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BrainDeleted wrote:Oh Lord in Heaven, you like imagining that?

That could give me nightmares.

I'm unsure how that's such a terrible crime? Unless your implying something perverted which is just pathetic

But no, I see nothing wrong with female marines aside from the fluff having said it's impossible, and lets face it, the fluff changes all the time

Murdock129 wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:Oh Lord in Heaven, you like imagining that?

That could give me nightmares.

I'm unsure how that's such a terrible crime? Unless your implying something perverted which is just pathetic

But no, I see nothing wrong with female marines aside from the fluff having said it's impossible, and lets face it, the fluff changes all the time

Thats one of the issues with Female marines. You need a reason.

having Female marines because of some perverted idea is obviously wrong and having Female marines because you think its unfair and you want it just for equal opprotunity is just silly. Its just not how it works.


Is there a good reason to have female marines? none that I can think of.

Murdock129 wrote:
I'm unsure how that's such a terrible crime? Unless your implying something perverted which is just pathetic

But no, I see nothing wrong with female marines aside from the fluff having said it's impossible, and lets face it, the fluff changes all the time

Ever read Fabius Bile's fluff? It was a joke about how terrible his creations would be if he used women, gene seed, and chaos as the ingredients...

Murdock129 wrote:lets face it, the fluff changes all the time

It does, and 40K has some of the worst fact checking and continuity, but this bit of fluff about no female Space Marines dates back to 1988. And they reprint that article by Rick Priestley more or less verbatim even today.

My marines would be female.

Not physically of course, thats impossible.

But mentally, they would all be feminine. Like Sis Katherine's Dread



courtesy: http://www.dragonrealm.com/exlibrismortis/ExLibrisnew_HKDreadnoughtIndex.html

Grey Templar wrote:Geneseed can't inbreed. it simply self-replicates.

Genetically speaking, cloning is essentially the ultimate form of inbreeding.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Murdock129 wrote:lets face it, the fluff changes all the time

It does, and 40K has some of the worst fact checking and continuity, but this bit of fluff about no female Space Marines dates back to 1988. And they reprint that article by Rick Priestley more or less verbatim even today.

Like Veteran says, it's one of the only consistent pieces of fluff in the whole of the 40k universe.

The colour of Orks blood has changed more times than this

Grey Templar wrote:
Is there a good reason to have female marines? none that I can think of.

The Decree Passive laid down by the reformist Ecclesiarch Sebastian Thor held that in the wake of the Age of Apostasy of the 36th Millennium, the Ecclesiarchy cannot maintain any men under arms. This was supposed to limit the power of the Ecclesiarchy. However, the Ministorum was able to circumvent this decree by using all-female military force.

Okay guys, most of you didn't get he question, I'm not asking; "Hai guyz, can I start a all gurl mahreen army pl0x?" But it's okay, just watching the arguements unfold were amusing.
Thanks for what you all said though regarding why there aren't any, that was all I wanted to know.
So, Bile's next step in experimentation? He is technically still part of the Emperor's Children after all..

nomotog wrote:90%? You know old, young, sick, infirm and just plain weak is a little more then just 10% of men.

Who go to war.....


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Melissia wrote:Genetically speaking, cloning is essentially the ultimate form of inbreeding.

Except with a smaller chance of bad stuff happening. But of course most Imperial worlds have toxic pollution...

Grey Templar wrote:

daveNYC wrote:When you say Space Marine Codex, do you mean the Codex Astartes? Because the SoB have their own (crappy) WD codex.

And they don't have the organs. Technically, anyone can use power armor, or Terminator armor, just with the Space Marines' black carapace, they have much greater control and dexterity over it. Not to mention that they're stronger, faster, taller, more fun at parties, etc.

You are either confused or completly ignorent of the SoB fluff.


Like the link SilverMK2 showed you, Sisters are just normal humans wearing power armor.

Power Armor can be worn by normal humans, Power armor thats made for normal humans any way.


Space Marine PA has special interfaces that connect to the Marine's neural system, allowing him to feel as if the PA is simply part of his body. a normal human in PA is simply wearing a suit of armor that has servos to power its movements. Marine PA is also more technologically sophisticated then other types of PA, it has inbuilt medical systems that can inject medicine or painkillers if the marine needs some additional help, its fully proofed against the Vaccum of space(some normal PA is too), it has waste recyclers, and finally it has advanced targeting and HUD systems built in to its structure.

Yeah, isn't that what I said?

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Geneseed can't inbreed. it simply self-replicates.

Genetically speaking, cloning is essentially the ultimate form of inbreeding.

That's one of the most ridiculous logical fallacies I've heard in the past two months.

Cloning is creating a perfect replication of the source material, with no sexual or asexual reproduction involved. To compare it to "inbreeding" is ridiculous. It's like saying a couple of a single ethnicity is inbreeding.

daveNYC wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

daveNYC wrote:When you say Space Marine Codex, do you mean the Codex Astartes? Because the SoB have their own (crappy) WD codex.

And they don't have the organs. Technically, anyone can use power armor, or Terminator armor, just with the Space Marines' black carapace, they have much greater control and dexterity over it. Not to mention that they're stronger, faster, taller, more fun at parties, etc.

You are either confused or completly ignorent of the SoB fluff.


Like the link SilverMK2 showed you, Sisters are just normal humans wearing power armor.

Power Armor can be worn by normal humans, Power armor thats made for normal humans any way.


Space Marine PA has special interfaces that connect to the Marine's neural system, allowing him to feel as if the PA is simply part of his body. a normal human in PA is simply wearing a suit of armor that has servos to power its movements. Marine PA is also more technologically sophisticated then other types of PA, it has inbuilt medical systems that can inject medicine or painkillers if the marine needs some additional help, its fully proofed against the Vaccum of space(some normal PA is too), it has waste recyclers, and finally it has advanced targeting and HUD systems built in to its structure.

Yeah, isn't that what I said?

Sorry, I appear to have quoted the wrong post


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Kanluwen wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Geneseed can't inbreed. it simply self-replicates.

Genetically speaking, cloning is essentially the ultimate form of inbreeding.

That's one of the most ridiculous logical fallacies I've heard in the past two months.

Cloning is creating a perfect replication of the source material, with no sexual or asexual reproduction involved. To compare it to "inbreeding" is ridiculous. It's like saying a couple of a single ethnicity is inbreeding.

And 2 same ethnicity people would actually be much closer to inbreeding then cloning would be.

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Geneseed can't inbreed. it simply self-replicates.

Genetically speaking, cloning is essentially the ultimate form of inbreeding.

You're wrrrrrong.

A female Space Marine is like a male Sister of Battle. It violates the fluff badly, regardless of how well you pull it off.

Sir Samuel Buca wrote: ...who realised it only worked on men? How did they realise it?...

Trail... and Error...

Even if you could apply the SM creation process to women, they would be selected at puberty and pumped full of testosterone. You would end up with the same thing, only they would be sitting down to pee.


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Secondary sex characteristics are determined entirely by hormones, and you can dramatically change many things by altering them. Since puberty involves the release of huge amounts of your gender's primary hormones, making female marines would likely replace the massive amounts of estrogen with massive amounts of testosterone (which would be necessary considering the amount of bulking up required). They would not develop female secondary characteristics (breasts, wider hips, ect) but instead would pick up the male ones. There would be no change in primary sexual characteristics (since those are fixed in the womb), but to all other outward appearances they would look male. You could do the opposite, give a pubescent male a bunch of female hormones and he would develop female secondarys. Barring cases of gender dismorphia, I have no idea of why you would want to do either of these (since they would require continuous maintenence), but that is the endocrinology of this in a nutshell.

And then you will be like "why not just take the male candidates and stop forcing female bodies to do something thats against their programming which is causing the females to have a lower success rate?"


Female marines would simply be a pointless waste of energy and one more potential problem with the process, which already has a low success rate.

Grey Templar wrote:And then you will be like "why not just take the male candidates and stop forcing female bodies to do something thats against their programming which is causing the females to have a lower success rate?"


Female marines would simply be a pointless waste of energy and one more potential problem with the process, which already has a low success rate.

This is precisely the point. Even if you could, it would add unnecessary complexity to a process that is already beyond the understanding of those who do it. Implants and geneseed are rare and precious and already have a pretty bad failure rate, why add another point of failure?


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Female marines would be about as feminine as Chuck Norris, and you would have had to have gone to a significant amount of extra effort to add estrogen/progesterone blockers and extra androgens to the process, when men naturally make very little estrogen/progesterone and lots of testosterone.

I still point to Doc Thunder's female marine fluff as some of the best female-marine justification I have read.

I think the only thing I would possibly add to it would be some kind of rapid growth signal that the body would produce once the invasion was underway to build the women up to almost the same kind of size as regular marines.

Theyll never exist so really doesnt matter lol

Kanluwen wrote:
Please, let's make something not silly okay?

Too late. You ARE in the 40k background section, after all.

If you want something NOT silly, then go play a serious historical wargame.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I always thought it was because space marines are knights in space. And that 40k was based on medieval times, ie IOM is the Holy Roman Empire, so put those two together. Viola, all space marines are male.

But we need females so the obvious is space nuns. Except that doesn't really sound that exciting so how about space nuns with guns? Getting better but how about space nuns in fetish BDSM outfits with guns and an attitude problem? Bingo!

The IoM is absolutely nothing like the Holy Roman Empire, just for the record.

/derail

I prefer the sisters of battle why would you ever want 7-8 foot amazon woman who never washes the blood out of their hair?

At the end of the day it comes down to this simple truth:

Men are built for war and women are not. Goes all the way back to hunter/gatherer vs homemaker/child bearer. I'm not being sexist when I say this either. Just look at the way men are built physically as compared to women. Much less effort goes into making a man big and strong vs a woman.

There is zero point to having female space marines. And personally I cannot stand SoB nonsense either. Women should not be expected to fight wars.

Uh... women make better infantrymen than men do, on a purely biological level. Their muscle mass is in their legs, allowing them to walk farther, longer, under load, they have higher endurance, and their bodies retain water better, leading to fewer heat casualties.

Care to try again?

IronSnake wrote:There is zero point to having female space marines. And personally I cannot stand SoB nonsense either. Women should not be expected to fight wars.

Oh look. There he is!

Every single time the FM shows up, we learn of another sexist...

Chowderhead wrote:

IronSnake wrote:There is zero point to having female space marines. And personally I cannot stand SoB nonsense either. Women should not be expected to fight wars.

Oh look. There he is!

Every single time the FM shows up, we learn of another sexist...

In setting like 40k where it was fight or die I'd think you get whomever is able. Not like they have the luxury to turn away help. I mean Commissars kill at least a couple thousand a day not counting wartime casualties. lol

Draigo wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

IronSnake wrote:There is zero point to having female space marines. And personally I cannot stand SoB nonsense either. Women should not be expected to fight wars.

Oh look. There he is!

Every single time the FM shows up, we learn of another sexist...

In setting like 40k where it was fight or die I'd think you get whomever is able. Not like they have the luxury to turn away help. I mean Commissars kill at least a couple thousand a day not counting wartime casualties. lol

I would have put it higher than a few thousand a day, but yeah.

The IOM is desperate. They need soldiers. And women make good soldiers. So, they have women soldiers.