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2011/12/04 14:58:24
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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You came to this thread expecting to read some fan fic about my 'uber cool lady spesh mahreens wiv boobies and stuff'.
You shall be disappointed.
I just have a few questions really. We all know the Geneseed only works on males, probably a stabilising agent on a codon of the Y chromosome or something along those lines, blah blah blah,
But what I really want to know is, who realised it only worked on men? How did they realise it? Are there any examples of people (Chapters, Primarchs, the Emperor even) trying to create female marines? What happens if someone does try to implant the organs into a woman?
Cheers in advance guys.
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2011/12/04 16:26:13
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
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=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DQ:80-S---G+MB-I+PW40K00#-D++A+/fWD-R++T(M)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======
"I just scoop up the whole unit in my hands and dump them in a pile roughly 6" forward. I don't even care."
- Lord_Blackfang on moving large units
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2011/12/04 16:31:02
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Fireknife Shas'el
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The emperor told them.
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2011/12/04 16:32:11
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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It'd be like giving rabbit feed to a dog.
Or trying to milk a fish.
Just wrong and weird.
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Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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2011/12/04 16:43:14
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Sir Samuel Buca wrote:But what I really want to know is, who realised it only worked on men?
The Emperor.
How did they realise it?
Because he designed it.
Are there any examples of people (Chapters, Primarchs, the Emperor even) trying to create female marines?
No.
What happens if someone does try to implant the organs into a woman?
They get shot for being a filthy heretic.
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis |
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2011/12/04 16:45:00
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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They couldnt risk marines reproducing themselves alone or they would take over.
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2011/12/04 16:49:42
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
They're his "Angels of Death". Look at traditional depictions of warrior-angels in modern religions. They're males. Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Azrael--all males. There are female angels depicted as well sure, but they're usually more of the scholarly or protector persuasion.
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2011/12/04 17:08:57
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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Space Marines are the male ideal. Strong, powerful, confident to the point of literally being incapable of doubt, virile.
The female ideal, such as it is, is none of these things.
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Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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2011/12/04 17:09:32
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Dakka Veteran
Somewhere in the Galactic East
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Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
They're his "Angels of Death". Look at traditional depictions of warrior-angels in modern religions. They're males. Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Azrael--all males. There are female angels depicted as well sure, but they're usually more of the scholarly or protector persuasion.
'Traditional Depictions' are rather skewed because it reflects the masculine-dominant societies within a certain culture that I'm going to hint at ambiguously so I don't get into certain trouble. On the other hand, Joan of Arc would like to have a word with you, sir.
Socio-theories aside, the Emperor was sexist, obviously.
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 182nd Ebon Hawks - 2000 Points
"We descend upon them like lightning from a cloudless sky."
 Va'Krata Sept - 2500 Points
"The barbarian Gue'la deserve nothing but a swift death in a shallow grave." |
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2011/12/04 17:16:52
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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KplKeegan wrote:Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
They're his "Angels of Death". Look at traditional depictions of warrior-angels in modern religions. They're males. Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Azrael--all males. There are female angels depicted as well sure, but they're usually more of the scholarly or protector persuasion.
'Traditional Depictions' are rather skewed because it reflects the masculine-dominant societies within a certain culture that I'm going to hint at ambiguously so I don't get into certain trouble. On the other hand, Joan of Arc would like to have a word with you, sir.
Socio-theories aside, the Emperor was sexist, obviously.
Joan of Arc, for all her charisma, would have been physically weaker than ~90% of men.
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Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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2011/12/04 17:22:20
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Manhunter
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I always thought it was because space marines are knights in space. And that 40k was based on medieval times, ie IOM is the Holy Roman Empire, so put those two together. Viola, all space marines are male.
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Proud to be Obliviously Blue since 2011!
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2011/12/04 17:23:43
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Dakka Veteran
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KplKeegan wrote:
Socio-theories aside, the Emperor was sexist, obviously.
Any evidence of your 'theory'? cause the Imperial army has a regiment called Geno-Five-TWo-Chiliad who fought for the Emperor during the Unification Wars were lead by women. Also the Sister of Silence who worked for the Emperor and they're an all female order of BLANKS. Automatically Appended Next Post: ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I always thought it was because space marines are knights in space. And that 40k was based on medieval times, ie IOM is the Holy Roman Empire, so put those two together. Viola, all space marines are male.
THIS. Basically GW made it this way and they have no real interest in changing it inorder to accommodate some people's weird interest
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/04 17:25:13
Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2011/12/04 17:26:43
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
What's the source(s)/inspiration for this Kan?
------
I guess if there were female marines, Horus would have never dared commit heresy...
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Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
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2011/12/04 17:30:01
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Joey wrote:KplKeegan wrote:Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
They're his "Angels of Death". Look at traditional depictions of warrior-angels in modern religions. They're males. Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Azrael--all males. There are female angels depicted as well sure, but they're usually more of the scholarly or protector persuasion.
'Traditional Depictions' are rather skewed because it reflects the masculine-dominant societies within a certain culture that I'm going to hint at ambiguously so I don't get into certain trouble. On the other hand, Joan of Arc would like to have a word with you, sir.
Socio-theories aside, the Emperor was sexist, obviously.
Joan of Arc, for all her charisma, would have been physically weaker than ~90% of men.
90%? You know old, young, sick, infirm and just plain weak is a little more then just 10% of men.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/04 17:33:11
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2011/12/04 17:32:21
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Ruthless Interrogator
Confused
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nomotog wrote:
90%? You know old, young, sick, infirm and just plain weak is a little more then just 10% of men. That's all beside the point though. You just don't like the idea of including women in your macho view of SMs.
Men are designed to be the fighters and leaders in society, it's what they've evolved to do. It's not sexist to say the average male is stronger than the average female.
Off-topic: I just friended myself, and got an e-mail saying that I've added me as a friend. Weird.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/04 17:34:00
Coolyo294 wrote: You are a strange, strange little manchicken.
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2011/12/04 17:33:53
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
What's the source(s)/inspiration for this Kan?
There is no written source, outside of the fact that we don't have them. It's a reasonable conclusion, and if anyone wants to dispute it they can go right ahead.
It won't make them right though.
Plus, supposedly GW considers "Adeptus Astartes" in its bastardized Latin-Gothic to be "Brotherhood of the Stars".
I guess if there were female marines, Horus would have never dared commit heresy...
Why? Because he'd be getting a little action on the side?
Please, let's make something not silly okay?
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2011/12/04 17:34:36
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Dakka Veteran
Somewhere in the Galactic East
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Corporal_Reznov wrote:KplKeegan wrote:
Socio-theories aside, the Emperor was sexist, obviously.
Any evidence of your 'theory'? cause the Imperial army has a regiment called Geno-Five-TWo-Chiliad who fought for the Emperor during the Unification Wars were lead by women. Also the Sister of Silence who worked for the Emperor and they're an all female order of BLANKS.
The Primarchs, which the Emperor himself created, were all his sons. The Legions that followed the Primarchs were all male. The very Space Marines that came from the Emperor's genes were purposely made masculine.
Since Space Marines were seen as Knights in our history, during that time period was very masculine-dominant and sexist. It's very easy to put two and two together.
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182nd Ebon Hawks - 2000 Points
"We descend upon them like lightning from a cloudless sky."
Va'Krata Sept - 2500 Points
"The barbarian Gue'la deserve nothing but a swift death in a shallow grave." |
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2011/12/04 17:37:11
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Dakka Veteran
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KplKeegan wrote:
The Primarchs, which the Emperor himself created, were all his sons. The Legions that followed the Primarchs were all male. The very Space Marines that came from the Emperor's genes were purposely made masculine.
Since Space Marines were seen as Knights in our history, during that time period was very masculine-dominant and sexist. It's very easy to put two and two together.
So no evidence but just assumption on your part? Also nice ignoring of evidence(no its fail!). GW were the ones who set the policy that Space Marines are based on the Knights of Europe and all that, its why all SM's are male.
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Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2011/12/04 17:38:01
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Kanluwen wrote:Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
What's the source(s)/inspiration for this Kan?
There is no written source, outside of the fact that we don't have them. It's a reasonable conclusion, and if anyone wants to dispute it they can go right ahead.
It won't make them right though.
Yeah, I figured as much.
I agree it's a reasonable conclusion, but I wouldn't say it's exactly "been covered", rather than it's your interpretation.
I guess if there were female marines, Horus would have never dared commit heresy...
Why? Because he'd be getting a little action on the side?
Please, let's make something not silly okay?
I actually meant wrath of a woman's scorn and all that, but hey...
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Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
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2011/12/04 17:39:16
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Stalwart Space Marine
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TrollPie wrote:
Men are designed to be the fighters and leaders in society, it's what they've evolved to do. It's not sexist to say the average male is stronger than the average female.
Off-topic: I just friended myself, and got an e-mail saying that I've added me as a friend. Weird.
Harriet Harmsmen would like to strenuously disagree as would her wife Jack, who made it on to an all women short-list, now you're just being sexist 
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2011/12/04 18:03:01
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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Philld77 wrote:
Harriet Harmsmen would like to strenuously disagree as would her wife Jack, who made it on to an all women short-list, now you're just being sexist
Harriet Harman (I assume you're referring to) is useless, as are most women in politics, to say nothing of the men.
Kanluwen wrote:Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
What's the source(s)/inspiration for this Kan?
There is no written source, outside of the fact that we don't have them. It's a reasonable conclusion, and if anyone wants to dispute it they can go right ahead.
It won't make them right though.
Plus, supposedly GW considers "Adeptus Astartes" in its bastardized Latin-Gothic to be "Brotherhood of the Stars".
I guess if there were female marines, Horus would have never dared commit heresy...
Why? Because he'd be getting a little action on the side?
Please, let's make something not silly okay?
The emperor can have whatever poon-tang he wants. Why would he want some super-muscly woman? Ew.
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Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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2011/12/04 18:27:05
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Just Dave wrote:Kanluwen wrote:somecallmeJack wrote:I dont believe it's ever been covered. Good idea for some nasty abomination based fiction though.
No, it's been covered. Not very well, but it's been covered and the persistent nature of people to do things against the grain means it's just ignored.
Simply put: The Emperor didn't want female Astartes. He didn't want "Battle People", he wanted "Battle Brothers".
What's the source(s)/inspiration for this Kan?
There is no written source, outside of the fact that we don't have them. It's a reasonable conclusion, and if anyone wants to dispute it they can go right ahead.
It won't make them right though.
Yeah, I figured as much.
I agree it's a reasonable conclusion, but I wouldn't say it's exactly "been covered", rather than it's your interpretation.
When Games Workshop considers the translation of "Adeptus Astartes" to mean " Brotherhood/Masters/Lords of the Stars"...I'd say that's covered.
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2011/12/04 18:32:43
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I always thought it was because space marines are knights in space. And that 40k was based on medieval times, ie IOM is the Holy Roman Empire, so put those two together. Viola, all space marines are male.
This. It was a decision made for artistic and literary reasons, so obviously so that the studio have never been obliged to provide an in-universe explanation.
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 Red Hunters: 2000 points  Grey Knights: 2000 points  Black Legion: 600 points and counting |
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2011/12/04 18:33:40
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
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The gene seed wouldn't properly work in a females body, as it was designed with males in mind (hormones, etc).
Could they make a female gene seed? Probably, will they? No.
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2011/12/04 18:35:40
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Oh no. Not again....
One answer for the OP
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No. It never happened. Just be content with the Sisters of Silence which are known to absolutely own Astrates
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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2011/12/04 19:02:04
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Kelne
Lost
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Blobpie wrote:The gene seed wouldn't properly work in a females body, as it was designed with males in mind (hormones, etc).
Could they make a female gene seed? Probably, will they? No.
Even if they could make a female gene seed (I doubt that. Although that is going on others knowledge not my own.), then they couldn't. The Primarchs are dead, and male. Automatically Appended Next Post: Just Dave wrote:
I guess if there were female marines, Horus would have never dared commit heresy...
Why? Because he'd be getting a little action on the side?
Please, let's make something not silly okay?
I actually meant wrath of a woman's scorn and all that, but hey...
Haha. Only a married man would say that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/04 19:06:51
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2011/12/05 00:05:06
Subject: Re:Female Space Marines.
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Dakka Veteran
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Gene seed implantation requires extremely high high high levels of genetic compatability to work.. that means even with men the gene seed can be rejected or (worse) have fatal or otherwise detrimental effects (mutation.. tht can happen with the space wolves as I recall.) That would suggest implanting a woman with gene seed is going to lead the same route - eg its not designed for use in women at all.
now that doesn't mean you couldn't have female space marines if there were gene seed designed for it (or just use some alternate method.. genetic engineering in 40K is basically magic) but it was never done to our knowledge and if it did it doesnt exist in the Imperium (as far as canon goes) to modern times. You can have genetically engineered or bionically enhanced (or both) female killer types - I mean look at Assassins, but you won't get it through the Astartes process.
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2011/12/05 00:11:33
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Manhunter
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Did this just devolve into a "are female SM possible" thread? Because that is not what the OP had in mind.
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Lokas wrote:...Enemy of my enemy is kind of a dick, so let's kill him too.
"Without judgement there is no obstacle to action." ~ Kommander Oleg Strakhov
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2011/12/05 02:35:49
Subject: Re:Female Space Marines.
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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I believe the fluff on this is that, at some point in time, this was attempted, but the implantees were wracked by horrible mutations and died a horrible death. not all were that lucky either, some wern't killed, but were so horribly mutated that they had to be put down.
Implanting geneseed into a female either kills her, or turns her into a horrible mutated mass of flesh that is in incredible pain.
Short story: its impossable because it does horrible horrible things to female bodies. We don't know exactly how or why, but it just does.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2011/12/05 03:09:04
Subject: Female Space Marines.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Basically, space marines are genetically stale-- they are constantly inbreeding with no possibility of EVER having outside genetic material put in (because having different genetic material causes the implantee to die). Eventually, the defects that are effecting some chapters will begin to effect all of them, and there's little they can do about this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/05 03:09:40
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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