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Just somehing I thought up. Bit complicated, not too OTT, and sort of coll.


Javelins.

Javelins are normal close combat weapons. Once per game, they may be fired as if they wre a ranged weapon with a Range of 6"X Str of the wielder. their str= Str of the wielder. Ap is based on the chart below.

Str........................AP
1...........................-
2...........................-
3...........................6
4...........................5
5...........................4
6...........................3
7...........................2
8+.........................1


In addition, Javelins thrown have the rending special rule and give their wielder FC, as they hurl the spear prior to an assault. However, because they chuick their weapon at the foe, they can never gain the +1A for 2 CCW one the turn they charge.

Wait... a Chainsword has no effect, but a Javelin Rends and grants Furious Charge?
Also, pts cost.

Deadshot wrote:
Javelins are normal close combat weapons.

That's the only thing you said that makes sense.

Yeah, I'm thinking Javelins are normal Close Combat weapons (maybe a +1 Strength) that you can use to give you either furious charge or counter attack once per game to represent throwing them, but then you lose the +1 strength and can't use any other close combat weapons that phase.

I would go wiiith:

Weapon: Javelin
A Javelin is a two-handed Close Combat Weapon that confers +1 Strength to the wielder in Close Combat and always allows them to attack regardless of where they are in the combat.
It can also be used as a Shooting Attack with the following Profile:
Range-*, Str-*, AP-9*, Type- Assault 1, One Shot, Recover.
Special Rules:
The range of the javelin is equal to the Strength of the wielder x3".
The Strength of the Javelin is equal to the Strength of the wielder +1.
The AP is equal to 9 minus the Strength of the Wielder.

Recover:
If the wielder makes it into Close Combat with the unit it fired at that turn it can recover the weapon and use it again as normal (both as a CCW and as a Shooting Attack).
If the wielder fails to enter Close Combat with the unit it fired on, it loses that Javelin and may no longer benefit from its effects.

So your average marine would have S5 in Close Combat and can attack even from the back, and the weapon would fire at:
Range-12", Str-5, AP-5, Type- Assault 1, One Shot, Recover.

If he makes it into combat with what he shot, he retrieves his javelin and can attack with it, it can also be used to throw again later.

^ i'm guessing if they miss they have no chance to recover the javlelin

hmmm, I'm not sure, you could argue that if he misses he could pick it up on his way there, or on the other it's simply irretrievable.

Maybe do it on a 4+ its recovered when you miss?

But then that's always the risk of oneshot weaponry isn't it. Make it a lowish cost upgrade, maybe 5 points?

Ovion wrote:
A Javelin is a two-handed Close Combat Weapon that confers +1 Strength to the wielder in Close Combat and always allows them to attack regardless of where they are in the combat.

Glaive Encarmines are longer and vastly heavier (not to mention with a power field) than any sharpened stick a human would be using. They provide neither of those rules.

Ovion wrote:
The AP is equal to 9 minus the Strength of the Wielder.

Nothing in the game works like that. It's generally a bad idea to invent a rule that is outside the established paradigm.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Ovion wrote:
A Javelin is a two-handed Close Combat Weapon that confers +1 Strength to the wielder in Close Combat and always allows them to attack regardless of where they are in the combat.

Glaive Encarmines are longer and vastly heavier (not to mention with a power field) than any sharpened stick a human would be using. They provide neither of those rules.

Ovion wrote:
The AP is equal to 9 minus the Strength of the Wielder.

Nothing in the game works like that. It's generally a bad idea to invent a rule that is outside the established paradigm.

Heavier means less wieldy, my idea also drew from fantasy spears and that they could conceivably be throwing it in the melee.

The variable ap i put is just a simpler version of the ops chart, and a similar system is standard in lots of rpgs.

But that aside - it's proposed rules, just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't and I think it's a fairly accurate representation of thrown AP in the limitations of the 40k system.

I had the idea of the retrieval to begin with, but discarded due to the thought of OPness.

I couldn't find a suitable formula for working out AP, so that is why I had the table. I like the 9-Str idea. Just add in to a minimum of 1, so Str 9 or 10 doesn't become -. I would also add in the rule that if 9-Str=7+, then it counts as AP -.

In termas of recovery, what happens if you don't charge the unit that turn? Is it lost?



I don't like the extra reach or Str though. I agree with Drakness in that respect.

If people agree with it I'll add in the retrieval rules and change the table of AP to 9-Str.

The +1 str thing used to be a relatively common bonus of twohanded weapons, from using both arms power (plus less attacks) but maybe that's a bit too old hat xD.

The thrown is basically lifted from every generic RPG anyway.

I like the idea and it's the sort of thing I could see Kroot, maybe Ethereals, Orks, maybe Catachan and possibly DE Wyches using javelins, aswell as it possibly being a cheap upgrade option for several characters.

Thrown weapon AP should be -. Simple, easy, no need for complicated formulas and very realistic to the game.

So you are telling me if a Daemon Prince chucks the beastly awesoem Spear of Khorne's ultimate Rage at you, it will bounce of the little tin hat that there Nob is wearing?




Possible upgrades to weapons

Ethereal Honour Blade
The Spear of Vulkan
Certain Necron weapons such as Warscythes
Nemsis Force Halberds
Option for Kroot
Option for Wyches/Bl;oodbirdes, paired with a shardnet
Option for some nids in the form of Spine Banks. Obvious example would be the Hive Guard, or maybe not.
Orks would havbe it, maybe even a weapon for a new unit, Feral Ork hordes.
SM characters could get a PW version, as could other HQs such as Succubi, or Archons.




Eldar have Singing Speras, so I don't think they should get them. And Tau are, again, more Shooty, so numbers should be kept down.

If he tosses a regular javelin, yeah, totally possible.

If he tosses some jacked up magic/force/power weapon, that's different.

But while he's using a normal javelin i consider it the same as a normal close combat weapon (with a possible strength modifier for the purposes of rolling to wound) that he happens to be able to smack you with once while further away.

Javelins are much more powerful if thrown than if you atb someone with it. They have time to build up momentum and penetrating power as the move through the air, and a longer flight path and higher altitude would increase this further. QAnd to get more momentum and higher altitude, you need to have thrown it with greater Str. Thu the strongeryou are, the more damging the spear will be when it strikes.

Jefffar wrote:If he tosses a regular javelin, yeah, totally possible.

If he tosses some jacked up magic/force/power weapon, that's different.

But while he's using a normal javelin i consider it the same as a normal close combat weapon (with a possible strength modifier for the purposes of rolling to wound) that he happens to be able to smack you with once while further away.

Use the example of an actual javelin or an arrow.

In hand, a javelin or arrow stabbing a knight in armour would do bugger and all, especially the arrow.
Fired, both are able to penetrate the plate and cause damage.

Point 1:

A thrown or fired weapon does not gain momentum the further away it travels. Due to air friction the maximum velocity of the weapon occurs nearest the point of launch, not near the end of flight. This applies for anything thrown, fired from a bow or fired from a gun. The exception is rocket powered munitions which are still accelerating when they take of.

Point 2:

Arrows didn't automatically pierce plate armour. The most famous archer vs knight battles in which the knights lost, arrows weren't the primary killers of the well protected knights. Yes they wreaked havoc with lesser protected soldiers and with unprotected horses, but when it came down to it, the knights had to be dispatched in close combat with swords, axes, maces and daggers.

Javelins do have greater momentum than arrows, but again that is no guarantee that they would go through any form of armour.

The existing mechanics of an armour save, in which there is a chance that the weapon will get through (or around) the armour of the opponent are more than adequate enough to represent the chance of an un-augmented arrow or javelin getting through. There is no need to assign them an AP value better than -.

As strong as a Space Marine is, a javelin he hurls should not have the same chance to go through his opponent's armour than his bolter which fires armour piercing explosive mini-rockets.