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Ok, so I was thinking of taking the Duke in an offshoot version of my wych army. It says he has to be deployed with a squad of Trueborn.
Now I have a Squad of 4 Trueborn in a Venom in which he'll fit. Now here is the real question, as a dedicated transport for the the Trueborn,
does the venom also get the (3+) poison upgrade to its splinter cannons?

No.
The Venom, while a dedicated transport, is still a different unit.

Ok, Thanks!

You also don't "have" to deploy him with trueborn. You only do so if you want his poison rule. You can field him solo you just don't apply his serpents venom rule

Sorry but that's wrong. If you have a squad of Trueborn then you must deploy the Duke with them. However if you don't have a squad of Trueborn you can still field the Duke.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If there is a unit of Warriors or Trueborn in the army he MUST be deployed with one of them.

Disagree. The deployment restriction is only if you wish to apply the special poison uggrade rule. If you don't deploy him in warrior/tb unit that rule does not apply, but he can be deployed in other manners. Just without his poison rule.

That would be wrong - you can't just ignore his rule. He picks a unit of warriors or trueborn and the duke MUST be deployed with this unit. That unit then gets the 3+ poison.

The FAQ also mentions this...

Q: What happens if your force contains Duke Sliscus but
does not contain any Kabalite Warriors or Kabalite
Trueborn, as the Serpentʼs Venom special rule says he
must deployed with one of those units? (p51)
A: He will deploy like any other independent character.

As Massaen correctly points out, you can't ignore a rule just because it suits your purposes. Sliscus always has "The Serpent's Venom" special rule which clearly states the following:

Pick a unit of Kabalite Warriors or a unit of Kabalite Trueborn at the beginning of the game. Sliscus must be deployed with this unit.

In order for it to work like you want, it would need to be worded "If Sliscus chooses to deploy..." but its not. You don't have a choice in the matter. He MUST be deployed with the chosen squad if its in the army.

You also can't pick and choose a single sentence out of the entire rule, and take it at face value out of context. If he was required to deploy with trueborn or warriors that restriction would be its own rule, not the poison rule. And the FAQ supports he is his own IC as normal and does not specifically state he MUST deploy with trueborn, only that he deploys as normal if none exist. It's not definitive either way.

Reading his entire entry to me indicates he can deploy like any IC, but if he wishes to apply his venom rule he must join a unit of tb/warrior. Otherwise the ability is wasted. Joining the unit is required for the poison, not his deployment.

Darth - no, you have to deploy him with Warriors / TB, if you have them, the FAQ answers the "i've taken him with no warriors or TB in the army, and he MUST deploy with warriors or TB, so what do I do" question

If you HVAE warriors or TB, he MUST deploy with them

Thus why I take a unit of warriors; they benefit from his 3+ poison more than some trueborn with blasters Plus 2d6 for drugs is too good to pass up for a wych cult...

yeah, I was going to put him in with a Squad of 4 TB with 2 S.C.'s in venom, but I need as much anti-tank as I can get so I have to run the Blaster Boat.

DarthSpader wrote:You also can't pick and choose a single sentence out of the entire rule, and take it at face value out of context. If he was required to deploy with trueborn or warriors that restriction would be its own rule, not the poison rule.

Blatantly and utterly false. In no way does the effect of the rule change the fact that he must deploy with them. Nor is there any support for your claims that it would have to be a separate rule. The fact remains that you're picking and choosing the rules to suit your purposes with no support to do so.

I suspect, especially given the FAQ, that the rule was intended to mean you must deploy Sliscus with warriors/trueborn only if you want them to benefit from the better poison. Unfortunately, it's worded pretty awkwardly. RAW, I read it like Ghaz does-if you have warriors/trueborn, he has to deploy with them.


If you're willing to commit a unit of trueborn to sliver weapons, they're pretty impressive with Sliscus added. 2 splinter cannons and 7 shardcarbines out of a raider is 33 shots if you don't move, 29 if you do-hitting 2/3 of the time and wounding 2/3 of the time.

Ordznik wrote:I suspect, especially given the FAQ, that the rule was intended to mean you must deploy Sliscus with warriors/trueborn only if you want them to benefit from the better poison.

The FAQ does not support your claims. If anything it supports the actual wording of the rules as the author's intent by telling you that you can use Sliscus in your army if you don't have a Warrior or Trueborn unit instead of simply saying he doesn't have to be deployed with a unit of Warriors or Trueborn.

Massaen wrote:That would be wrong - you can't just ignore his rule. He picks a unit of warriors or trueborn and the duke MUST be deployed with this unit. That unit then gets the 3+ poison.

The FAQ also mentions this...

Q: What happens if your force contains Duke Sliscus but
does not contain any Kabalite Warriors or Kabalite
Trueborn, as the Serpentʼs Venom special rule says he
must deployed with one of those units? (p51)
A: He will deploy like any other independent character.

Using this to prove logically that he must deploy with the unit:

If your army DOES NOT contain warriors/trueborn, he deploys like any other independent character.

which implies:

If your army DOES contain warriors/trueborn, he deploys in a special way unlike any other independent character.

That special way is the restriction listed in the Serpent's Venom rule. Not really any room for argument here, he MUST deploy with either Trueborn or Warriors, if you have any.

Your also forgetting a very important sentence in the rule.... the first one. The first sentence tells you to pick a unit of Kabalite Warriors or a unit of Kabalite Trueborn at the beginning of the game.

The second sentence then states: Sliscus must be deployed with this unit.

All the third sentence tells you is what happens to the unit you picked that the Duke must deploy with. Its pretty cut and dried so I dont see what the argument is about.

right but that sentance of "pick a unit of trueborn or warriors" is under the heading "the serpents venom" the way its worded... pick x, you must deploy with x, x gets y", seems to me that in order to get "y" you follow the deployment. if you dont want to use "y" then deploy how you see fit as an IC.

other things in the codex, such as drazhar specfically state deployment restrictions. "drazhar can only join incubi". or vects dias, "if you take the dias you must embark vect and 9 other models" and so on. if the duke REALLY required him to be deployed with warriors or trueborn, it would say so under its own heading, in a rule sepearte from upgrading his poison.

i realize this is done to death but inho there is not sufficiant RAW to claim he MUST deploy with warriors or trueborn if they exist in your army. the fact he is an IC, and the deployment restriction is under a specfic poison upgrade rule, especially when his other army wide rules have no restriction, its simply, all drug users get 2d6 and pick, and all raiders/ravagers can deepstrike, it seems unlikley given the flavour and the style that he would be required to deploy as restricted. even the FAQ, while not specfically adressing the issue mentions he can deploy as a normal IC.

however there is also not enough to support the other side either. the wording is really off, and i can see the opposing viewpoint. i dont agree with it, and our local group does not either. does that make us right? who the gee-dub knows...but either way im done with this. agree with me or not, but im not wasting any more effort on an internet argument. especially when i have christmas rum to drink and a mother in law to avoid.

Darth - there is no optional part to that rule. You MUST deploy with them if you have any available.

The RAW is very clear, and the FAQ tells you what to do when you dont have any warriors - then, and only then, do you get to treat him as any other IC

Special rules are not optional unless they say they are.

"Pick a unit of..." is a command.
As such the rules breaks down like this.

1. Have Sliscus in army
2. select warrior or TB squad
3. deploy sliscus with said squad
4. squad gets 3+ poison

always, unless you have no warriors or tb

that is all

Agreed. You must deploy him with a unit of warriors or Trueborn. If, and only if, you have not included any in your army, are you allowed to deploy him elsewhere, per the FAQ.