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This is just something I've been kinda pondering lately. In the 40k 'verse, what is the difference between psychic powers and sorcery? Assuming there even is any. And if there is a difference, what abilities would count as just psychic, and what'd count as sorcery?

I think primarily psyker powers are internal (e.g. you are born with it) and sorcery is external power (granted by the dark gods), weather it be through rituals and spells or gifts. Psykers can also use sorcery, and boost their own power by doing so.

Psykers are born with it and assess the powers of the warp, and sorcery is granted by a magical object

Semantics/education. They're identical.

Sorcery has an association with drawing from the powers of Chaos. It is also charactized by Daemonic pacts.

Harriticus wrote:Sorcery has an association with drawing from the powers of Chaos. It is also charactized by Daemonic pacts.

This is such a simple concept. Why does everyone else have so much trouble understanding?

Joey wrote:Semantics/education. They're identical.

This.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Joey wrote:Semantics/education. They're identical.

This.

They really aren't. Anyone can gain sorcerous powers. You have to be born a psyker.

riplikash wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Joey wrote:Semantics/education. They're identical.

This.

They really aren't. Anyone can gain sorcerous powers. You have to be born a psyker.

Who is gaining sorcerous powers on a whim? Are they not, in the end, just using psychic powers? It's all drawn from warp energy.

Psychic powers are genetic, sorcery is something anyone can do i they have the right (or wrong) knowledge.

Sorcery can even be done by machines.

Melissia wrote:Psychic powers are genetic, sorcery is something anyone can do i they have the right (or wrong) knowledge.

Sorcery can even be done by machines.

Examples?

Actually this depends entirely on who's using it. The average imperial citizen won' t know the difference.
Anyone not part of the Ordo Hereticus would know or care about the difference.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Joey wrote:Semantics/education. They're identical.

This.

Yup. Says so in the Grey Knights codex.

What would you call the human sacrifice of thousands of psykers in order to feed their energies to a corpse so that you can create a beacon in the Warp?

Sorcery...

spelling.....

And the ratio of tentacles/pointy horns to winged skulls and eagles motifs.

One races sorcery is anothers blessed psychic powers.

Me I believe in guns.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Psychic powers are genetic, sorcery is something anyone can do i they have the right (or wrong) knowledge.

Sorcery can even be done by machines.

Examples?

There's a specific example of this in the Dark Heresy books.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Psychic powers are genetic, sorcery is something anyone can do i they have the right (or wrong) knowledge.

Sorcery can even be done by machines.

Examples?

There's a specific example of this in the Dark Heresy books.

...go on....

As an aside, The Radical's Handbook has a definition of sorcery.

In brief: "even those with very limited or no psychic ability can become powerful Sorcerers if they have the will, intelligence, and stomach to pay the price for their dark lore"

Effectively, sorcery is where you make bargains with warp entities (especially daemons) for power, using ritual and sacrifice in place of psychic power.

Sorcery can be gained from pacts with Daemonic entities. You know, blood rituals, incantations, ect. Anyone with the knowledge of the proper things to say/do can make a pact with a Daemon. All you need to do is summon/commune with the Daemon.

Psykers draw on the raw stuff of the warp without needing Daemonic aid. Psykers are genetic, you must be born one.


They are absolutely, completely, and totally different things.

For the Imperium:
Some Psykers are allowed to exist if they are strong enough to resist the temptations of Daemons (I.E. Avoid become a sorcerer/possessed). Sorcerers are hunted mercilessly without exception.

Darn it, Ninjas.

Also, psykers can be sorcerers i they want to augment their power with sorcerous arts. Chaos Marine sorcerers are probably the best example of this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:...go on....

It's called the Logi Daemonis (logi maleficum; perfect words; warp-questions; etc). It's been mentioned by me (to you at least once) several times on this forum.

It is essentially an instruction to warp-beasts which, upon moving to its final configuration, will summon and bind a daemon to it. It can be anything from a hive city sized machination whose movements are created through construction crews, or a small object made of wicker and scrap metal the size of an altar.

No warpcraft or psychic power is necessary for the Logi Daemonis to work .

Matt Ward says they're the same. Matt Ward's word is law!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Matt Ward says they're the same. Matt Ward's word is law!

In the eyes of the law, an unsanctioned psyker and a sorcerer are basically the same, I think is what Ward intended to (but failed to) say.

Matt Ward isn't very good at wording his fluff even if it has interesting concepts behind it.

Psychic powers - it's me doing this magic

Sorcery- It's them doing this magic trick that i don't think they should have.

Runemagic - It's me being in denial about this being a magic trick... (Denial,. not just a river on Fenris..)

If the difference is that with one you are born with it and the other is it's bestowed upon you by extradimensional aliens then I guess that's the difference. Mechanically they work the same by chanelling warp energies into realspace. That is probably what he meant be semantics.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:If the difference is that with one you are born with it and the other is it's bestowed upon you by extradimensional aliens then I guess that's the difference. Mechanically they work the same by chanelling warp energies into realspace. That is probably what he meant be semantics.

Not necessarily bestowed upon so much as bargained for, ritualized, and sacrificed for. Bestowed makes it sound like they're getting it for free.

By "bestowed" I mean that a some point some lifeform from another dimension decides it.

Well in the gk codex theyre magical and the word sorcery is thrown all over so best get the fire pit ready for them thar heretics!

Psykers are born.
Sorcerors can be artificially created.
A psyker can be a sorceror but not vice versa.
That's my personal thoughts and unless there is a coex which specifically states otherwise I'm not changing...

I don't think that Codex: Grey Knights lumps them into the same bundle, just to note. Being that every single Grey Knight is a psyker. It would be pretty darn stupid...