Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello, I am planning a few Eldar purchases. I have been using the search function and reading intently, but still have two questions:


1- What vehicle modifications are good for wave serpents / fire prisms / falcons?

I take it holo-fields on Falcons are a great buy, and pair it with missile launcher.

For the serpent I will be magnetising the weapons but don't know what mods (star engines, vectored engines, holo-fields?). I am particularly concerned about star engines and vectored engines, as the kit sprus require the model to be fully assembled, so it will be difficult to swap in / swap out.

Fireprism I plan to run naked.



2 - What is the optimal configuration for a jetseer council?

I take it the farseer with runes or warding, guide and fortune

but the warlocks? 1 warlock with conceal, 1 warlock with embolden, then 2+ warlocks with destructor? Or should there be an enhance warlock, or some other configuration?

For the vechicle holo fields are the only worthwhile upgrade. For the seers that sounds about right (without the embolden one) happy hunting

I assume from his name that Shas'O Kias plays Tau. And from his comment that he doesn't play a JetCouncil.

For your Seer always take RoWard and Fortune. Get guide if you are running shooters nearby but their guns are already twin-linked so the Council wont need it. My Seer rides with RoWard, Fortune, Mind War, Stones and a Spear. He loses an attack but he's terrible in combat anyway and I charge a lot of things that could potentially ID him (like MCs, for example). I actually run him in the back of the group and space him so he doesn't make it into the first round of combat.

Your Warlocks need at minimum 1 Embolden and 1 Enhance. Those are golden. You'll nearly never fail Fortune with the ld reroll and you'll go first against most enemies, hitting on 3s. I personally take two of each for when one eventually dies. That will get the Council to do its most basic job. From there season to taste with Destructors and maybe a spear or 2. My setup is 2Emb, 2Enh, 2Destro, 1Spear, 1Normal. If I have points and don't know what to do with them I'll get 2 more Destro but that only happens in Apoc because I'm always short on points.

On Wave Srepents I only take Spirit Stones but I've been considering Star Engines lately. But I got my tanks from the battleforce which doesn't include the upgrade sprue so I just didn't worry about modeling it.

My 2 Falcon setups are as follows: 1) Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones, Holofields for 175. Or 2) Bright Lance, Spirit Stones, Holofields, Underslung Shuriken Cannon for 200. I move at combat speed usually anyway so the expensive one can still Dakka at 30" or since I guide 2 of these I can reliably shoot AV14.

Dont really worry about modeling the spirit stones. There are so many stones on the vehicle, that its hard to determine if they are there or not. The same applies to vectored/star engines.

I've seen star engines used to great effect; they don't often come into play unless you really plan to take advantage of them. They're great during turn 1 of DOW deployments.

Holo-fields are basically mandatory on Falcons unless you are pushing a vehicle overload list. They are one of the best vehicle upgrades in the game and make a Falcon with DAVU one of the best objective holders around. On Prisms they aren't as necessary nor as effective. The Prism is cheaper to start with, has longer range (so can avoid more fire coming its way), less reason to stay alive (as in its not transporting a vital scoring unit) and with one 1 weapon doesn't benefit from it as much (it actually slightly increases the chances of losing your main weapon, Prisms would far rather get immobilised).

Star Engines are completely pointless and Vectored Engines are way too expensive for very limited use. 24" per turn is already heaps, Eldar have no reason to get in close that fast and even from your own board edge a 24" move then a 12" move + disembark gets you into range of anything on the board. Eldar should not be taking assault units to start with, but the only units which have any use for more than 24" of movement are assault units without Fleet (some DE stuff mostly) since it ensures they get a 2 turn charge from their own board edge.

A JetCouncil as a bare minimum needs a Farseer with Fortune, Witnessing (can't afford to fail Fortune at any point), Warding (if no one else in the army has it) and obviously a Jetbike. Then you need 8+ Warlocks on Bikes, 1 Embolden and 1 Enhance are mandatory/absolutely minimum loadout. Embolden keeps you on the board (and ensures Fortune goes off) and Enhance actually makes them a viable combat unit since you now hit on 3's for the most part. Conceal is utterly pointless, since you already have a 4+ invulnerable. Usually you will want to add at least 1 more Enhance and Embolden to the squad to give yourself some redundancy and then you can fill the remaining slots with as many Destructors as you like (some people like to go overboard and use the squad as a mobile flamer unit, others take 1-2 max since they want to be in combat and just want a bit of horde control). Singing Spears are ok, but don't go overboard with them since the unit needs every attack it can get in combat to fight infantry, probably 1-2 max.

Thanks for all the answers so far!

Thankfully I bought 3x falcons, 5x WS and 3x Fire Prisms / Night Spinners before GW closed the EU webstores to the rest of the world

I will order some kits from chapterhouse for the jetseers, just seeing how many I'll need to order...

dnanoodle wrote:
On Wave Srepents I only take Spirit Stones but I've been considering Star Engines lately. But I got my tanks from the battleforce which doesn't include the upgrade sprue so I just didn't worry about modeling it.

The problem with the upgrade sprue star engines is that the part has to be placed into the engine and the two main hull halves locked around it. If you have glued the top and bottom together, you cannot add it in. It cannot be magnetised easily as well.

An alternative is magnets and plasticard (see 4th image from the top):
http://eldar.arhicks.co.uk/miniatures/craftworld/craftworld_scorpion_1.php

I don't recall any of the original sprues containing any of the vehicle upgrades, besides the Spirit Stone?

As a reference, Forge World has this Vehicle Upgrade Pack (way overpriced of course )




I've been considering the Falcon myself, but i just don't see it's potential with it's BS3. I just can't seem to fully wrap my mind around it, i guess?

@DNA
You post some interesting replies often. But i can't quite understand the 2x Emb/Enh in Jetlock units? I'd also personally keep them clean of any sort of spears (despite the low cost), as it grants them more attacks in CC (which shouldn't be that much of a hassle with Fortune and JBs?
- The Falcon setup is interesting. How does it work with the rest of your army? Guided to compensate for bs3, or..?

Just to clarify do not mix up the roles of your Falcons. They are a long range gunboat with the added benefit of carrying 5 DA to be scoring. As such load it out with EML, Holofields, and Spirit stones. Put a Guide farseer inside and now you have a 3 S8 48" shot scoring tank that is extremely annoying to try to kill.

Falcons work in best synergy in the following configs:
-Eldrad, Falcon, Falcon, Nightspinner
-Eldrad, Falcon, Prism, Prism
-Eldrad or Guideseer, Falcon, Nightspinner, Nightspinner
Eldrad and Guideseer, Falcon, Falcon, Falcon

Billinator wrote:I don't recall any of the original sprues containing any of the vehicle upgrades, besides the Spirit Stone?

As a reference, Forge World has this Vehicle Upgrade Pack (way overpriced of course )

It's on the Fire Prism sprue, I have uploaded a picture with it highlighted

Ok, I'm gonna have to disagree with Powerguy here on some of his ideas about Star Engines and Holo Fields on Fire Prisms.

The way you build a list should dictate what you put on your tanks, not just a standard template construct type approach. The reason I say this is because I've found certain tricks to using Eldar that can keep your opponent off guard and frustrated throughout the game if you decide to use them. The frustration is nice because often times when someone gets frustrated they arent thinking clearly and tend to make more tactical blunders than they would normally. Sun Tzu's art of war calls this a good thing.

More often than not I find Holo Fields, Spirit Stones, and Star Engines very important on my Heavy Support choices. Here's why.

The Star Engines give you the extra movement you may need to contest or take the objectives during the last crucial turn of the game. The Spirit Stones ensure you aren't stunned and unable to move to do this and the Holo Fields are what has kept your vehicle alive by forcing your opponent to roll two dice on the damage table and take the lowest.

If your opponent shoots your Fire Prism and blows off the turret, you can still make the Fire Prism a credible threat to the enemy. Again, in this case, Spirit Stones will keep you mobile, Holo Fields will keep you alive, and Star Engines will allow you to maneuver to set up some scary rams.

As an example, in my last game vs Grey Knights I had put all three of those upgrades on all my HS choices. His Psyrifle dreads opened up at one Fire Prism and blew its main turret off. So I decided they had to go. In my next turn, I had Eldrad cast fortune on the Fire Prism without the turret and moved it flat out, then kicked in the Star Engines and moved it another 12 inches to set up a beautiful ram.

He turned one psyrifle dread to shoot it, thinking it not much of a threat but hoping he could finish it off. My cover save helped a little but two shots got through. Of those the Holo fields reduced them to a 1 and a 2. The spirit stones kept me mobile.

In my next turn I declared a ram and slammed my Fire Prism into his Psyrifle Dread from 23 inches away. The dreadnought did no damage back, again, thanks to holo fields and spirit stones, and I caused a strength 10 hit that blew up his dreadnought.

Later against the same player they came in handy again when I declared a bunch of Tank Shocks against his 10 man Paladin squad with every surviving tank I had. The first turns tank shock did nothing to the Paladins and they multi assulted my line of tanks in their turn. They needed sixes to hit because I had gone flat out. they were able to attack my two fire prisms, my falcon, and one of my wave serpents. They ended up killing the wave serpent but because of the combination of needing sixes to hit, holo fields, and spirit stones, they did no damage at all to my other tanks other than shake them.

So in my next turn I tank shocked them again and they failed their morale test and ran off of the board.

As another example of what they can be used for, in another game I played, I used the same combination of upgrades and again, the ork player used a squad of Lootas to destroy the turret of one of my Fire Prisms. So, for the rest of that game I used my damaged fire prism to tank shock into his boys mobs and land it right on top of them, bunching them up. The Holo fields saved me from the Death or Glory power fist by him rolling a 2 in one of his two dice, and then his boyz had to move out of the way by the shortest possible route. So I moved up my seer council in preparation for spraying him down with Destructor templates, kicked in the Star Engines so I could get the tank out of the way and closer to where I really wanted to attack, and shot the boyz with my Destructors.

Another use for them is making a mobile screen for some other unit you may have. For instance, I took two Falcons and gave them the same combo of upgrades, I also took one squad of Dark Reapers and set them up in cover. I kept one Falcon near them shooting Rhino's and light transports until the guys were blown out of their vehicles, then I would open up with the entire squad of Dark Reapers and the Exarch with Crack Shot and the Tempest Launcher on the guys blown out of the Rhino. Then I would kick in the Star Engines on one of my Falcons (the one that didn't fire, usually because it had been shaken in a previous turn) and move it so it would completely block any line of sight to my Dark Reapers from the Enemy. Again, the Holo Fields and Spirit Stones coupled with Fortune would keep the Falcon alive, and the Star engines would allow it to move to block line of sight.

So to me they are invaluable, depending on how I set up my list.

BlueDagger wrote:Just to clarify do not mix up the roles of your Falcons. They are a long range gunboat with the added benefit of carrying 5 DA to be scoring. As such load it out with EML, Holofields, and Spirit stones. Put a Guide farseer inside and now you have a 3 S8 48" shot scoring tank that is extremely annoying to try to kill.

Falcons work in best synergy in the following configs:
-Eldrad, Falcon, Falcon, Nightspinner
-Eldrad, Falcon, Prism, Prism
-Eldrad or Guideseer, Falcon, Nightspinner, Nightspinner
Eldrad and Guideseer, Falcon, Falcon, Falcon

To add to this.
Another excellent role of a falcon is to be an objective grabber thats nearly impossible to stop through shooting. A fortuned falcon with holo fileds tanks a -ton- of shooting to destroy.

@Roadkill Zombie. Holos and Spirit Stones I have no issue with, Holos are one of the best vehicle upgrades in the game (I only said they are less effective/important for Prisms which is true no matter how you spin it) and Spirit Stones an invaluable for an army which relies on staying mobile. Star Engines are pointless though, 24" is already heaps of movement. All the stuff you mentioned in your examples would have been accomplished just as easily without them (unless you are telling me that Prism had its weapon blown off by a Dread that was over 60" away). The only practical use you mentioned was using it to jump in front of things to block LOS after they have shot, but using a 150+pt vehicle to do that is incredibly inefficient.

In general pouring too many points into upgrades is a mistake many people make and is an easy way to end up with a under performing lists (not always though). Just as an example, cutting 2 Holos and 2 Star Engines from a pair of Prisms gives you enough points for a pair of Vypers. This boosts your damage output and gives you a heap of tactical options, and with good positioning your durability is the same if not better (since its now 4 vehicles which have to be shot down separately rather than 2 and the Prisms can sit in the corners to avoid being shot in the first place).

Powerguy wrote:In general pouring too many points into upgrades is a mistake many people make and is an easy way to end up with a under performing lists (not always though). Just as an example, cutting 2 Holos and 2 Star Engines from a pair of Prisms gives you enough points for a pair of Vypers. This boosts your damage output and gives you a heap of tactical options, and with good positioning your durability is the same if not better (since its now 4 vehicles which have to be shot down separately rather than 2 and the Prisms can sit in the corners to avoid being shot in the first place).

I used to think, when I bought the codex, "Imma buy a vehicle with all the options"

then, as powerguy points out, I notice it's better to "run it naked then add options that are essential." Why? Because with the points spent on options, one can buy more vanilla troops / elites and hence more shots. Better to run stuff naked and buy more shots, unless there's a game-breakingly essential armory option, like holo-fields.



@powerguy even the DAVU squads are basic, 5 man avengers with no exarch, yes?

Billinator
Heh thanks man. The extra embolden and enhance are basically there for insurance. My main opponents are familiar enough with my Council that unless they're gonna hammer it with wounds they don't bother shooting. So basically wounds often wrap the unit and my Embolden and Enhance 'Locks sometimes die. I've never had a game where both of either type die though =)

That Falcon setup is something new I've been doing lately. I like it well because it makes the tank a credible danger to everything. Usually I'd not take expensive Bright Lances on low BS platforms but I run a pair of these with a GuideSeer or Eldrad at higher points and then they really shine. They also act as emergency transports for my infiltrated Rangers or as a transport for Harlequins when I don't need them for counter assault. In that case I'll move slow and shoot until I get stunned and then race the Harlies up to melta or assault.

My current list using these:

HQ
GuideSeer w/ RoWard

Elites
1x 5 Dragons in Serpents w/ Stones and TL ShuCan
1x 5 Dragons in Serpents w/ Stones and TL Scatter Laser
6 Harlequins - 1 Shadowseer, kisses all around, 2 Fusion Pistols

Troops
2 x 10 Guardians w/ Scatter Lasers
2 x 5 Rangers

Fast Attack
8 Warp Spiders - Exarch w/ Dual Spinners, Power Blades and Withdraw

Heavy Support
2x Falcon w/ Brightlance, Stones, Holos, Underslung ShuCan
3x Scatter Walkers

1850 and it packs a ton of S6 with significant long range S8 for medium armor primarily, but with the ability to threaten AV14. The Falcons offer me a lot of versatility because I have 5 units I can pop in them if I want. I generally put just the GuideSeer in one, Dragons in Serpents and put everyone else on the ground. Then I pick up the Rangers when it's time to objective grab or if they're about to get rocked by enemy closing in on them.

Powerguy and others may note that I only took essential upgrades (the undeslung ShuCan is essential to me since I move slowly anyway and want the most out of these as gunboats). I do want some Star Engines, but not for the Falcons. I'd like them for the Dragons' Serpents. 1) it would allow me to get in there and nuke things easier. 2) My Wave Serpents often end up far from support when dropping off Dragons and still survive the following round. I'd love to get back to my Guardians even faster so I can pick them up for protection and objective grabbing as by this time it is probably turn 3-4.

As far as Fire Prisms go, I like them either naked or with Stones and Holos. If they're naked I just hold back as far as possible and play their ridiculously long range. With upgrades I move into tank shocking when my gun gets blown off. I see the case for either load-out but I prefer naked because those upgrades cost a lot and as you can see in the list above I like to cram in as many guns as I can (without spamming any more than 2 of something anyway hehe).

Powerguy wrote:@Roadkill Zombie. Holos and Spirit Stones I have no issue with, Holos are one of the best vehicle upgrades in the game (I only said they are less effective/important for Prisms which is true no matter how you spin it) and Spirit Stones an invaluable for an army which relies on staying mobile. Star Engines are pointless though, 24" is already heaps of movement. All the stuff you mentioned in your examples would have been accomplished just as easily without them (unless you are telling me that Prism had its weapon blown off by a Dread that was over 60" away). The only practical use you mentioned was using it to jump in front of things to block LOS after they have shot, but using a 150+pt vehicle to do that is incredibly inefficient.

In general pouring too many points into upgrades is a mistake many people make and is an easy way to end up with a under performing lists (not always though). Just as an example, cutting 2 Holos and 2 Star Engines from a pair of Prisms gives you enough points for a pair of Vypers. This boosts your damage output and gives you a heap of tactical options, and with good positioning your durability is the same if not better (since its now 4 vehicles which have to be shot down separately rather than 2 and the Prisms can sit in the corners to avoid being shot in the first place).

I still think you didn't quite get the point about Star Engines. One of the strength of Eldar is their maneuverability. Star Engines are one of the Eldar's greatest strengths. Choosing not to use them is in my opinion a very bad idea. While I agree that 24 inches is a lot of movement, it is a lot of movement only available to you in the movement phase.

Putting them on vehicles allows you to do things like tank shock a unit (and since there is no official ruling on this, if you arent using INAT FAQ rules tank shock twice with the same tank in a turn, once using movement, then again using Star Engines) and then get out of the way so they can't charge your vehicle in their next turn.

It allows you to dash in and grab unprotected objectives your opponent thought was safe that you could not have gotten had you only been able to move 24 inches in a turn.

It allows your vehicle to ram or tank shock someone and then re position which way your rear armor is facing which you cannot do if you didn't take Star Engines.

It allows a vehicle to make long range objective contests on your last turn, again, not always doable if you don't have star engines.

and it allows you to tank shock a nasty non fearless close combat unit, watch them break and run, and then in your shooting phase, move closer to them with the Star Engines so you can escort them off of the table since they cannot regroup. You would not be able to do that without Star Engines.

As far as getting my turret blown off, you don't always have the choice to put your Fire Prism 60 inches away from someone. Sometimes they have enough stuff on the board that no matter where you put something there will be something that can shoot it. That was the case in my example as I did not get to go first in that game and it was a 2500 point game.

Anyway, aside from all of that, yeah, like I said before, I agree that they are not always the best choice but there are some things I said in that post that you could not have done without star engines regardless of your claims otherwise. Because of the distance involved I would not have been able to Tank Shock the paladins without star engines on the damaged Fire Prism and getting as many Tank Shocks as you can on a unit of Paladins is the only way to ensure they break and run, which was the goal. Therefore, I had to move clear across the board lengthwise to get there on the turn they needed to be tank shocked.

You also could not have moved the tank out of the way for the destructors to reach their target without Star Engines. You cannot fire Template weapons so that they touch your own models, so the tank had to move. That wouldn't have been possible without Star Engines as the best concentration of bunched up orks was right next to where the tank was. So moving it was the sensible thing to do.

I wouldn't in any way consider those Star Engines a waste of points.

@DNA
Well, that's an unusual list. I'm not too keen on the Rangers myself, but they might work in that list of yours?
- How are you playing your list?

I like the idea of having the HS Tanks equipped with Holo's + Stones. But aren't you sinking a great portion of your points into those two upgrades?

Regarding the Falcons, I lean more towards BlueDaggers setup; Several Falcons, all outfitted with 48" weaponry, with the GuideSeer/Eldrad embarked/nearby. But it seem you'd have to shape your list around those.

severedblue wrote:@powerguy even the DAVU squads are basic, 5 man avengers with no exarch, yes?

Weird, I could have sworn DAVU was a term in the Dakka Glossary. It means Dire Avengers as a Vehicle Upgrade, so yeah its a naked 5 man unit which is basically just there to make the vehicle scoring.

@Roadkill Zombie. Not that anyone uses them, but around here the ruling is that Star Engines can't be used for Tank Shocking or Ramming since Star Engines give you permission to make additional movement but not special actions like Tank Shock (which are all actions performed in the movement phase). Assuming you are playing a decent player they are going to realise that you have an extra 12" of movement available to contest and account for it, in practice it makes very little difference.

Roadkill Zombie: your summary of the uses of star engines is very concise, clear and complete. Any chance you'd be willing to turn it into an article for Dakka?

As someone who uses star engines and finds them really valuable for all the things you have listed, it would be really handy for me to have something to refer the star-engine-doubters to when they come out with all their "it's too expensive" and "you can't do that in the shooting phase" protests.

Powerguy wrote:
@Roadkill Zombie. Not that anyone uses them, but around here the ruling is that Star Engines can't be used for Tank Shocking or Ramming since Star Engines give you permission to make additional movement but not special actions like Tank Shock (which are all actions performed in the movement phase). Assuming you are playing a decent player they are going to realise that you have an extra 12" of movement available to contest and account for it, in practice it makes very little difference.

It looks like YMDC territory here, I'll have to check with tourney organisers whether they are following the INAT FAQ or something similar before fielding. Bin the GW Star Engines (although they look nice) and magnetic plasticard Star Engines ftw. Now thinking of how to make them....

I think we can all agree that vectored engines at 20 points a pop are totally worthless

As for the other upgrades its a lot more debatable and I don't think anybody will tell you that they aren't useful, what it comes down to is that its 25 points per tank to get spirit stones + star engines. And at some point, those +25 points on every tank in your army starts adding up fast, and starts cutting into the actual fire power you could be bringing (be they from war walkers, vypers or just additional serpents)

I've found that when I play Eldar I don't ever really have any problems running circles around opponents not named Dark Eldar, but I often find myself outgunned. So yes, spirit stones and star engines will make me even more mobile, but I find that putting those points into more guns has a larger effect on my army overall.

Actually akaean, if I played in a group with a Necron player using that difficult terrain guy I'd really want Vectored Engines. But even then I can't see myself paying such an absurd cost for those things just to be more comfortable against one opponent.

I have to agree with Roadkill Zombie. Almost every army has 24" movement on vehicles these days. Stormravens and Vendettas are super popular, as are DE. I'd love go have Star Engines on select vehicles. Were I playing games as large as his I think I'd be able to find points for these upgrades.

Billinator
How i play that list depends on my opponent mostly. Usually I play it as a dug-in fire base linked to the mobile wing (2 wave serpents and maybe a falcon depending on stuns) by the warp spiders, falcons and war walkers. Its greatest strengths are its shooting and versatility. The above formation is vs most opponents who set up across from me. Against a tricky outflanking/droppod army I'd probably start the Dragons in the Falcons and walk my Guardians into the Serpents, then infiltrate my Rangers and support them with the Harlies. It's the first list I've made that has more transports than I usually need.

As to your questions, yeah those tanks are really expensive but as everyone knows HoloFalcons can take a pounding. Putting Harlies with Fusion Pistols and a Farseer in them helps them draw even more fire. They also have so many useful guns that my opponents are hard-pressed to choose which to blow off when they inevitably do so. They usually do a lot of damage but I measure their worth also in the damage they take, cover they provide to my serpents, transportation they provide and the versatility they offer.

My Rangers...never worked for me at all before. They always got flamed or assaulted. Playing them with Falcons ready to pick them up in turn 3 or 4 has made them great objective snatchers, lets them shoot down a transport, MC or maybe pin a squad early on and allows me to field some guys I put a lot of love into converting and painting They haven't been dying and have scored me game-winning objectives, so for now they stay in hehe

Falcons should take the fields but dont bother with anything on the prism or spinners except maybe stones.

i agree with akaean and what was said about the points being too much for most of them imho. They do add up.

As for the jetseer`s, i`m just building my own, but remember you dont have to give them powers. Also dont ever go without embolden its priceless.

labmouse42 wrote:Dont really worry about modeling the spirit stones. There are so many stones on the vehicle, that its hard to determine if they are there or not. The same applies to vectored/star engines.

As strict a WYSIWYG player I am, I don't really care about modelling vehicle upgrades that much, however, WYSIWYG weapons are a must. As long as you are honest with your opponent about your upgrades (I actually can't tell what the holofields' thingamabob is meant to look like) and don't swap between upgrades as it suits you, don't really worry about the upgrades.

However, if it helps, the Wave Serpent's weapons swap easily enough and any star engine piece just slides onto the engines with ease, Vectored engines I hear are easily magnetised, as are Falcon weapons. As said by labmouse, there are so many bumps that can be painted as gems, (I painted all of mine ) you don't have to worry about Spirit Stones (is it that diamond thingy?).

Hey guys, I'm going to have to COMPLETELY agree that Star Engines are a must. I myself use them in my Eldar list and they have literally won me multiple games as well as kept my ass armor from being exposed after a tank shock.

Another example that happened twice, that won me both games. Both games were objectives and on turn 5, I had used my tanks to swarm an objective and contest it. My opponent had a couple hammers in the squad so I knew I had to keep moving or he was going to pop the hell out of my tank and take the objective back. The game went onto turn 6. Here I moved my tank 12 inches off the objective and then used the star engines to move right back onto the objective. This allowed me to continue to contest the objective while still moving 12 inches, forcing him to roll 6s. Needless to say, he lost the objective and the game.

Next instance the same thing happened, but this time I was using 3 tanks and I had circled the objective, keeping him 3 inches away. The game went on another turn and I used the same tactic with the star engines and landed right back onto the objective. This tactic creates a very effective wall of armor thats nearly impossible to break through if your forced to assault through it to get to an objective.

Star Engines at first glance do seem extremely over priced, and its hard to think of how, where, or why you would use them. It takes a good 3 solid games of using the star engines to really see how great they are and how invaluable they really are to a mech eldar force.

Not to mention if your coming in from reserve, that 24 inches from your table edge doesn't even get you anywhere near your target. With star engines, your right on top of your target so even if you get popped, you can still use your meltas...great success all around.

EldarN00b wrote:However, if it helps, the Wave Serpent's weapons swap easily enough and any star engine piece just slides onto the engines with ease, Vectored engines I hear are easily magnetised,(!!!!!) as are Falcon weapons. .

Lol pics / examples or it didn't happen.

The Star Engines slot into the engine housing; you have to dismantle the whole model to remove it.


Here is a thread on how difficult it is to get star engines modded onto tanks...
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=13685

I magnetized one of my Fire Prisms' Star Engines and it was really easy I just need some more magnets to finish up. I just glued together the Star Engines and cut off the part that sticks out. Then I glued the inner piece inside the tank and stuffed a magnet in the back. Again, I need magnets for the protruding part but I can finish that up whenever, really. If you forgot to glue the inner piece when assembling the chassis I don't think it would be hard to get a magnet in the back there, but I'll take a look at the link severedblue posted because I'd like to know what difficulties others have had.

Sweet man. Glad to hear it wasnt to tough for you. With the Prisms, I haven't run the star engines on them yet. I typically run them stock just to shave the points where I need them. I would however strongly advise running Star Engines on all of your wave serpents. That 36 inch threat range to capture or contest is amazing.

This thread is making my head spin. You've given some great examples on how to utilize the various upgrades (V-Eng excluded). On the contrary it makes sense to spend the upgrade points on more firepower aswell.

What i'm thinking is if this cooks down to the point limit of the list, or maybe the objective of the game?

You cant really count on knowing the objective of the game. Its best to kit your serpents out for an all around king of play style. Even in annihilation games, the upgrades come into play. Although, if you cant justify them in annihilation, 2/3rds of the time your going to be playing objective based games so thats more reason to always take them.

I just got done playing a game about an hour ago where once again, my star engines allowed me to make more plays on the board that I wouldn't have otherwise been able to make. The battle report will be up soon.