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If you run a unit of Saurus, a Slann, and ONE Scar Vet or some other hero, can the slann be in the 2nd rank if you only have 5 wide on your rank? (just looking at size of Slann base, it just wont fit in the front rank with full command, one hero. so wouldnt a regular saurus take arms to the front rank?)

C = Saurus Warrior Command
X = Saurus Warriors
Y = Scar Vet or hero
SP
SP = Slann

XCCCY
XSPXX
XSPXX
XXXXX
XXXXX

Can you run a unit like this?

I am not looking for if this would be practical or effective, just if you can legally do this.

If slann joins any other units than Temple Guard, he goes in the front ranks. That in their rules specifically under Guardians. The BRB has rules about models of different sizes. Basically he sits to the right front or the left front with a big target on his face holding a sign saying, "will cast spells for Temple Guard." See page 98 in the BRB. You basically can't cover him completely without TG which is an entirely special rule.

I would tend to disagree with Duke. With the rule as it is stated the slann (who occupies the same space as 4 saurus) would displace 4 saurus and put them in the back ranks, but in the situation mentioned by the OP this can be made impossible by the addition of a second hero/lord. This would force either your slann or the other hero/lord into one of the other ranks. Thus your slann would be able to be in the second rank still displacing 4 models.

Duke makes a good point, and honestly I would agree with him for the most part, based off of what I have found in the rule books. BUT I have heard too many people talking about running slann in second rank like the ETC Slann Star that consists of 5 scarvets on cold ones, and a slann in a unit of Saurus Warriors. I also see a lot of people running a Chaos hero or lord on horse in a unit of mauraders and it is not off to the side. I think that if you put your slann into a unit of say Skinks that he would be like this:

skinks = x
slann = SP

xxxxxSP
xxxxxSP
xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx


or what ever else.

I agree with the skink diagram. I feel that since the slann is of the same base size and would normally displace the 4 saurus warriors in the front as per BRB, but is unable to you would then be able to move him to the second rank. I could also see people argue that it is actually the slann being forced OUT of the unit by the other hero/lord, and then it would go on the side since it couldn't fit with its base size. I would side with the first, but would not use the tactic myself even if it was cost effective since it takes away from the TG, and I like TG.

I like TG but have none, I happen to have 100 of the old school saurus warriors, 50 old school skinks, and 2 old school slann, so ya I am trying to build lists with what I have (I also have a bunch of converted toy salamanders and stegadons..)

So keeping with the OP if you had 2 heros in the unit so a diagram like this:

X= saurus
C= command
Y=hero (Scar Vet I got the book in front of me now )
SP= Slann

YCCCY
XSPXX
XSPXX
XXXXX

Could you then do this and not have the arguement that the hero kicks the slann out of the unit.

My idea is this is like running ogres like so:

C=Comand
X=Reg Ogre
Y=BSB Bruiser
Z=Bruiser
S=Slaughtermaster

(not saying I would do this, but could this work?)

CCCYZZ
XXXSXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

or

CCC
XSX
XXX
XXX


Is this the same principle or am I totally off?

Mosk wrote:... the ETC Slann Star that consists of 5 scarvets on cold ones...

@Mosk, both your ogre examples are legal. Your lizard one is too, but it doesn't even need the second scar vet. (Though it does help for keep the Slann back then the champion gets killed).

It is the same general principle but the problem comes in where there is an intersection of various rules that aren't spelled out clearly to begin with. There still is no clear answer as to whether or not by using RAW you can simply reform a hero/lord into the second rank. All that aside the problem comes in at the point where the slaan usually displaces 4 saurus and is inside the unit, but then what happens if this is impossible? The two answers I see are that the slann can move back as other heroes and lords can and simply displace later ranks of models, and the other is that the slaan then has a base size that now cannot fit in the unit and is forced to sit next to it. I tend towards the first, but I can easily see the second being chosen by tourney judges and the like.

If you don't play tourneys, and just play with a local group I would explain your reading of the rules to them and see if they agree, and if they don't then see if they can come up with a real reason why the rules should be read one way vs the other. Or you could convert some saurus into TG, it would take time but would give you a better result either way (and wouldn't cost the $100 of 2 boxes of TG).

It is a bit more confusing than I first thought.

There are a few points.

Slann specifically has a rule that says if he's not in TG, he "goes in the front ranks as normal." The army book overrides the BRB. Though it also says, "as normal," which kind of makes it seem like it's repeating the BRB (whichever version that was when it was written), which states characters go in the front row, anyway.

Then the different-sized bases section says that characters go in the front row displacing others. And it shows an example of a guy who is 2x2 in the front ran of a 5 wide.

And of course all characters have to go in the first row except for command, with spill-over going to 2nd.

So the Army book and the BRB section on different bases say stick them in the front.

The BRB says, stick them in the front if you can. I think the fact that temple guard has all these rules around it give it a special case. In addition, a whole bunch of his rules might be in jeopardy, having unubstructed line of sight, being able to cast magic missiles even if in combat, etc. Give them some funny hats or something, but making some TG I think is really worthwhile.

Yes, you can maneuver slaughtermasters and other such characters like that. That's just basic BRB rules. But Slann have their own rules.

When not in TG he is a normal character (hence the "as normal" in his rules), so if he cannot fit in the fron rank he does go to the back.
I've used it its an ok trick but gets real fiddly once champions start popping, in the end unless you spring for a second vet you only gain one combat phase of protection.

As above.

He can fit within the unit as his base is an exact multiple, so will NEVER be placed to the side.

He goes on the front rank "as normal", meaning if he cannot fit he would go on the second rank as is normal.

Red_Zeke wrote:

Mosk wrote:... the ETC Slann Star that consists of 5 scarvets on cold ones...

Oh someone brought up the savage beast of rapeface list.
Loved hearing bout that one really showed those ETC snobs their little sistem is no better than GW's.

HoverBoy wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:

Mosk wrote:... the ETC Slann Star that consists of 5 scarvets on cold ones...

Oh someone brought up the savage beast of rapeface list.
Loved hearing bout that one really showed those ETC snobs their little sistem is no better than GW's.

what a strange interpretation... to each his own I guess.

MakeH wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:

Mosk wrote:... the ETC Slann Star that consists of 5 scarvets on cold ones...

Oh someone brought up the savage beast of rapeface list.
Loved hearing bout that one really showed those ETC snobs their little sistem is no better than GW's.

what a strange interpretation... to each his own I guess.

For the benefit of lurkers on lunch-breaks with no lizardman experience or motivation to google-fu, can someone post the general make-up of said list?

I'll pm you something soonish

I'm just saying no man has gotten it perfect yet, and i will continue to gnaw on them untill they allow me to run my stampede