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all I know that regulars are now trained to dig foxholes, fill sandbags, and everyone has a folded shovel. but here are some questions
1. for any modern infantryman (not counting specialist, nor those of engineer corps). how fast can he dig a functional foxhole?
2. how many empty sandbags does each infantryman carry? do they still need to call in engineer corps to do some more field fortifications? and does that enough to make a foxhole?
3. how deep can each foxhole be? Around Bastogne, it might be that deep enough for an occupant to not being crushed by tank thread. but in Nasiriya, a foxhole is not that deep, it's barely a crater



^ This is US Marines 'base', by the first days of Afghanistan campaign. i think that by now this spot is a firebase with HESCO fortress set.
4. can a foxhole also serve as an accommodation to an occupant? if a 1-man tent is no used in the frontlines anymore due to the proliferation of artillery and its payload (since 1st world war) but used in a forward base instead.

i need an answer for a 40k terrain piece. not about HOW TO make it, but about how should it looks like.

Lone Cat wrote:all I know that regulars are now trained to dig foxholes, fill sandbags, and everyone has a folded shovel. but here are some questions
1. for any modern infantryman (not counting specialist, nor those of engineer corps). how fast can he dig a functional foxhole?
2. how many empty sandbags does each infantryman carry? do they still need to call in engineer corps to do some more field fortifications? and does that enough to make a foxhole?
3. how deep can each foxhole be? Around Bastogne, it might be that deep enough for an occupant to not being crushed by tank thread. but in Nasiriya, a foxhole is not that deep, it's barely a crater
4. can a foxhole also serve as an accommodation to an occupant? if a 1-man tent is no used in the frontlines anymore due to the proliferation of artillery and its payload (since 1st world war) but used in a forward base instead.

In my experience:

1. Depends if you are under fire In all seriousness, if you are in a combat situation, I'm sure you'd dig PDQ! In 'normal' circumstances, say a couple of hours for a decent pit.

2. I have never carried empty sandbags in my life. If those things are needed, it's usually the SQMS (Quartermaster) who is responsible for sorting out those sorts of logistics. Infantry soldiers have enough to worry about without having to lug hessian sandbags around. In depth field forts usually get a nearby engineer squadron to dig out as they have more specialised digging equipment/machinery.

3. Depends on the ground obviously. Ideally, a decent foxhole that you are occupying for more than a few nights or whatever would be 6 foot deep with a sleeping area and revetted with corrugated iron or duckboards. Something like that takes time to build and would be constructed over a couple of days. Your basic foxhole is deep enough if it is providing cover from fire - it's doing it's job then.

4. Yes and as above, if you are occupying them for any length of time, you are taught to make them as comfortable as possible so that would include a dugout for sleeping in, cover from air and so on.

Lone Cat...give me a bit more clarity on how you want this mini FoB to look. Establish? Hasty? InProcess?

Edit
No one carrie sandbags now. Before back in the early 90's it was three empty bags

edit two
Well you got Esco Barriers but didn't mention "Jersey" Barriers

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/21-75/Ch2.htm
A foxhole starts out like a shallow grave and through continous improvement becomes a two man fighting position with a grenade sump,overhead cover, and camouflage.

shallow grave

Hasty position...its a Hasty Position...."shiver"

Lone Cat wrote:all I know that regulars are now trained to dig foxholes, fill sandbags, and everyone has a folded shovel. but here are some questions
1. for any modern infantryman (not counting specialist, nor those of engineer corps). how fast can he dig a functional foxhole?
2. how many empty sandbags does each infantryman carry? do they still need to call in engineer corps to do some more field fortifications? and does that enough to make a foxhole?
3. how deep can each foxhole be? Around Bastogne, it might be that deep enough for an occupant to not being crushed by tank thread. but in Nasiriya, a foxhole is not that deep, it's barely a crater

In Iraq, the first thing we did when we touched down was dig in. We were literally in the middle of the desert with nothing but the bergans on our back. There is no hard and fast answer to your question, because were all big boys, if your hole aint deep enough, that's your business!

1. Depends on fitness and training and most importantly the ground and your motivation! In the RM we do a three day "dig ex" where basically you get beasted for three days, sleep for pretty much none of it, and dig big feth off holes endlessly. I dug mine in Iraq over about 2-3 hours and it was about 5 foot deep. I got a good fething sweat on digging the bastard as well!

2. I carried 6 stuffed inside my rollmat, we just had a pallet and people could grab as many as they wanted. I never bothered filling any of them as I was content in my hobbit hole. Sandbags were used plenty in Afghanistan though, because they tend to get used alot when you have buildings that are above ground.

3. Deep as you can be arsed to dig it! I didn't like the idea of it being super deep incase it caved in! I also wanted to be able to pull my arse out of it easy enough, so I went for about 5 foot deep, maybe about 4 foot wide and 6 foot long. So I could lay in it and be about 4 feet under cover, but I could also stand and have a nice shooting firing position with my rifle. I didnt see the point in going much deeper, if its a direct hit your fethed anyway!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have to say, those pictures.. Them lads were either lazy or stupid.

Would YOU want to lay in a hole 2 feet deep if mortars were landing on your position!?

If my hole was as shallow as that during my dig ex, my sergeant would have laughed in my face and made me crawl through the nettles with my trousers round my ankles.

^
1. hey. what is PDQ? is it a crater seen in Nasiriya pic?
2. is there any record of artillery crater being a cover, and is there any records that a bombardment was done several meters in front of an enemy. the intention is mainly to provide a quick cover for advancing infantry formations. the risk is an enemy can have that cover too! (and you need a precise coordinations between artillery unit and infantry formations) honestly is howitzer shell crater being that big?
3. therefore making sandbag barrier/revetments requires engineer corps and quartermaster to get it done?

Jihadin wrote:Lone Cat...give me a bit more clarity on how you want this mini FoB to look. Establish? Hasty? InProcess?

Edit
No one carrie sandbags now. Before back in the early 90's it was three empty bags

edit two
Well you got Esco Barriers but didn't mention "Jersey" Barriers

4. these mini FoB should looks like a formation has just enter the fray. the look should be either 'in process' or 'hasty'
5. i've did try to lift a Jersey barrier but it's demn too heavy for one man, not sure if a well-trained infantryman can still be able to lift one? Jersey is mainly for urban warfare.

Lazy, Stupid...both?
They may not be fighting positions either, I generally dig a shallow hole to sleep in even when I don't have to (I'm also not an infantryman by trade) if it happens to be convienant that I can roll over and my sleeping hole is a hasty well...inverse benefits.
Or what my black hat told me. Being a paratrooper means you have three jobs in two orders:
Jump,fight, dig
Or
Jump,dig, fight

Just a guess but PDQ=Pretty Damn Quick...

Lone Cat wrote:^
1. hey. what is PDQ? is it a crater seen in Nasiriya pic?
2. is there any record of artillery crater being a cover, and is there any records that a bombardment was done several meters in front of an enemy. the intention is mainly to provide a quick cover for advancing infantry formations. the risk is an enemy can have that cover too! (and you need a precise coordinations between artillery unit and infantry formations) honestly is howitzer shell crater being that big?
3. therefore making sandbag barrier/revetments requires engineer corps and quartermaster to get it done?
4. these mini FoB should looks like a formation has just enter the fray. the look should be either 'in process' or 'hasty'
5. i've did try to lift a Jersey barrier but it's demn too heavy for one man, not sure if a well-trained infantryman can still be able to lift one? Jersey is mainly for urban warfare.

1. PDQ = Pretty Damn Quick, as mentioned.
2. It was quite a common tactic in WW1 - fire artillery for an hour or so prior to the assault in the hope that the craters would create cover for advance. Not sure it worked much in practice; all you end with is a boggy mess that the soldiers struggle to get through and close with the enemy quickly. But yes, shell craters can be pretty big.
3. The more gucci revetted holes are usually dug by the engineers because they get trained how to do it properly.

Just to clarify, I was an ex-engineer and spent a fair bit of my engineer training in digging holes of various types.

Look at a WWI trench and compare to a FoB setting. Combine them both perhaps.

I see a little Airborne Mafia beginning to form

filbert wrote:

Lone Cat wrote:^
2. is there any record of artillery crater being a cover, and is there any records that a bombardment was done several meters in front of an enemy. the intention is mainly to provide a quick cover for advancing infantry formations. the risk is an enemy can have that cover too! (and you need a precise coordinations between artillery unit and infantry formations) honestly is howitzer shell crater being that big?

2. It was quite a common tactic in WW1 - fire artillery for an hour or so prior to the assault in the hope that the craters would create cover for advance. Not sure it worked much in practice; all you end with is a boggy mess that the soldiers struggle to get through and close with the enemy quickly. But yes, shell craters can be pretty big.

I imagine that was due to the weather not cooperating.

if its the middle of summer the idea of artillery craters making cover is probably pretty sound, but if its snowing or raining and the ground is mush then you just end up with mud surrounding a bunch of very round ponds that are filled with more mud.

the WW1 commanders were probably like "The artillery craters from our field training back home were pretty dang big, lets use this so our men can advance with some cover" forgetting that it had rained for the last few weeks off and on and the ground was pretty mushy. Just like the French at the battle of Agincourt, the field was freshly ploughed and it had rained.

What is this the IG?

xxmatt85 wrote:What is this the IG?

No, the IG would send the infantry in first and then use the light from the Lasguns to pinpoint for the Artillery barrage

filbert wrote: Just to clarify, I was an ex-engineer and spent a fair bit of my engineer training in digging holes of various types.

Whilst your opponent was busy making piles.. the natural enemy of the hole...

3 M-16s wide, 3 m-16's across and 1 m-16 deep, Then add two 2x m-16 wings and one ammo hole in the back.

Eventually though...its seems I have a Redleg....Fister? Anyway. The position is dug to shoulder height of the tallest man/woman in the platoon. Anyone short gets a firing step. The firing slits...will be "V" with the wide mouth facing outward. That way a soldier/marine/trooper can fire from aenilade. Think locking field of fire.