Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi,

I love the Doomsday ark, I simply think its an awesome unit and an awesome model. But, when I start talking competitive gaming, I wonder if it's worth it's points. On one hand, it's S9 AP1 and will make short work of a Draigo/paladinspam army -if the guy you're playing doesn't have the foresight to smashing it to bits right away- but it is also open topped which means that losing that gun is very likey. Once the doomsday cannon is gone the unit is basically useless. It seems like this weapon could take the place of a AT gun because it's AP1 but at the same time is a pie plate which is not the greatest for taking out tanks and since all gauss weapons glance on 6's, we don't really need the AT. So what role does this vehicle fill?

It seems that with it's limited mobility, short life span, and points cost; this weapon has no place in the army. When you think about the monolith, for another 25 points has an anti space marine weapon and the portal, it seems the Ark is really replaceable. The only two things I can think of, are using it as a long range weapon -since we only have like two of those- or using it to kill paladins. Necrons do not lack for volume of fire, which is another answer to the paladin problem.

For the points we could have: 11 scarabs, 3 spiders, almost two annihilation barges, or a bunch of destruction cryptecs

So what is the consensus on this thing? Do competitive lists need this thing? Can Necrons rely on their other tools to deal with paladins? Or do the doomsday ark bring something else to the table that I'm not seeing?

I wouldnt play less than two or probably three much like Vindicators. One is a target three is a threat. I think they cost way to much though for what they bring. Could be proven wrong though.

I think a single ark can work depending on the rest of the list. I bring a lot of priority targets to the table along with pulses. We play at 1850 here most often and my list is ...

+++1850+++
Zahndrekh 185

Overlord, Phaeron, Staff of Light 110

Royal Court 280
2 Crytptek, Eldritch Lance
1 Cryptek, Eldritch Lance/Solar Pulse
1 Cryptek, Aeon Stave/Chronometron
Ghost Ark

5 Deathmarks, Cryptek w/ Abyssal Staff 125
5 Deathmarks, Cryptek w/ Abyssal Staff 125

7 Warriors, Cryptek w/ Eldritch Lance/Solar Pulse, Ghost Ark 261
12 Warriors, Cryptek w/ Seismic Crucible, Tremor Stave 196 (Zahndrekh/Overlord)
7 Warriors 91

1 Heavy Destroyer 60
1 Heavy Destroyer 60

Annihilation Barge 90
Annihilation Barge 90
Doomsday Ark 175
++++++++++

A barge with tank hunter is a menace. Side swiping destroyers are a menace. The royal court ark is a menace. Deathmarks moving into shooting range are deadly. So the doomsday sitting at the back near an objective guarded by warriors is not necessarily the primary target. There are five AV13 vehicles to deal with. When the doomsday hits it almost makes it points back with the first result.

Now this list came about slowly and had to be tested pretty extensively. Unfortunately I cannot use the DS for the Deathmarks but I can get a 2+ AP1 blast from the staffs. I just run forward turn one and then start shooting - pulse or cover/terrain are your friend.

The Doomsday Ark is are ONLY effective long range AT. I'm sure going to use it. And before starting on about how few troops there are ... with Arks, RP and a Res Orb they are really hard to take down. Throwing all that in front of your opponent takes the heat off the D. Ark. Sure a Stalker would be nice too - and at 2000 I use one with guass and drop a warror - but it is not a must have for D. Arks.

Felix, A few things.
The Abyssal staff is a Template, not a blast.
Are single Squads of Heavy Destroyers really doing anything? It seems like they are going to take a single plasma/lace/other AP 1-3 hit, and be done, with no RP.

What's the point of Zahn in this list? I'm not criticizing that, I'm just genuinely curious. I've started to come around on his uses, but nothing in this list is really striking me as a need for him. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you are using him in this list.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the other long range weapon that Necrons have?

Heavy gauss cannons are 48in effective. Eldrich lances are 42in effective foot slogged, or 48in effective in an ark.

I'd personally take almost any other HS unit beyond a Doomsday Ark. It can be horrendously powerful, especially for taking out clumps of terminators or other tough and well armoured units, but it relies too much on chance. I have a terrible habit of scattering like crazy with blast weapons. Much rather take an Anni Barge and a few Spyders.

I just really wish the thing was ordinance in stationary mode. Ugh, I want to like the thing, but I can't see taking less than two to make them worth it......and they you have to build your list around them.

Take a pirate themed list and give em your broadsides and it's worth it for the lulz.

Haven't had the opportunity to try one out yet, but they look like they're both expensive and situational. You can twin link the blasts by pairing them with stalkers; if you're willing to drop 650 on those four models, then throw in a bag of spyders to keep them operational with repair checks, you'll have around 1000 points in an 1850 list for HQs, Troops, and the ubiquitous 10 scarab swarm.

Imotekh doesn't work with them, so you'll probably want 2 solar pulses in there to maximize your potential for using the arks, which means 2 overlords, which means a max of 700 free points left, less the 10 scarabs, thats 550 to spend on troops and elites.

Eh, could be fun.

Nebulas1 wrote:Take a pirate themed list and give em your broadsides and it's worth it for the lulz.

I plan on proxying in a pirate list with my next friendly game. Ghost Arks broadsiding IG gunline for the lulz.

Why Zahndrekh? Just giving a Barge tank hunter under pulse is huge. He also denies your opponents special abilities. He can make any weapon squad better ... eg., your royal court. He can give a unit stealth if needed. He is so flexible. I love him.
Yes staff is a cover denying S8 AP1 template that wounds on 2+. Hmmm. Not too shabby in my list. The destroyers just annoy the heck out of my opponents. With pulse up they easily get side shots on anything and also can be given tank hunter if warranted. I am very happy we can use singles much like a typhoon for SM.
Doomsday arks can be erratic. That's why I only take one and two barges. But boy have they done damage some games.
I want two overlords usually. in larger games. The Phaeron is great, the extra pulse, a few extra crypteks. Nice.

I really can't see their usefulness. They're largely immobile making it easier for your opponent to hide from them , they suffer from one gun syndrome (on an open topped vehicle), 1 large blast for the points cost is wildly inefficient, and they're situationally useful at best.

I think 2 Annihilation barges for 5 points more is a far better bargain.

This pretty much consolidates my position on them. The doomsday ark was the first new model I bought cause it's awesome. In friendly games I'm sure it's a really fun thing to use but when I got to get serious with my list building, I can't find the points for this thing. In my current list I dropped the thing for six crypteks of destruction. Six S8 AP2 42" (on the move) guns will roughly do the job of the D-Cannon, except it's more effective against tanks.

Nungunz wrote:I just really wish the thing was ordinance in stationary mode.

Why? The Doomsday Ark would actually be worse if it's giant gun was Ordnance since it would prevent it from firing it's other weapons in the same turn.

You must be misguided as to what Ordnance does.

I can tell I'm in the minority here, but I've actually had good luck with the Doomsday Arks.

I usually take Two, and I've found I really don't ever have to move them, just rotate.

I'm sure a lot of it depends on your local Terrain, but I've found they always have something to shoot. The AV 13 and Living metal also makes them quite difficult to stop from shooting.

For those that are worried about scattering, I may have been lucky so far, but mine haven't really scattered that often. I brought two Stalkers with Heavy Gauss cannons for the express purpose of twin linking those blasts, and found I really never needed to. They worked fine on their own.

Also, the Doomsday Ark does have two flayer arrays, so if you lose the DD cannon, at least you have that. It's not much, but I think it's much better off than a Vindicator in that situation.

I disagree that you have to build a list around them as well. They are a lot of points, but not to the point where you need to build the entire list around them like a 700 point Seer council, or other Death star.

Doomsday Arks also don't work well at all, with Imotekh. I think that's another big reason why they aren't taken. They work very well with two standard pulses though.

I think they are superior to Vindicators, and preform something that the Necron list is Missing- Long range firepower. I've enjoyed them so far, and in some of my lists they have a place. Are they Perfect? Far from it, but they still have a use.

I agree that the D-Cannon is not a bad weapon. By no means is it bad. But, in, say, an 1850 point game. Can we afford a D-Cannon? Or are there better/cheaper alternatives? That is really what I'm curious about. If the tank was not open-topped I think I would be all for it, or maybe is just the last four times I used it were unlucky and have soured my opinion.

How many weapons do you have that shoot over 24" ?
a good player with a semi-mobile army can really hamper your ability to do much with only 24" range if you don't have the mobility to match the short range (which necrons have to pay for)
Doomsday arc is like psyrifle dreads, they fill a gap in the codex.

I think if you have 2 annihalation barges you should be well off. with 6 shots if they are stationary with a 24" range isnt bad. They fact that the destruction cannon arcs, is twin linked is a pretty nice feature. I played agains space wolves and took care of some of their terminators and units. It annihalates against IG chimera's

Imokteh is a nice character, especially with the lightnight. I played agianst an IG army with 5 chimera's and my lightning took care of immobalizing, destroying weapons and blowing up some of them all around turn 3. We were also playing long ways on a board so I had some distance to do some damage.

How many weapons do you have that shoot over 24" ?
a good player with a semi-mobile army can really hamper your ability to do much with only 24" range if you don't have the mobility to match the short range (which necrons have to pay for)
Doomsday arc is like psyrifle dreads, they fill a gap in the codex.

Well they don't really fill that gap. Psyriflemen provide some long ranged AT otherwise lacking in the dex, for little cost; this allows you to hurt anything trying to kite you. How does a Doomsday Ark do this, blasts make poor vehicles killers (outside of manticores) and crons have little difficulty dealing with infantry. Plus the thing is expensive as hell. It's also alot harder to hide from 24" (30" with movement, biased as I play mech) than you'd think, especially with a couple of pulses.

I don't see what role it fills and why it's superior to other HS options tbh.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Nungunz wrote:I just really wish the thing was ordinance in stationary mode.

Why? The Doomsday Ark would actually be worse if it's giant gun was Ordnance since it would prevent it from firing it's other weapons in the same turn.

You mean the dinky broadside guns that means if you're using them either:

A) You aren't pointing the main gun at the enemy.
B) The enemy has gotten through your lines and is on your flank so stuff has gone horribly wrong anyway and you want to be on the move.

Ordinance would give it that extra d6 and choose the highest against vehicles. It make them much, much more reliable at damaging heavy armor.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Nungunz wrote:I just really wish the thing was ordinance in stationary mode.

Why? The Doomsday Ark would actually be worse if it's giant gun was Ordnance since it would prevent it from firing it's other weapons in the same turn.

You must be misguided as to what Ordnance does.

24'' Gauss Weapons. RUN! S4 AP 5!

Seriously, the other "weapons" are useless.

Sigvatr wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Nungunz wrote:I just really wish the thing was ordinance in stationary mode.

Why? The Doomsday Ark would actually be worse if it's giant gun was Ordnance since it would prevent it from firing it's other weapons in the same turn.

You must be misguided as to what Ordnance does.

24'' Gauss Weapons. RUN! S4 AP 5!

Seriously, the other "weapons" are useless.

There's that term again. I need to by all my interweb friends a dictionary. I don't think that term means what you think it means .

How have y'all been playing the firing ark on the flux arks? If you draw it out 45 degrees from the side of the vehicle you could likely get one side if not both sides pointing at SOMETHING, and then you get to roll pop marked bones at that SOMETHING and it might do SOMETHING. And as Sasori pointed out, if nothing else, they give the vehicle something to do if the Doomsday Cannon gets blown off.

something != useless

Just FYI

Yes the arrays arent "useless" but they are "useless" in the argument that the stationary Doomsday Gun should be ordnance (having the mobile version still be non ordnance would satisfy those who want the arrays). I'd rather get a better chance at blowing up a land raider from across the board than fire the main gun and fire smaller guns at half range

72" 9-1 Large Blast is pretty nice; but stationary, on an open topped vehicle? Any outflanker can wreck it with impunity, and if it moves, it loses the ability you just paid for, which means you have to spend even more points to bubblewrap it, further negating its value.

For 175 it should be Ordinance/Barrage, or at least twin linked.

I think I'd rather have the doom scythe, at least with the paper airplane I know the enemy has to work for the KP.

junk wrote:72" 9-1 Large Blast is pretty nice; but stationary, on an open topped vehicle? Any outflanker can wreck it with impunity, and if it moves, it loses the ability you just paid for, which means you have to spend even more points to bubblewrap it, further negating its value.

For 175 it should be Ordinance/Barrage, or at least twin linked.

I think I'd rather have the doom scythe, at least with the paper airplane I know the enemy has to work for the KP.

Yeah, I like the idea of deep striking one, two, or three paper airplanes and fire off a (roughly half the time) 10-11 inch line of death followed by Tesla destructors. Probably will be able to make up it's own point value in that one turn