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I've been playing around with Draigo lately, including a tournament, and I have to say, he's pretty decent. The Tournament was a doubles tournament with me and a friend that had lots and lots of genestealers, with the idea that the stealers infiltrating, with Mordrak DSing turn 1, would create lots of "pressure" and a pretty easy second turn charge. It worked quite well.

That was a doubles, but it got me thinking about Mordrak in normal lists. I was initially of the opinion he'd only work at small point lists, as I thought he's be dakka'd down, but I've found he and his squad to be more durable than that, so I'm going to use him more. (besides, already painted up some ghost nights)

Now here's the thing, I have so far been mostly a Draigo player (with semi-Draigo wing). The traditional companion for Mordrak has been a Librarian, mostly to warp rift that first turn. But Draigo is a ridiculous badass, and I've often found that once you get him to the enemy, he just wins, so getting him there is almost the whole task. He also does have a flamer attack of his own, which people often forget, and can add durability to the ghost knights as well.

Basic plan would be to have Mordrak+Draigo (and a banner, of course), and then a storm raven with some purgators inside and teleport homer on them (which is better than putting it on the raven, it's cheaper and won't pop with the raven). There will be a 5 man paladin squad and psycannons and a dreadknight with heavy incinerator and psycannon (this has been pure gold against necrons, particularly scarabs) that will DS turn 2 (notably I have two psychic communions, which stack, so I have very good chances to come down turn 2). Add dreadnoughts and GKSS to taste. The idea is that Mordrak and Draigo come in behind them, and the paladins and dreadknight in front of them, and they're kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've had trouble getting my stormraven to live (usually carrying Draigo) beyond turn 2, and I'm hoping people will be much more concerned with the beasts behind them and let my stormraven run around a bit longer.

Notably, I get two separate Grand Master rolls. That's more than you can probably actually use, but it's still pretty cool and certainly gives redundancy.

Obviously it will work less well against super mobile armies like any kind of eldar, but will work really well against your typical "parking lot" style list. You do always have the option to not DS Mordrak, and put Draigo back in with the Paladins, if that makes more sense.

What do you guys think?

That would be a very powerful combo. How many pts do you each get to use? Depending on the pts I would be hesistant to sink so much into just 10 models. The only flaw I see is what seems like counting on the communion. In most tourneys in my exp have a lot of psychic defense espeacially in the core of their army whether its a hood, eldar stuff, etc. Hard to give to much advice though without knowing pt allotment and tourney rules. I have a double tourney tomorrow that has rules about what fast heavy etc we can each take.. Essentially ours break it into a 2k tourney using 2 codexes to make the army.

To be clear, when I did try it, it was doubles and 1250 each. We were sharing an org chart, one HQ each, so it wasn't both Mordrak and Draigo. It did work well, though.

This new combo I'm figuring on around 200o pts, though things could be trimmed a little to fit it in smaller pts.

Expensive. Don't do it unless you have a lot of points to waste.

It's a gimmick that I don't think will work that well. I would try it out for fun but not in a tournament setting.

BTW, you're probably already aware of this, but Mordrak isn't an IC. Thus, he can't bring in Driago + paladins on Turn 1. The only thing you can do is add Draigo to Mordrak's ghost knights.

Also, from what you're describing, it seems as if you're deepstriking Draigo+Mordrak on Turn 2 in order to DS them behind the raven? If so, then you can't use Psychic Communion as they have to already be on the board to use it. If not, then why do you want to DS behind the raven anyways?

I thought you got stomped at the doubles tournament? Is my info wrong?

jy2 wrote:It's a gimmick that I don't think will work that well. I would try it out for fun but not in a tournament setting.

BTW, you're probably already aware of this, but Mordrak isn't an IC. Thus, he can't bring in Driago + paladins on Turn 1. The only thing you can do is add Draigo to Mordrak's ghost knights.

Also, from what you're describing, it seems as if you're deepstriking Draigo+Mordrak on Turn 2 in order to DS them behind the raven? If so, then you can't use Psychic Communion as they have to already be on the board to use it. If not, then why do you want to DS behind the raven anyways?

I'm aware that Mordrak isn't an IC. However, he and his ghostknights are a unit, and Draigo can join that unit. If he joins the unit and they DS, than Draigo does indeed come down with them, and not only that but they must come in turn 1. I've never heard anything otherwise.

I was planning on DSing the paladins and Dread knight off the teleport homer in the purgation squad, who would be in the storm raven. Since Mordrak and Draigo are guaranteed down turn 1, they get to use their psychic communions.

DooDoo wrote:I thought you got stomped at the doubles tournament? Is my info wrong?

Huh? I didn't actually say anything about the outcome of the tournament. Who are you, do I know know you from somewhere?

We won our first two games with massacres, full pts, and got a minor loss in the 3rd. (though there were frankly some shenanigans around that)

Too expensive for my liking. Two named characters in one army? Beware.

It's not the expense (Draigo is excellent value) and Mordrak is cheaper than a properly built Librarian (ie 3-5 powers plus warding stave). The problem with a Draigo/Mordrak list is that it's not as good as a Draigo/Librarian one as the Librarian's powers are far more effective at keeping a force alive than any advantage conferred by Mordrak's deep strike and grand-strategies. That might have been different had they made Mordrak an IC, but they didn't.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:I'm aware that Mordrak isn't an IC. However, he and his ghostknights are a unit, and Draigo can join that unit. If he joins the unit and they DS, than Draigo does indeed come down with them, and not only that but they must come in turn 1. I've never heard anything otherwise.

So they come in on Turn 1. If you're not putting them in cover in the opponent's deployment zone, then you're not taking advantage of Mordrak's special ability (and IMO the main reason to take him). And if you do, then you risk having that mini-deathstar wiped out by your opponent's entire army.

It's a gimmick move that can work against certain armies/players, but against a balanced army run by a decent general, more often than not he can wipe out that unit, though it'll probably take all his firepower to do so.

It's a noob hammer tactic. Good for clubbing baby seals bad against vets. You would likely enjoy it though

jy2 wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:I'm aware that Mordrak isn't an IC. However, he and his ghostknights are a unit, and Draigo can join that unit. If he joins the unit and they DS, than Draigo does indeed come down with them, and not only that but they must come in turn 1. I've never heard anything otherwise.

So they come in on Turn 1. If you're not putting them in cover in the opponent's deployment zone, then you're not taking advantage of Mordrak's special ability (and IMO the main reason to take him). And if you do, then you risk having that mini-deathstar wiped out by your opponent's entire army.

It's a gimmick move that can work against certain armies/players, but against a balanced army run by a decent general, more often than not he can wipe out that unit, though it'll probably take all his firepower to do so.

To be clear, you pretty much always put it down in cover, close to the enemy as possible. That's what I was saying in the first post -- the unit was more durable than I expected. Because I DID put it down right next to an experienced IG player, with partner being sisters, and they weren't able to hurt it at first.

I use Mordrak and Draigo w/ 30 Termies/Paladins. But obviously only in big games. 6 S10 Atttacks from Mordrak on the charge is horrific, plus you get 2 Grand Strategies.

Artemo wrote:It's not the expense (Draigo is excellent value) and Mordrak is cheaper than a properly built Librarian (ie 3-5 powers plus warding stave). The problem with a Draigo/Mordrak list is that it's not as good as a Draigo/Librarian one as the Librarian's powers are far more effective at keeping a force alive than any advantage conferred by Mordrak's deep strike and grand-strategies. That might have been different had they made Mordrak an IC, but they didn't.

I don't really use a libby with draigo army anymore. Too expensive, does too little. I do when I'm doing the proper 10 man block, but I'm usually not.

Fair enough. i fInd a Librarian far and away the most effective unit in the codex when combined with paladins or terminators, but everyone has different experiences.

Just too many hoods, runes, shadow in the warps, etc.

Also, with Draigo, usually the only power I actually need is shrouding. Might's good but enough hammers and hammerhands can make up for it.

200+ pts is a lot to pay for a (sometimes) +1 to cover save.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Just too many hoods, runes, shadow in the warps, etc.

Also, with Draigo, usually the only power I actually need is shrouding. Might's good but enough hammers and hammerhands can make up for it.

200+ pts is a lot to pay for a (sometimes) +1 to cover save.

Too many hoods, runes etc is a weakness period for gk not just a librarian. Espeacially the 3d6 tests are nasty.

After seeing too many paladins run off the table from tank shocks, I believe a pally star needs the toilet of judgment.

Oh my god... Would people quit insisting that paladins lose because you can tankshock them? Last i checked, tank shocking a ld 9 (ten with a character) is NOT a reliable way to kill them. What you will do, however, is bunch up all of your tanks into a massive roadblock for conviniant multi-assaults. IT DOESN"T WORK PEOPLE! Saying pallystar is vunerable to tankshocks is ridiculous. What would happen if someone was asking for advice on how to beat th/ss termies with lysander, and someone told them "Oh, just tankshock the unit so they fail ld and run them off the table"? They would get laughed out the thread. Same princible applys hear.

/rant.

Seconded.

The worst thing about some of the tacticts threads is when a decent and sometimes overlooked tactic is overblown to 'do this and autowin' status.

Still doesn't change the fact that my pallies fear mechdar. Still can't catch them after their 24" tank shocks, let alone multi-assault.

Oh, my bad, forgot that this thread is about Draigo+ Mordrak and not "how-to-kill-paladins". Lol.

jy2 wrote:Still doesn't change the fact that my pallies fear mechdar. Still can't catch them after their 24" tank shocks, let alone multi-assault.

Oh, my bad, forgot that this thread is about Draigo+ Mordrak and not "how-to-kill-paladins". Lol.

Spend too much on non paladins helps "kill" them with inferior squad size. So no you are on track here.

I have found a 5 man squad of paladins (2 psycannons, usually a banner) works quite well. But this thread isn't about that.

The list I'm planning contains paladins, but the paladins aren't the point. Delivering Draigo, guaranteed, to the front line is.

The list has a aknowledged weakness against both types of eldar, since thay can just zoom away. However, against the lists I see most often, i.e., various kinds of IG and SM parking lots, it seems like it would do quite well.