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Not a troll'ish question, I am being serious.

I have been around since the end of second edition. I have a 9k point Black Templar army, and have played them basically exclusively since 2000 when the 3rd edition box art sold them to me. I have built near a half a dozen fantasy armies and sold them off as I am most a "look at me" kind of gamer. I like making cool looking armies, and then occasionally playing games with them, more narrative types and campaigns then tournament types (though I have participated in major GTs and put in top 25% performances).

But several years ago I just basically stopped modeling and gaming altogether. I still read the news and blogs and everything everyday, but I just can't really get back into it. The game seems to have lost its "fun". I still want to build armies and such but I just can't reason the cost of it if I get zero "use" out of them.

I want to play, but every time that I do it just seems that even casual games are full of netlists and WAAC type gaming. And the non-stop proliferation of wolf/gray knights are incredibly boring. I am not complaining about not winning when I did play, I was always about a 50% w/l gamer which suited me just fine. But one of the last games I played at a game shop was against a leafblower ig, and I have to say that basically just flipped a switch. Barely pained sloppy looking models poorly built wiped more then 75 marines and associated vehicles (probably about 100hrs worth of work all told) off the table in two turns. It wasn't even that I was mad, just disappointed and bored with the game play.

And I want to build new stuff. I want to start a fully converted up Word Bearers army (actually my second WB army), and another Empire army as well. Cost isn't terribly an issue. I am not 17 like when I started. I am not rich, but I am not living in a box either. I am an average early 30s adult American. Its about 40 minutes to the closest game shop for me as well.

So what would you do, if you were in my shoes? That is to say former very active insider with lots of stuff, now on the outside looking in and wondering if he should take the plunge again. Would you toss back into the ring and start building new armies and sticking it out hoping for some good games? Or would you just cut your losses and stay away?

Are you only interested in the Fantasy/40k universes? Or are you willing to look into other games?

If it's just 40k/Fantasy, I'd say just go for it. Remember, you're 1/2 of the equation to make this game happen. If the person who wants to play you starts pulling out Chimeras, Russes and Hydras, it's fully within your rights to say 'No, I don't want to play'.

If you have the time and money, build the armies you want. It's not a bad return on your money just to get the enjoyment of building the army, timewise.

And if you find similar minded players, play against them.

But there's no reason not to disconnect building armies from playing 40k if you have the resources.

If you enjoy the modeling/painting aspect take a look at the new necron kits. I have never been this happy wiht model kits and how cool they come together and do things. Just some really really fantastic stuff. As for playing games with them. I really think you just need to find people that want to play beer and pretzel games and less competative play. It really is about finding people you want to play with. Don't like playing the leaf blower ig list, just say na im good. You can play that competativly but not what I am looking to play against. You could also make a competative list to play against those players and then have fluffy lists to play with against other players.

I'd say just try to find a like-minded gaming group, or start one if you don't have any in your area. There are plenty of people who think like you.

I think its easier to pick up this edition of 40k if you've been away for a few years. Some people have a hard time grasping a new codex cause alot of the armies play different then they did in the last edition.

I'm sort of in the same boat. Except Necrons were the deathblow instead of IG to you. lol Their ridiculous armor melting weapons ruined it for me. Something snapped.

Now I've gotten back into it after a 3 years break as well and plan on only painting and selling models. The game itself might be dead. Or maybe I'll play a few games, but I won't get BACK into it.

There are plenty of really good game systems out there. But if GW is you're bit then go for it. As you've only been out of the game 3 years then you're already acquainted with the huge startup costs, cost of their figures, and questionable rules / support. That being said because of GWs popularity it should be pretty easy to find a 40K game somewhere if you already don't have friends who play it and the next edition is coming out next year.

I might even go out on a limb and say that after having been burned legally do to their slowness with putting out an entire range following a new codex GW released the entire Dark Eldar range (well 95%) within a year of it coming out. Hoping that's not a one shot deal, and we can hope for the same in the future.

Answering your question, I do believe that GW games are worth getting into.

But there are lots of other good non GW games out there. I guess you have to look around your base of friends and your local area to see what everyone is playing and go from there.

Contrary to what you may read on the internet, there are plenty of people like you who just want to have fun building there army and playing fun games. It's not all about tournaments and winning.

Just do what you want to do, and if you don't want to play someone then politely refuse.

As someone who has all-but-left 40k for more indie gaming pastures, I would still say that...

If you've got the $ to afford current GW prices, and you like the 40k universe, I'd say go for it. It sounds like you had alot of fun with 40k before and when you have the 40k itch, nothing else is going to scratch it like 40k.

Also, it sounds like you might have a fairly active 40k community near you. You shouldn't have too much difficulty finding casual 40k players who will really appreciate your conversion and painting skills without slapping down WAAC lists that are going to make you wish you hadn't painted that cool-but-not-tactically-optimal unit.

Since you have a collection already, why not post some notices (either real or virtual if there's a local gaming forum) that you're looking for other 40k players that have a more casual approach and see what turns up.

I think in terms of the different games available, now has never been a better time to be a wargamer. There is a wealth of different types of game, in different scales, from practically any setting you can think of - be it Privateer Press, Infinity, Flames of War, Maliflux etc. I also think some of these games are pushing back new boundaries in wargaming, which for anyone like myself (becoming jaded to playing the same game over too many years) has been a godsend.

Alternatively if you've been around for 3 years or so you could also get back into 40k in about 3 minutes and a single turn of play I reckon, so as Eilif said above me if you have the money then that might be a good option for you (doubly so if you already have the models!)

RandomX wrote:Not a troll'ish question, I am being serious.

I have been around since the end of second edition. I have a 9k point Black Templar army, and have played them basically exclusively since 2000 when the 3rd edition box art sold them to me. I have built near a half a dozen fantasy armies and sold them off as I am most a "look at me" kind of gamer. I like making cool looking armies, and then occasionally playing games with them, more narrative types and campaigns then tournament types (though I have participated in major GTs and put in top 25% performances).

But several years ago I just basically stopped modeling and gaming altogether. I still read the news and blogs and everything everyday, but I just can't really get back into it. The game seems to have lost its "fun". I still want to build armies and such but I just can't reason the cost of it if I get zero "use" out of them.

I want to play, but every time that I do it just seems that even casual games are full of netlists and WAAC type gaming. And the non-stop proliferation of wolf/gray knights are incredibly boring. I am not complaining about not winning when I did play, I was always about a 50% w/l gamer which suited me just fine. But one of the last games I played at a game shop was against a leafblower ig, and I have to say that basically just flipped a switch. Barely pained sloppy looking models poorly built wiped more then 75 marines and associated vehicles (probably about 100hrs worth of work all told) off the table in two turns. It wasn't even that I was mad, just disappointed and bored with the game play.

And I want to build new stuff. I want to start a fully converted up Word Bearers army (actually my second WB army), and another Empire army as well. Cost isn't terribly an issue. I am not 17 like when I started. I am not rich, but I am not living in a box either. I am an average early 30s adult American. Its about 40 minutes to the closest game shop for me as well.

So what would you do, if you were in my shoes? That is to say former very active insider with lots of stuff, now on the outside looking in and wondering if he should take the plunge again. Would you toss back into the ring and start building new armies and sticking it out hoping for some good games? Or would you just cut your losses and stay away?

I dug back into my archives, and returned to Rogue Trader.

Mini's are still out there, often to a lower cost for them. Rules are out there, and gathering up the storm, it is part of the fun.

I fully understand your position, and can honestly say that you are in the majority, now. GW isn't gaining alot of converts as it once did.

If you have a ready made force, I would hold what I have, play a few games, and decide on your own. I do not entirly feel proper to be the one to shoot people in the face and call out GW and go into all sorts of mess that I did a few months back. I'm well past the hate, and in the end, there are so many other game systems out there that actually want players, and do not pee on your shoes for the effort that you put into an individualized army that was once a badge of honor, and is now evolved into some sort of freak status, becuase "GW frowns upon customization, and overcharges for thier product."

Have fun with what you want to do. Whatever you decide. if you do not have fun with GW, just walk away.

RandomX wrote:I want to play, but every time that I do it just seems that even casual games are full of netlists and WAAC type gaming. And the non-stop proliferation of wolf/gray knights are incredibly boring.

The internet also thinks every table is bare of terrain and everyone ever is only playing in a tournament.

Don't listen to it, don't listen to people saying everyone is TFG running Space Wolves with 22 missile launchers or mech Blood angels. Do a bit of research, and find clubs in your area, and visit them on days when they play. Find one which has the attitude you're looking for, and ask them about joining.

There's far more people out there playing super casually that you'll have a lot more fun playing against, but these people don't tend to inhabit message boards.

If you find something you like you should go ahead and get into it.

In the beginning I would just use what I have and get a few games in before I started buying a whole new army though.

I would say, go to a hobby shop and just browse. And since you said that cost isn't really an issue, I'd just find something that takes your fancy. Maybe just a single blister, or a basic box of troops.

Just paint those up, or convert them, or whatever is your joy! Then, if you still feel a need to continue, go back, keep browsing, and buy something that takes your fancy. That way you can explore new armies, or old ones, and build or move on.

3 years is but the blink of an eye.

If you want back in, get back in. It's that simple.

Unless you went so far out onto a branch and did a niche variant army no longer supported (Iron Warriors, pure chaos cultist, etc), most of your stuff is still supported and will work.

Marines with bolters will always be marines with bolters. They might get pistols and ccw some editions and not others, though.

Get back into the hobby sure, but stay away from Games Workshop. I don't really see how anyone could recommend getting into GW at the moment. They have no conscience with regards to how they treat their customers or their staff, and they don't deserve your business. If you start collecting a new army now, you're only setting yourself up to feel bitter and outraged next year when they jack prices up again.

There are lots of other great games and miniature companies around now. Many of them are better and cheaper than GW too. If you give one a chance you might be surprised how much more fun and rewarding the hobby can be.

My advice.

1. WAAC unpainted armies are part of the HHHObby but it isn’t all like that. Find a club or at least a group of like-minded pals to play with. There are plenty of us around.

2. You may be a bit shocked by the prices nowadays. You might want to hang on to your BTs, and either update them with a few modern models, or perhaps repaint some of them into different SM armies.

3. If you like modeling, then consider making an army with non-GW kits. SMs and IG are easy to do with historical kits and non-GW SF figures.

4. Buy the Assault on Black Ridge small rulebook from eBay. The big black book in hardback is expensive and likely to become obsolete in 2012 as 6th edition is expected.

5. Look at non-GW games. If you like SF, then Infinity has a growing following. The miniatures are lovely, and there is loads of scope for building terrain as you will need a lot of it.

Its hard to put myself on anyone shoes because everyone do have different preferences etc But I will share my current experience hoping it will help... I have been a collector for many years and have a huge 28mm collection form many ranges... next year I will migrate to the UK and its going to be impossible to take my hobby with me for the first years so I had either to give it up or change something.

I searched for a option and I looked into things that I discarded before so I rediscovered my hobby all over again by starting 15mm, its small minis I can carry them with me on my first years without to much hassle... I will manage to still paint a bit.

What I'm saying if I was you I would look very well for options and go with the one that suits my reality better, whatever you do dont give up because hobbies are quite rewarding to your personal balance.

Navarro, don't get rid of your 28mm stuff.

If there is no room in your flat in the UK you can store them in a local storage warehouse fairly cheaply.

15mm is a great scale for large battles and modern/SF skirmish, though.

20mm also has a lot to offer for WW2 and more recent periods, thanks to the huge selection of 1/27 scale kits on the market.

NAVARRO wrote:Its hard to put myself on anyone shoes because everyone do have different preferences etc But I will share my current experience hoping it will help... I have been a collector for many years and have a huge 28mm collection form many ranges... next year I will migrate to the UK and its going to be impossible to take my hobby with me for the first years so I had either to give it up or change something.

I searched for a option and I looked into things that I discarded before so I rediscovered my hobby all over again by starting 15mm, its small minis I can carry them with me on my first years without to much hassle... I will manage to still paint a bit.

What I'm saying if I was you I would look very well for options and go with the one that suits my reality better, whatever you do dont give up because hobbies are quite rewarding to your personal balance.

Don't sell up.
If you ask on the forums there is bound to be someone who will let you keep your minis in their attic.
In fact - if you are going to be in North Kent you can put them in mine. No charge.

I echo the comments of polonius, TiB and marielle before me.

Finding even 1 opponent with the same mindset: that is the key to enjoyment of this hobby. It is a sociable activity, time to be shared with people you like. You just need to find 1 or 2 of the right people. I avoid clubs and try to find local(ish) kindred spirits online, but maybe you have tried that tack already?

To be honest; we can't answer for you whether or not it is 'worth it' with regards to jumping back into the hobby. Yes, we can offer advice and thoughts (but always with a tint of bias!) however we cannot assess how you will take to the game again.

Best advice? Just do it, try it out again. If you spend too long on Dakka and listen to everyone, you'll soon feel jaded with the hobby. Pick up the brush, buy a couple of squads, have some fun. That's what the hobby is about, that's how it should stay.

Smacks wrote:Get back into the hobby sure, but stay away from Games Workshop. I don't really see how anyone could recommend getting into GW at the moment.

I understand your feelings, but I can recommend getting into GW for the same reasons that -while I'm not into 40k right now- I still hold onto my two 40k armies. 40k has a background that nothing else is quite like, and if you want to game, or if no one wants to play the games you like, there's always a huge built-in 40k player base.

40k isn't the best by any means, but it has some very strong advantages that should not be ignored.

Kilkrazy wrote:My advice.
2. You may be a bit shocked by the prices nowadays. You might want to hang on to your BTs, and either update them with a few modern models, or perhaps repaint some of them into different SM armies....

...
4. Buy the Assault on Black Ridge small rulebook from eBay. The big black book in hardback is expensive and likely to become obsolete in 2012 as 6th edition is expected.

5. Look at non-GW games. If you like SF, then Infinity has a growing following. The miniatures are lovely, and there is loads of scope for building terrain as you will need a lot of it.

Very good bits of advice. Play a few games with your BT's, buy the cheap rulebook and don't close the door to some of the other great games out there.

The interweb, as always, is representative of the loudest, not the majority.

I have a group of gamers that are generally fluffy and fun, and always paint their armies. Currently, none of them plays SW or GK, and the only BA is Lamenters.

Even in the tournaments I've been to, the vast majority of people I play with are there to have fun meeting and playing other gamers.

The internet would have you believe that the 'competitive' crowd is much, much bigger than it actually is.

I say go for it. Just pick who you play with.

Personally, I think we're entering a golden age of miniatures wargaming; there are lots of choices both in scale, background genres and rules systems. I do not agree at all with the people who advocate finding a few people of similar mindset and holing up in someone's basement. It is what was edging toward killing miniatures gaming in Oslo since I was in the scene last.

Find a group, preferably a large one. Find several! Play "publicly" - in game stores or gaming clubs. Contrary to foolish opinion, you do not need to play people you do not enjoy playing against even if you meet them in the club. Even if you find a couple of like-minded people outside said group, bring them in and play against them in the club/group.

Why? Because likely, you will accumulate more like-minded people in your little sub-group of the group, and let's face it: we're all miniatures gamers here. There is LOTS of stuff you can do alongside the people you do not enjoy playing against - organizing or partaking in terrain and table building, taking part in painting contests/painting nights, chat about miniatures wargaming in general while having a few beers, organizing or taking part in multi-system events or demo nights, et cetera et cetera.

All this will build up the community (and on the terrain/table side, allow everybody to have more interesting games) and let people see that there is an active scene, which will mean more people that want to play the same way you do. Don't whine about "WAAC players", "fluff bunnies", "softshells" or whatever deregatory language is the flavour of the month. A focus on winning tournaments over making a thematic army is as valid as the opposite - if there is even an opposition between the two at all.

As others have mentioned if you have your old stuff, I'd keep it.
6th ed is out next year and whilst I hold very little hope of an interesting revamp or ground breaking ruleset it has the potential to reset the playing field.
With everyone having to "relearn" the rules, work with new army lists/FOCs and adapt to whatever extras GW throw in you hopefully wont have to face those leafblower or 12 razorback lists - at least for a while.

Having said all that it does sound like you are more into the painting/fluff/easy going gaming side of things.
In that regard I think GW can still suit you. Their model ranges undeniably have been improving, I expect some serious new terrain kits for 6th and there are several "new" armies with great looks/feel to them. Price not being an issue is a bonus too.

In relation to finding a group or avoiding the "WAAC" gang, try and play a few games at the local store and if you find someone who is pleasant and fun to play against dont hesitate to ask for games regularly. Most people just want to play, plain and simple.

tl;dr Do you still have a passion for hobby? does it make you smile and have fun more often then not? Does it still tug at your heart strings? Your answer will really answer your own question.

The first problem I see here, si the equation that hours of work = decent ability on thegaming table.....I'm not poking fun at you, strange as it may sound, I had a similar experience when I was running a (yeah I know) Ultramarine army, I too spent hours lovingly painting these figures, just to pluck them off the table and put them back into a box in less than a fraction of the time it took to get them looking nice.

Now I make a really strong distinction between my gaming painting and my display painting.

I kinda think that's where you need to go with your dilema. You also need to decide what you're really into. I understand that purchasing a large army just for display is hard to justify, and to be fair, so should it be....I can't imagine anything more mind numbing to a miniature painter then having to paint clone wars.

A good middle path would be to get back into table top wargaming, but through skirmish level games, such as Infinity, MERCS, Anima Tactics, etc. These games allow you to get down to the grass roots in terms of painting, but also give you the ability to field your army in the knowledge that they won't get wiped off the table in two turns. Also because of the individualistic nature of minatures the time you spend painting is really justified....it's like painting an army full of special characters for WH40K, as a really loose example.

Delephont wrote:
A good middle path would be to get back into table top wargaming, but through skirmish level games, such as Infinity, MERCS, Anima Tactics, etc. These games allow you to get down to the grass roots in terms of painting, but also give you the ability to field your army in the knowledge that they won't get wiped off the table in two turns. Also because of the individualistic nature of minatures the time you spend painting is really justified....it's like painting an army full of special characters for WH40K, as a really loose example.

Couldn't agree with this more. If you are going for army size painting, I would recommend the fairly new-ish army painter range. You can use an undercoat spray closest to the final colour you need, paint in block colours, then use the shading 'dip' which I think essentially saves you shading and highlighting. A spray of matt varnish and you are done.

I've really enjoyed approaching each Infinity mini individually (like you say, as a character piece) and putting lots of effort into it as well. But the approaches for each quantity are quite different, and putting too much effort into hordes of identikit models I would say is the quick path to insanity.