still have carbines. In addition, with everything on Turn 1, mercer would have target saturation.

Instead, he moves on piecemeal, can't apply the totality of his firepower and mercer picks him apart piece by piece.

It is like a game I had with my SOB against terminator heavy GK in a tourney recently. He reserved everything except his Psyfles. Guess what was dead before his first reserves arrived? And guess what died every turn after deep striking and shooting. Yeah... Full reserves is a very dicey tactic that only works in some very specific circumstances.

OIF Knight wrote:He figured it would save him from being shot to pieces at the start of turn 2. I've seen Mercer run this tactic before, it's smart, but reserving your army in this case would seriously get in someone's head It robbed Mercer of a turn of easy shooting against Tau, just the same way he robbed the Tau of a turn of shooting against him. It can be risky, especially since reserve rolling could go bad :(

True about been shot to pieces, but I agree with Pretre, it's a risky mvoe doing this and your force can come in piecemeal. Ok his forces mostly come in altogether, but everything he has can hurt my skimmers. As I mentioned in my summary, he would have been better bringing in his force altogether turn 1 and dropping it in the centre and using the fortress to block LOS. I would then move about to shoot him and he can return fire easily. He would been better deploying nothing and then first turn coming on in the centre, but hold back, I wouldn't have been in range and he could castle up and wait for me to come and get him.

pretre wrote:Yeah, there's really no good reason for it that I can figure. Everything he has can hurt Mercer's army, even the Pathfinders still have carbines. In addition, with everything on Turn 1, mercer would have target saturation.

Instead, he moves on piecemeal, can't apply the totality of his firepower and mercer picks him apart piece by piece.

It is like a game I had with my SOB against terminator heavy GK in a tourney recently. He reserved everything except his Psyfles. Guess what was dead before his first reserves arrived? And guess what died every turn after deep striking and shooting. Yeah... Full reserves is a very dicey tactic that only works in some very specific circumstances.

I have to agree totally with you here. Having the entire army in reserves didn't help, especially when Hammerheads came on turn 3. When everything came on Elliot placed them wrong as well. He should have rolled everything on turn 1 and held it back. Looks like he was trying to use my trick against me with add reserves.

In my experience you need to tailor an army for full reserves. This means taking astropaths as IG, Tiggy as nilla marines, or a DOA army as BA. I did all of these back in the day and full reserves worked beautifully.

By no means are these choices in units a 100% garuntee for bringing in reserves when they are needed or avoiding peicemeal deployment, but if full reserve is what you want to do, you really need to custom design around it. Showing up with a broad, all comers list and fully reserving is dangerous.

Also, funny thing, mercer. I was in the 'showoff your whole army' thread checking out the pics. As soon as I saw the pics of your armies, I knew they were yours before I saw your name just from the way that your camera takes pictures.

OIF Knight wrote:In my experience you need to tailor an army for full reserves. This means taking astropaths as IG, Tiggy as nilla marines, or a DOA army as BA. I did all of these back in the day and full reserves worked beautifully.

By no means are these choices in units a 100% garuntee for bringing in reserves when they are needed or avoiding peicemeal deployment, but if full reserve is what you want to do, you really need to custom design around it. Showing up with a broad, all comers list and fully reserving is dangerous.

You definitely need to work your lists probably to do full reserves. I am not a Tau player, but I believe they cannot do this - I might be wrong.

pretre wrote:Also, funny thing, mercer. I was in the 'showoff your whole army' thread checking out the pics. As soon as I saw the pics of your armies, I knew they were yours before I saw your name just from the way that your camera takes pictures.

It's that blue mate

The only reserve manipulation that tau have is the Positional Relay. If the bearer of the wargear is on the board, it allows you to trickle your units on. It is central to the 'ninja' tau strategy. It also sucks.

Can you imagine him trying to hide his commander with relay from you on that board while he waits to bring everything in on turn 5? Yeaaahhh...

Thing is, he got almost all his reserve rolls. After a turn of Mercers shooting he would have lost those anyway. I see nothing wrong with this tactic. He lost the game because the Tau currently suck and the DE have a better book. Period. I am not saying you can't eek out a win with the current Tau codex but Mercer is an experienced player who spams out everything he runs so even a bad turn of dice doesn't screw him here. Also that crappy deployment scenario doesn't help, lets hope they do away with DoW in 6th... Here's a fun game not action for 2 turns lol.

Had this been capture and control or seize ground, I would have stopped reading after the deployment, that's how bad the Tau are.

Red Corsair wrote:Thing is, he got almost all his reserve rolls. After a turn of Mercers shooting he would have lost those anyway. I see nothing wrong with this tactic. He lost the game because the Tau currently suck and the DE have a better book. Period. I am not saying you can't eek out a win with the current Tau codex but Mercer is an experienced player who spams out everything he runs so even a bad turn of dice doesn't screw him here. Also that crappy deployment scenario doesn't help, lets hope they do away with DoW in 6th... Here's a fun game not action for 2 turns lol.

Had this been capture and control or seize ground, I would have stopped reading after the deployment, that's how bad the Tau are.

This is just full of 'win'.

Almost all is not all. Like mercer said, no hammerheads until turn 3, etc. If everything is in on Turn 1, everything shoots. He also has LOS blocking terrain to force mercer to come to him while he sets up for full rapid fire, heavy shooting on turn 2.

And this whole 'tau can't win' thing is BS. Take the tier whinging somewhere else. Yeah, mercer plays a hard list, but if they guy had deployed/moved smarter, he could have done a lot to that DE list. Every gun in his army can take down paper airplanes.

Lastly, aren't we done with the DOW whining yet? It is a good mission that mixes it up for armies and makes you make tactical choices in list building, deployment and play. Just because you can't put everything down and shoot from turn 1, doesn't mean it is a bad mission.

pretre wrote:The only reserve manipulation that tau have is the Positional Relay. If the bearer of the wargear is on the board, it allows you to trickle your units on. It is central to the 'ninja' tau strategy. It also sucks.

Can you imagine him trying to hide his commander with relay from you on that board while he waits to bring everything in on turn 5? Yeaaahhh...

Oh, right, I see

Red Corsair wrote:Thing is, he got almost all his reserve rolls. After a turn of Mercers shooting he would have lost those anyway. I see nothing wrong with this tactic. He lost the game because the Tau currently suck and the DE have a better book. Period. I am not saying you can't eek out a win with the current Tau codex but Mercer is an experienced player who spams out everything he runs so even a bad turn of dice doesn't screw him here. Also that crappy deployment scenario doesn't help, lets hope they do away with DoW in 6th... Here's a fun game not action for 2 turns lol.

Had this been capture and control or seize ground, I would have stopped reading after the deployment, that's how bad the Tau are.

You're right about the reserve rolls, he did well with them and I think that he got all his units on except three on turn 2. However this could have gone sour and he could have had three on first turn and everything else in reserve.

I don't think Tau are too bad in terms of playability, probably same as CSM, and D.E have a better book. I wouldn't say he lost the game because of the book. He lost the game partly because of his tactics, I mean look how many times he fired at me - hardly at all. Piranhas never fired, Hammerheads once, two Battlesuits units once, not a lot of shooting going on for a shooty army.

And yes, I spam everything, redundancy ftw


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:Thing is, he got almost all his reserve rolls. After a turn of Mercers shooting he would have lost those anyway. I see nothing wrong with this tactic. He lost the game because the Tau currently suck and the DE have a better book. Period. I am not saying you can't eek out a win with the current Tau codex but Mercer is an experienced player who spams out everything he runs so even a bad turn of dice doesn't screw him here. Also that crappy deployment scenario doesn't help, lets hope they do away with DoW in 6th... Here's a fun game not action for 2 turns lol.

Had this been capture and control or seize ground, I would have stopped reading after the deployment, that's how bad the Tau are.

This is just full of 'win'.

Almost all is not all. Like mercer said, no hammerheads until turn 3, etc. If everything is in on Turn 1, everything shoots. He also has LOS blocking terrain to force mercer to come to him while he sets up for full rapid fire, heavy shooting on turn 2.

And this whole 'tau can't win' thing is BS. Take the tier whinging somewhere else. Yeah, mercer plays a hard list, but if they guy had deployed/moved smarter, he could have done a lot to that DE list. Every gun in his army can take down paper airplanes.

Lastly, aren't we done with the DOW whining yet? It is a good mission that mixes it up for armies and makes you make tactical choices in list building, deployment and play. Just because you can't put everything down and shoot from turn 1, doesn't mean it is a bad mission.

Dude, I am going to have to totally agree with everything you've said.

Things coming in late i.e Hammerheads meant they got a single turn of shooting in (only one hit) before both got took out in some shape or form.

He should have setup centre deployment, the fortress would have helped him massively. When I flanked around or even if I flown over he would have got me and caused loads more damage.

And DoW is good, but it depends what list you're playing. If you're playing infantry with heavy weapons then DoW blows goats. If you have a mech army which is fast i.e Blood Angels and Dark Eldar then DoW isn't too bad.

pretre wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:Thing is, he got almost all his reserve rolls. After a turn of Mercers shooting he would have lost those anyway. I see nothing wrong with this tactic. He lost the game because the Tau currently suck and the DE have a better book. Period. I am not saying you can't eek out a win with the current Tau codex but Mercer is an experienced player who spams out everything he runs so even a bad turn of dice doesn't screw him here. Also that crappy deployment scenario doesn't help, lets hope they do away with DoW in 6th... Here's a fun game not action for 2 turns lol.

Had this been capture and control or seize ground, I would have stopped reading after the deployment, that's how bad the Tau are.

This is just full of 'win'.

Almost all is not all. Like mercer said, no hammerheads until turn 3, etc. If everything is in on Turn 1, everything shoots. He also has LOS blocking terrain to force mercer to come to him while he sets up for full rapid fire, heavy shooting on turn 2.

And this whole 'tau can't win' thing is BS. Take the tier whinging somewhere else. Yeah, mercer plays a hard list, but if they guy had deployed/moved smarter, he could have done a lot to that DE list. Every gun in his army can take down paper airplanes.

Lastly, aren't we done with the DOW whining yet? It is a good mission that mixes it up for armies and makes you make tactical choices in list building, deployment and play. Just because you can't put everything down and shoot from turn 1, doesn't mean it is a bad mission.

What is Tier Whinging? Pretre aren't you tired of being a rude simpleton. Your comments are always ignorant and over opinionated. Sorry if I don't agree with YOUR analysis. Fact: the tau are under powered, not whining, FACT.

It's awesome playing Monday morning quarter back when I guys strategy fails and then blaming it entirely on the tactic and not the tool or match up. I'll also appre3ciate it if you don't include myself in that proverbial 'we' you used, as I would never include myself in your company. Agree to disagree, your not the end all be all in post game analysis so either stay constructive or go back beneath your bridge.

Red Corsair wrote:What is Tier Whinging? Pretre aren't you tired of being a rude simpleton. Your comments are always ignorant and over opinionated. Sorry if I don't agree with YOUR analysis. Fact: the tau are under powered, not whining, FACT.

Watch your Rule 1 there, RC. Whinging is whining. Same thing. Just because you write something in capital letters doesn't make it true, FACT.

It's awesome playing Monday morning quarter back when I guys strategy fails and then blaming it entirely on the tactic and not the tool or match up.

I didn't blame it entirely on the tactic. I didn't say his tactics would have tabled mercer, I said ' he could have done a lot to that DE list.' Tau is a very shooty army that failed to shoot at mercer. If you don't think that that had something to do with his loss, you're missing a big part of the report.

pretre wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:What is Tier Whinging? Pretre aren't you tired of being a rude simpleton. Your comments are always ignorant and over opinionated. Sorry if I don't agree with YOUR analysis. Fact: the tau are under powered, not whining, FACT.

Watch your Rule 1 there, RC. Whinging is whining. Same thing. Just because you write something in capital letters doesn't make it true, FACT.

It's awesome playing Monday morning quarter back when I guys strategy fails and then blaming it entirely on the tactic and not the tool or match up.

I didn't blame it entirely on the tactic. I didn't say his tactics would have tabled mercer, I said ' he could have done a lot to that DE list.' Tau is a very shooty army that failed to shoot at mercer. If you don't think that that had something to do with his loss, you're missing a big part of the report.

I have no qualm debating strategy and tactics, but please refrain from derogatory comments and sniping. Like annoying comments as 'full of win.' Of all people you shouldn't be citing the rules as your one of dakkas number one trolls. Pardon me, I legitimately did not know what the heck tier whinging meant. Your original commentary of my post was frosted with sarcastic undertones, please keep your posts clean.

And you think he could have shot at an army that wasn't on the board, how? I read the report and if you think the slow moving tau would have done better to deploy your wrong. He would have been responding to the DE movement and shooting phase every turn. His slower list would have struggled to gain new firing lanes. I agree with you that the tau needed to out shoot him, my original comment of DoW deployment was underlining how he would not get that opportunity regardless of his own deployment. I disagree that the mission is balanced as certain armies can't respond to the deployment and night fighting.

Red Corsair wrote: I have no qualm debating strategy and tactics, but please refrain from derogatory comments and sniping. Like annoying comments as 'full of win.' Your original commentary of my post was frosted with sarcastic undertones, please keep your posts clean.

Sarcasm does not violate Rule 1. Calling me a troll and a rude simpleton does.

Of all people you shouldn't be citing the rules as your one of dakkas number one trolls.

Have we met before? I don't know you from a hole in the ground and you're making some pretty big assumptions about me. Why don't you keep it on topic and stop sniping at me?

And you think he could have shot at an army that wasn't on the board, how? I read the report and if you think the slow moving tau would have done better to deploy your wrong. He would have been responding to the DE movement and shooting phase every turn. His slower list would have struggled to gain new firing lanes. I agree with you that the tau needed to out shoot him, my original comment of DoW deployment was underlining how he would not get that opportunity regardless of his own deployment. I disagree that the mission is balanced as certain armies can't respond to the deployment and night fighting.

Okay, let's lay this out.
Turn 1:
Tau move on the board and position for turn 2 shooting, using center LOS blocker as cover.
DE move into position.
Turn 2:
Tau blast all the DE they can see and then scoot, continuing to use LOS blocker to their advantage and picking targets.
DE blast the living crud out of 1-2 units, removing them from the board.
Turn 3:
Rinse Repeat.

Instead of it being a one-way fire fight, the tau player could have used his firepower and the terrain to his advantage in order to actually do damage.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if you can't respond to the deployment and night fighting, you have constructed a poor list.

Every army has the ability to adapt to DoW. In fact, they have to since it is 1/3 of all missions in 3rd ed. If you aren't adapting for it, you should be prepared to lose 1/3 of all your games.

Red Corsair wrote:

And you think he could have shot at an army that wasn't on the board, how? I read the report and if you think the slow moving tau would have done better to deploy your wrong. He would have been responding to the DE movement and shooting phase every turn. His slower list would have struggled to gain new firing lanes. I agree with you that the tau needed to out shoot him, my original comment of DoW deployment was underlining how he would not get that opportunity regardless of his own deployment. I disagree that the mission is balanced as certain armies can't respond to the deployment and night fighting.

I think you're getting confused or I am misunderstanding you. My army came on turn 1, so Tau would have only lost first turn shooting, however the Tau deployment could have been better, which should have been in the centre and not spaced out. If Tau would have done this then he would have lost turn 1 shooting only (which he would have done anyway to range). Then when I moved around either flank by the fortress he could fire at me. At least this way he would have got more shooting in. Either way on his deployment he would have lost turn 1 shooting, on the board or not.

Kinda getting sick of seeing you win all the time Mercer. Kidding of course

What is a remora drone? I have never heard of that unit before lol But it was not just tactics that failed the guy here, it was a bad list as well. I could tell just from the list that he was prob gonna lose, and by the end of turn one that he was gonna lose badly. It's not b.c the tau are a bad army they have a lot of powerful guns that could do a lot of damage to mercer's army. But mercer played smart and knew what targets to take out, and the guys list was terrible for any edition.

His list is illegal. Crisis suits can't take 3 weapons. They are only allowed to take 2. And a twin linked one counts as two. So its 2 weapons, and a support system. He can't take TL missile pods, and a plasma rifle. Doesn't work like that. I think by doing so, he accidentally threw away a lot of points (the weapon systems tend to be more expensive than the support).

Woo go stealth suits killing a trueborn, thats what I like to see
they must know ''tau'kwondo'!!!

While it is normal to have a LOS-blocking terrain in the middle of the board, I felt this particular terrain (the DA fortress) gave DE an unfair advantage. I mean, it is just huge and smack-dab in the middle. No wonder the Tau player was forced to reserve his army. DE could almost safely get to the middle of the board without getting shot at and strike the following turn.

PraetorDave wrote:His list is illegal. Crisis suits can't take 3 weapons. They are only allowed to take 2. And a twin linked one counts as two. So its 2 weapons, and a support system. He can't take TL missile pods, and a plasma rifle. Doesn't work like that. I think by doing so, he accidentally threw away a lot of points (the weapon systems tend to be more expensive than the support).

No, it's perfectly legal. They can take 3 weapons, just not 3 of the same weapons. A common configuration is a deathrain suit with tl-missile pods and flamer. He is just subbing the flamer for plasma.

Grimnarsmate wrote:Woo go stealth suits killing a trueborn, thats what I like to see
they must know ''tau'kwondo'!!!

lol

I'm pretty sure that is the most I have seen a stealth suit do in any Tau match I have witnessed or read a report on. Most of the time I have seen them deep struck in to take out vehicles and miss then get blasted the next turn. I am surprised he did not try to deep strike them behind the DE vehicles.
And JY2 is right, the weapons load out he has is not illegal or that uncommon. The two Gun Drones is pretty silly however, I do not recall him being in range with those during the game?

mercer, have your buddy alter his list slightly for next time:

Railheads: MT, Dispod. Maybe Target Lock, allowing the BurstCannons to shoot one paper airplane and his RG can shoot another. The MT allows it more mobility, Moving&Shooting like a Fast Vehicle.

Broadsides:
Team Leader, a.s.s. BK x2 Shield Drones
his buddy, a.s.s.

All his Crisis Suits need to be reconfiged to 2 guns and MT. More fire power to possibly bring your games to a Draw.


Tau needs lotsa help and his subpar load-outs are handicapping him.

jy2 wrote:While it is normal to have a LOS-blocking terrain in the middle of the board, I felt this particular terrain (the DA fortress) gave DE an unfair advantage. I mean, it is just huge and smack-dab in the middle. No wonder the Tau player was forced to reserve his army. DE could almost safely get to the middle of the board without getting shot at and strike the following turn.

PraetorDave wrote:His list is illegal. Crisis suits can't take 3 weapons. They are only allowed to take 2. And a twin linked one counts as two. So its 2 weapons, and a support system. He can't take TL missile pods, and a plasma rifle. Doesn't work like that. I think by doing so, he accidentally threw away a lot of points (the weapon systems tend to be more expensive than the support).

No, it's perfectly legal. They can take 3 weapons, just not 3 of the same weapons. A common configuration is a deathrain suit with tl-missile pods and flamer. He is just subbing the flamer for plasma.

the fortress wouldn't give either force a advantage, it blocks los for both forces unless my dark eldar can see through walls . As I've said, if the tau deployed centre then no matter which way i flanked around the tau could have shot at me. but the way Elliott deployed lete pick which flank has the less risk and then attack that flank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brothererekose wrote:mercer, have your buddy alter his list slightly for next time:

Railheads: MT, Dispod. Maybe Target Lock, allowing the BurstCannons to shoot one paper airplane and his RG can shoot another. The MT allows it more mobility, Moving&Shooting like a Fast Vehicle.

Broadsides:
Team Leader, a.s.s. BK x2 Shield Drones
his buddy, a.s.s.

All his Crisis Suits need to be reconfiged to 2 guns and MT. More fire power to possibly bring your games to a Draw.


Tau needs lotsa help and his subpar load-outs are handicapping him.

i may have missed some wargear off, but I'll pass your suggestions on

mercer wrote:

jy2 wrote:While it is normal to have a LOS-blocking terrain in the middle of the board, I felt this particular terrain (the DA fortress) gave DE an unfair advantage. I mean, it is just huge and smack-dab in the middle. No wonder the Tau player was forced to reserve his army. DE could almost safely get to the middle of the board without getting shot at and strike the following turn.

PraetorDave wrote:His list is illegal. Crisis suits can't take 3 weapons. They are only allowed to take 2. And a twin linked one counts as two. So its 2 weapons, and a support system. He can't take TL missile pods, and a plasma rifle. Doesn't work like that. I think by doing so, he accidentally threw away a lot of points (the weapon systems tend to be more expensive than the support).

No, it's perfectly legal. They can take 3 weapons, just not 3 of the same weapons. A common configuration is a deathrain suit with tl-missile pods and flamer. He is just subbing the flamer for plasma.

the fortress wouldn't give either force a advantage, it blocks los for both forces unless my dark eldar can see through walls . As I've said, if the tau deployed centre then no matter which way i flanked around the tau could have shot at me. but the way Elliott deployed lete pick which flank has the less risk and then attack that flank.

No what he means is that since you deployed behind the fortress, he could not shoot you. And with your preponderance of fast skimmers, you could simply move up close behind the fortress, and bum rush him, with he having no way of do damage before hand.

PraetorDave wrote: No what he means is that since you deployed behind the fortress, he could not shoot you. And with your preponderance of fast skimmers, you could simply move up close behind the fortress, and bum rush him, with he having no way of do damage before hand.

Yup. Basically, the fortress gave you a guaranteed alpha strike and the Tau player could not do anything about it except to reserve his army to minimize the damage. You basically had positional advantage as you can make it to the center of the board basically unmolested. Then next turn, since you were already in the middle of the board with those fast skimmers, you could have hit him hard no matter where he was deployed.

Ah getcha. i guess i have baron to thank for that as he won me the roll off and i went second.