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hellspawn22 wrote:I'm going to side with 4M2A, the Emperor isn't fueled by human emotions or worship. If he was, I don't think he would go around telling everyone that religion is bad and they shouldn't worship him.

But maybe that's what he feared-becoming too powerful. If you knew that religion could give you the power to destroy planets with the flick of the wrist I bet you'd be pretty worried.

I guess, put like that, maybe. But considering the threats of the galaxy, I think I would need them.

Strong imperial faith does effect the warp but not in creating gods. It has a similar effect to ork psychic powers. All humans have psychic ability it's just very weak and in most people it's subconscious- groups of humans with strong enough belief act like a single psyker. An example is the living saints they become a focus for all the local psychic energy and it gives trhem special abilities. This effect is humans bending the warp rather than leaving an imprint on it which is what the chaos gods are.

hellspawn22 wrote:I'm going to side with 4M2A, the Emperor isn't fueled by human emotions or worship. If he was, I don't think he would go around telling everyone that religion is bad and they shouldn't worship him.

He wanted that while he was alive, probably didn't plan on almost dying. By killing religion and getting around using warp based technology humanity would almost be able to cut itself off from chaos, starving it of most of it's food.

hellspawn22 wrote:Well, as long as the Imperium is around, so will Chaos. In fact, Chaos will likely outlive the Imperium. But that doesn't mean the Imperium has to fail! I for one, will stand by the IoM until the end.

We to brother, we to....

If the Emporer came back, I'm pretty sure the High Lords would try to have him executed. Regardless of whether they know who he actually is, they're still corrupt, power-crazed people. If you had unlimited wealth and controlled one of the largest organisations in the galaxy, would you be willing to give it all up to some gold dude with a fancy sword?

TrollPie wrote:If the Emporer came back, I'm pretty sure the High Lords would try to have him executed. Regardless of whether they know who he actually is, they're still corrupt, power-crazed people. If you had unlimited wealth and controlled one of the largest organisations in the galaxy, would you be willing to give it all up to some gold dude with a fancy sword?

That gold dude with a fancy sword can likely read their minds and make their heads explode Wealth isn't doing much to heal that

TrollPie wrote:If the Emporer came back, I'm pretty sure the High Lords would try to have him executed. Regardless of whether they know who he actually is, they're still corrupt, power-crazed people. If you had unlimited wealth and controlled one of the largest organisations in the galaxy, would you be willing to give it all up to some gold dude with a fancy sword?

The Emperor could apparently mentally attack the entire Word Bearers Legion when he was walking around, the second largest Legion at the time.

He would have the High Lords dancing to his tune with but a thought.

Not really. The high lords themselves are no match for the emperor but all the armies surrounding terra certainly are. Any attempts to reach terra by anyone will just draw more troops. If he oppenly opposes the high lords he will be fighing not only the majority of imperial forces but the adeptus mechanicus. It may be easy to find humans willing to support him but turning forge worlds isn't going to be so easy and without them his armies will be unable to fight.

People forget, once evn one of the highlords removes support the IoM grinds to a halt. Remove all of them and it's almost impossible to do anything.

4M2A wrote:Not really. The high lords themselves are no match for the emperor but all the armies surrounding terra certainly are. Any attempts to reach terra by anyone will just draw more troops.

Assuming the Emperor does not already control every commanding officer in the Sol system mentally when he comes back.

Assuming he does.

He is poweful, but not that powerful. Just look at the figures for the amount or troops guarding that system. You just have to look at the HH books to see that the imperial propaganda massively overstates his power. If he could mind control on that scale the siege of terra would never have happened, he would have just made regiments of traitors kill each other. Even if he controlled all the troops the highlords could easily shut down travel for all troops, including their own. It's no good having all those troops if you can't transport soldiers, food or supplies.

4M2A wrote:He is poweful, but not that powerful. Just look at the figures for the amount or troops guarding that system. You just have to look at the HH books to see that the imperial propaganda massively overstates his power. If he could mind control on that scale the siege of terra would never have happened, he would have just made regiments of traitors kill each other. Even if he controlled all the troops the highlords could easily shut down travel for all troops, including their own. It's no good having all those troops if you can't transport soldiers, food or supplies.

Like I said, in The First Heretic, he apparently was able to affect the entire Word Bearers Legion (Admittedly, not read this book, have only heard of this).

I know he is not as powerful as Imperial Propaganda asserts, as I said, I would wager a sizable amount of Titans would be a bit too much for him to handle.

But he could easily control the High Lords, which is effectively control of the Imperium.

Ok, let us answer the question: the overall answer is good win the battle but evil will win the war ( since it is the beginning of the "end times" ). Unless GW add someone or something that will tip the balance of things...

Brother Coa wrote:Ok, let us answer the question: the overall answer is good win the battle but evil will win the war ( since it is the beginning of the "end times" ). Unless GW add someone or something that will tip the balance of things...

"Good" loses a lot.

Read the evil codices to see when.

And any time Exterminatus is done, the Imperium has lost.

The Eldar effectively lost Iyanden, sure, they blunted part of Kraken, but the losses to the overall TYranid war effort is minimal, the loss of about two Craftworlds is not good for the Eldar.

I named other times evil won, but am too lazy to recall them.

The Imperium wins more than most, due to popularity and the fact that it legitimately is the most powerful unified fighting force in the material galaxy at the moment, but it is being assailed from all sides, it's slowing dying.

And I think that is the overarching theme of the WH40k universe. Yes, there are bright spots, but everything else is grimdark and getting worse.

I agree, there are victories but they are getting smaller and less often. If you look at it on a personal scale there are lots of victories for the imperuim, it's just at a larger scale that it starts to look bad.

Wow. We actually ended up answering the question, after getting so far off topic... I am impressed with myself.

4M2A wrote:It may be easy to find humans willing to support him but turning forge worlds isn't going to be so easy and without them his armies will be unable to fight.

In one of the Horus Heresy books (possibly Mechancium) doesn't it say that

If He is the one that grants Living Saints their power, it's going to pretty difficult to dispute that He's the Emperor. Not to mention the Custodes would presumably follow his lead.

People forget, once evn one of the highlords removes support the IoM grinds to a halt. Remove all of them and it's almost impossible to do anything.

Except for the leader of the assassins. He's important, but not to the functioning of the Imperium.

Void__Dragon wrote:I would wager a sizable amount of Titans would be a bit too much for him to handle.

If the Emperor is an Alpha-Plus level Psyker (or of equivalent power), then theoretically there is no physical force that could stop Him considering the incredible willpower attributed to Him. Or at least, that's what Lexicanum tells me (about Alpha-Plus level Psykers, that is). Regardless, it shouldn't be difficult for the Emperor to simply avoid or hide from the Titans.

Well, we recently reached the conclusion that regardless, we're doomed.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:If the Emperor is an Alpha-Plus level Psyker (or of equivalent power), then theoretically there is no physical force that could stop Him considering the incredible willpower attributed to Him. Or at least, that's what Lexicanum tells me (about Alpha-Plus level Psykers, that is). Regardless, it shouldn't be difficult for the Emperor to simply avoid or hide from the Titans.

Magnus the Red, the most powerful psyker short of the Emperor, had trouble with two Eldar Titans. Now, granted, these Titans were Daemonically possessed, and each easily dwarfed a Warlord, and he was able to pretty handily deflect their attacks and then destroy one, but he was drained in doing so.

Now, the Emperor is more powerful than Magnus, but Magnus himself is well above the norm for an Alpha-Plus level psyker, being second to the Emperor himself. So, the Emperor would at least have trouble with a sizeable group of Imperator Titans.

He was not the invincible god the Imperium claims him to be, not in the Materium anyway.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

4M2A wrote:It may be easy to find humans willing to support him but turning forge worlds isn't going to be so easy and without them his armies will be unable to fight.

In one of the Horus Heresy books (possibly Mechancium) doesn't it say that

Spoiler:

the Emperor can repair machines with a touch? If so, He'll likely be capable of converting the Mechancium fairly easily.

If He is the one that grants Living Saints their power, it's going to pretty difficult to dispute that He's the Emperor. Not to mention the Custodes would presumably follow his lead.

For some reason everyone here is assuming that the High Lords themselves aren't loyal to the Emperor. Sure, they run the Imperium. But they were selected by Him (well, the originals if you believe the GK codex).

Sure, we've had our crazies in power. The Insane High Lord Vandire and the Master of Assassins at one point. But why is there this automatic assumption that the High Lords, subjects of the Emperor as well, would instantly turn upon the one that they hold to be a God? Even if there were those that could even consider such blasphemy, it wouldn't be universal on the Council, and it would be an even tougher sell to the forces around Terra.

People forget, once evn one of the highlords removes support the IoM grinds to a halt. Remove all of them and it's almost impossible to do anything.

Except for the leader of the assassins. He's important, but not to the functioning of the Imperium.

The death of the High Lords would be a severe blow, but ultimately they are replaceable and probably already have likely sucessors waiting in the wings.

Anyone read the Word Bearers novels?
those are good examples

Void__Dragon wrote:
Now, the Emperor is more powerful than Magnus, but Magnus himself is well above the norm for an Alpha-Plus level psyker, being second to the Emperor himself. So, the Emperor would at least have trouble with a sizeable group of Imperator Titans.

Yet, when he was being attacked by a sizable group of titans, he in fact, did nothing.

Don't spread Emperor-omnipotence propaganda, there's no evidence for it.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
Now, the Emperor is more powerful than Magnus, but Magnus himself is well above the norm for an Alpha-Plus level psyker, being second to the Emperor himself. So, the Emperor would at least have trouble with a sizeable group of Imperator Titans.

Yet, when he was being attacked by a sizable group of titans, he in fact, did nothing.

Don't spread Emperor-omnipotence propaganda, there's no evidence for it.

I didn't say he was omnipotent, and in fact admitted that his power is overrated.

But to deny the fact that he is powerful is foolish.

The Ruinous Powers feared him for a reason.

I try to refrain from Heresy, but powerful as the God-Emperor is, his armies are even greater. If he were deemed a threat for whatever reason, I think we would crush him. I mean, if he had trouble with a couple of titans, then what about several Titan legions plus dozens of regiments and an entire chapter of space marines? That strength isn't all that hard to muster. I think that his best bet would be to not make an enemy of the High Lords. I would hope that they would remain faithful to Him, but there's no guarantee.

I think he would have to spend many decades, if not centuries, carefully maneuvering. Seeing as he is immortal, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, but there is something of a sense of urgency. Who knows what his return might set off? A massive psychic burst calling in more hivefleets? An upsurge of warpstorms? The Astropaths suffering a collective head-'splosion?

the high lords are cowards and power-hungry, they will not LIKE giving control to the emperor, but they will when the custodes come knocking.

besides, they would be too dazed and shocked to do jack. imagine the mythical being you have believed to be a god for your whole life showing up on your doorstep?

they would capitulate easily.

it would be ironic if the emperor awakening or being reborn as the star child or resurrecting to his great crusade form caused such a disturbance that the impeirums enemies closed in for the kill, to find a unified and faith-driven imperium ready for them.

In the GK codex, in the entry for an inmortal hero they have (don't remember his name, sorry :S) it says that he has lived so much he knows Chaos will eventually win and humanity will be dammed, no matter what he or his brothers fight.

The custodes aren't a threat either. Custodes are guards,0 not an soldiers. Individualy they are more powerful than SMs but they aren't trained to fight a war. A few SM chapters would wipe out the Adeptus Custodes without difficulty.

You guys are all assuming he comes out and says "Oh look I'm the Emperor" on some nameless planet across the galaxy where their are armies in his way. The man is not only the most powerful, but the smartest and charismatic man ever born. Sure he made mistakes, but he did better than anyone ever. He would hardly announce his rebirth until he was already on terra surrounded by his supporters namely the custodes and astartes.

We considered that, and then decided that it would make for a better and longer conversation to assume everyone turned against him.