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Discuss...

No

They look aweful

Considering in the old army book it talks about how an ogre can run down an armored horse, I really didn't want to see a form of "fast cavalry" in the ogre book. We already have things that are fast enough fluff wise.

It's just bleh. A lot of the new stuff is bleh.

Ever been hit by a semi-truck.... that about sums up what its like fighting mournfang

Johnny-Crass wrote:Ever been hit by a semi-truck.... that about sums up what its like fighting mournfang

Semi truck with maasive teeth, and a huge tub of lard riding it clubbing you to death

4 attacks from the ogre, 3 from the mount, plus stomp and impact attacks (and I think mournfangs have the orge charge rule don't they?) ...

And only 20 points more than a chaos knight. Granted they are only Ld 7, but low Ld seems to be an ogre thing.

Trondheim wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:Ever been hit by a semi-truck.... that about sums up what its like fighting mournfang

Semi truck with maasive teeth, and a huge tub of lard riding it clubbing you to death

I'll let you extrapolate what the driver looks like

- Salvage

I think Bloodcrushers of Khorne still do somewhat better and thus have the title for MC best in the game.

The Mourns have way more attacks but way less WS and I and such. If you are just running through a mass of Skaven Slaves, I think Mourns win off the charge. But against competent opponents (or each other) the Crushers come out ahead, even on cost.

Boss that is awesome.

Mournfangs are awesome. Need a tar pit unit to go away charge them with 4 fangs and the next turn you should have them almost all dead.

Necroshea wrote:It's just bleh. A lot of the new stuff is bleh.

I sort of agree with you, I wouldn't go so far as to describe them as bleh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DukeRustfield wrote:I think Bloodcrushers of Khorne still do somewhat better and thus have the title for MC best in the game.

The Mourns have way more attacks but way less WS and I and such. If you are just running through a mass of Skaven Slaves, I think Mourns win off the charge. But against competent opponents (or each other) the Crushers come out ahead, even on cost.

So Crushers can beat chaff, and that makes them the best MC?

Noisy_Marine wrote:4 attacks from the ogre, 3 from the mount, plus stomp and impact attacks (and I think mournfangs have the orge charge rule don't they?) ...

And only 20 points more than a chaos knight. Granted they are only Ld 7, but low Ld seems to be an ogre thing.

Lots of stuff wrong.

3 attacks from rider, 4 from mount, d3 impact hits, stomp. and only 20 points more then a chaos knight if they buy Ironfist and heavy armor.

marielle wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:I think Bloodcrushers of Khorne still do somewhat better and thus have the title for MC best in the game.

The Mourns have way more attacks but way less WS and I and such. If you are just running through a mass of Skaven Slaves, I think Mourns win off the charge. But against competent opponents (or each other) the Crushers come out ahead, even on cost.

So Crushers can beat chaff, and that makes them the best MC?

Necro Knights are probably my favorite MC, especially given their magical support. Bloodcrushers IMO need a herald to be really awesome, though they probably win for nicest models

- Salvage

I actually like the Mournfang models.


the GW pics made them look horrible and I didn't like them, but then I actually got my hands on them and they are actually pretty good.

I currently own 8 and have thus been given the big name "Bigus dickus"

I'll stick with Warhammer Forge Rhinox Riders, thank you very much. The reasoning that Rhinoxen are beasts of burden and therefore shouldn't be cavalry critters is flawed IMO

I use both

marielle wrote:So Crushers can beat chaff, and that makes them the best MC?

You didn't read right. Mournfang beat chaff. Crushers beat Mournfang. And it depends on what they are fighting and how (charge/asf/etc) as to who wins. But in general, I believe Khorne wins.

DukeRustfield wrote:

marielle wrote:So Crushers can beat chaff, and that makes them the best MC?

You didn't read right. Mournfang beat chaff. Crushers beat Mournfang. And it depends on what they are fighting and how (charge/asf/etc) as to who wins. But in general, I believe Khorne wins.

No I did read it right, I use Mournfangs as chaff - good chaff that can fight, but chaff non-the-less.

Thanks for starting a thread on this! Looks like we're mostly talking about appearance, but to re-post my comment from the YMDC thread about their performance:

--------------------------------------------------------------

Grey Templar wrote:Str3 T3 with 5+ or worse saves(and some 4s depending on the situation) are what Mournfangs kill. anything else is dicy for them to deal with.

GT, I'll agree with you that there are counters... but this statement just is Not true. I have an army full of S5/6 and T4, although with poor armor saves (my trolls have regen, of course, which ends up acting like the same thing as an excellent armor save if the Mournfangs don't have flaming). Mournfangs give me nightmares. I've faced them twice and both times they basically deleted my whole army without the help of the rest of the opponent's force.

Granted, I have mounstrous infantry, and I think that's just a mad matchup. Something like dwarf hammerers should be able to handle them, right? I thought so, too... until I read Red_Zeke's battle report where they deleted his decent-sized hammerer unit of the board in a single charge, along with a unit of bulls.

They are just plain the scariest unit I've faced. I'm sure there are counters, but I just don't know what they are yet. Perhaps we can start up a thread, it's a topic that needs discussing! (Already done here)

Mine get mulched by cannons regularly.

Grey Templar wrote:I currently own 8 and have thus been given the big name "Bigus dickus"

You run all of those at once, BD? Have seen a couple reports with 2-3x 4 'fangs, and they absolutely devastated the other army when the ogre player just chugged them down the center and didn't do any flanking nonsense. Honestly I'm thinking they need to be capped for tournament play, facing 12 at any points level is absolutely horrific (and only ~900 points!)

That said, I've only faced them once, and just 2x 2 ironfisters. In both cases I got the charge through good placement, devoured one pair with censer bearers and the other was ground down by 30 stormvermin + blade of corruption assassin

- Salvage

marielle wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:

marielle wrote:So Crushers can beat chaff, and that makes them the best MC?

You didn't read right. Mournfang beat chaff. Crushers beat Mournfang. And it depends on what they are fighting and how (charge/asf/etc) as to who wins. But in general, I believe Khorne wins.

No I did read it right, I use Mournfangs as chaff - good chaff that can fight, but chaff non-the-less.

Mournfangs are not only expensive, they are about the most efficient killing the Ogre army can conceivably put together. To use the same analogy, what is your wheat? Because using Mourns as throaway is dangerous, not only for cost, but for breaking/panic and such.

Boss Salvage wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:I currently own 8 and have thus been given the big name "Bigus dickus"

You run all of those at once, BD? Have seen a couple reports with 2-3x 4 'fangs, and they absolutely devastated the other army when the ogre player just chugged them down the center and didn't do any flanking nonsense. Honestly I'm thinking they need to be capped for tournament play, facing 12 at any points level is absolutely horrific (and only ~900 points!)

That said, I've only faced them once, and just 2x 2 ironfisters. In both cases I got the charge through good placement, devoured one pair with censer bearers and the other was ground down by 30 stormvermin + blade of corruption assassin

- Salvage

Its 2 units of 4 at 2500 points and they rock the house.

The funny thing is that I was looking through some of the harder comped enviroments and none would prevent this from happening. one event prohibited double leadbeltchers, yes leadbeltchers, and the hellheart, but it didn't say a thing about Mournfangs. No duplicate rares was a blanket statement.


I personally think that MFC arn't over powered in the ogre list. Ogres have trouble when they get bogged down in combat with tons of chaff units, Mournfangs are really good at crowd control so they can help keep the ogres from getting bogged down. They are also vulnerable to cannons and their large unit footprint can limit their maneuverability and the ability to get all their models into combat(especially on a flank charge)

If mournfangs were in any other army book they would definitely be over powered. as it is in the ogre book they are slightly undercosted by maybe 10 points, but considering that things like Hydras and Abombs are running around with deplorable under-costedness infinitly worse I think MFC are hardly something to be singled out. Once Hydras and Abombs are sorted out thn we can discuss Mournfangs.

I find mournfang crumble fast when they run into units that do the same thing as they do (Grail Knight Lance, Chosen, Trolls ect) But my marauders hate them soo much

DukeRustfield wrote:

marielle wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:

marielle wrote:So Crushers can beat chaff, and that makes them the best MC?

You didn't read right. Mournfang beat chaff. Crushers beat Mournfang. And it depends on what they are fighting and how (charge/asf/etc) as to who wins. But in general, I believe Khorne wins.

No I did read it right, I use Mournfangs as chaff - good chaff that can fight, but chaff non-the-less.

Mournfangs are not only expensive, they are about the most efficient killing the Ogre army can conceivably put together. To use the same analogy, what is your wheat? Because using Mourns as throaway is dangerous, not only for cost, but for breaking/panic and such.

The wheat is what it always has been, the Ogre infantry.

marielle wrote:The wheat is what it always has been, the Ogre infantry.

And so we see OK's problem: it's a fighty army that isn't very good at fighting. Ramping up impact hits and 8th edition adding stomps and fighting in ranks (especially this last part) have gone a long way towards alleviating this situation, but being WS3 with no possibility of a reroll - unless I missed something in the new book?? - still ties them to the dice, which is generally a horrific thing. Hence, by the way, why I run all ranked ironguts now, as they just have to get past the Hit step of probability, with Wound mostly taken care of

I guess Marielle if you meant 'ogre ironguts' by 'ogre infantry' and not 'ogre (bulls)' than I suppose I could agree a bit. But even they are WS3 sad pandas.

- Salvage

Boss Salvage wrote:

marielle wrote:The wheat is what it always has been, the Ogre infantry.

And so we see OK's problem: it's a fighty army that isn't very good at fighting. Ramping up impact hits and 8th edition adding stomps and fighting in ranks (especially this last part) have gone a long way towards alleviating this situation, but being WS3 with no possibility of a reroll - unless I missed something in the new book?? - still ties them to the dice, which is generally a horrific thing. Hence, by the way, why I run all ranked ironguts now, as they just have to get past the Hit step of probability, with Wound mostly taken care of

I guess Marielle if you meant 'ogre ironguts' by 'ogre infantry' and not 'ogre (bulls)' than I suppose I could agree a bit. But even they are WS3 sad pandas.

- Salvage

Indeed, but then if the book had followed the logic of the last book Ogres would have got 5 attacks, plus impact hits, plus stomps.... but let's not dwell on what might have been.

By Ogre infantry I mean Ironguts and Bulls - and possibly Leadbelchers and Maneaters, depending on the circumstance - since the key to the army, imo, is ensuring these units get the charge and don't get charged.

I'm happy that people are focusing on Mournfangs, Deathfist, Hellheart, Sniping Maneaters, Ironblasters, etc because while they are doing that they are not focusing on my blocks standing 13" away.

I don't know about the blocks- they get impacts, but otherwise aren't so different than my chaos ogres... which have been hugely lackluster in my recent games

I field mine with GWs, so more similar to Ironguts... but they take a lot of damage and can't always give enough back.

RiTides wrote:I don't know about the blocks- they get impacts, but otherwise aren't so different than my chaos ogres... which have been hugely lackluster in my recent games

I field mine with GWs, so more similar to Ironguts... but they take a lot of damage and can't always give enough back.

Different usage. Chaos Ogres are much slower than Mournfang with a slightly worse armor save and less attacks. My mournfangs are flank runners in units of 2-4 they take out artillery and then flank or rear charge when available. Chaos Ogres are direct, head on attackers and that's pretty much all they can do, much like Ogre bulls.

except the only thing Chaos Ogres have going for them is the ability to take Chaos Armor and marks. They have no impact hits, or potential for D3 impact hits, their impacts don't add their rank bonus to the str, and are fairly expensive when upgraded. And they are a Special Choice, why spend Special points on them when you can take Chosen?

Considering the new bar thats been set for Monsterous Infantry by the Ogre army book I would say that Chaos Ogres are overpriced for their output.