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yeah your right longstrike is an obviously better option it's just 45 points seems like a lot.

I'll give it a go.
I thought it was only the weapon that fired that couldn't fire, rather than the model.

INTERCEPTOR
Thisweapon has been calibrated to target
incoming drop troops, teleporting assault
squads and other unlooked-for enemies.
At the end of the enemy Movement
phase, a weapon with the Interceptor
special rule can be fired at any one unit
that has arrived from reserve within its
range and line of sight. If this rule is
used, the weapon cannot be fired in the
next turn, but the firing model can shoot
a different weapon if it has one.
If a weapon has both the Interceptor
and Skyfire special rules, it uses its full
Ballistic Skill against all targets (unless it
is firing Snap Shots).

Akiasura wrote:
You can take multiple vendettas per fast attack choice

"Spamming" a unit typically refers to taking the maximum number of said unit. Furthermore, taking 3 (and, arguably, 2) Vendettas in a single FOC slot is inefficient, nevermind part of an "overpowered" list. I'm left wondering if you comprehend the terms you're using.

Not to use a cliche fallacy, but you just text book straw manned me.

Like "spamming" and "overpowered," it's clear you don't know what this term means either.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Naw wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
its a good buff, but nothing special compared to sorcerers, farseers and Liberians. just going differently about it.

You can't use that as a defence, as Tau can BB Eldar and benefit in a huge way.

Tau are too good because they can choose not to play tau....hilarious.

There, I helped you. Now, as you can have Farseer buff your guys it's no good complaining about other psykers. Tau don't have a weakness there.

Maybe the fault isn't in the tau codex at all, and just all the kids who jumped the bandwagon are cheating/idiots who can't understand the basics of their own rules?

Yes, that must be it, them cheating kids are what make the 6th edition Tau codex very powerful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

I'd lose the devilfish. You can do so much with those points.

Probably chuck in a Ethereal at least.

That list and these suggestions illustrate one point very well. No need to play for objectives if you can table your opponent.

Really? How in the world is that list going to table the opponent. I guess it goes back to people not playing with terrain. If that is the case then yes Tau could easily table the opponent in the barren landscape that they are fighting in.

Naw wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

I'd lose the devilfish. You can do so much with those points.

Probably chuck in a Ethereal at least.

That list and these suggestions illustrate one point very well. No need to play for objectives if you can table your opponent.

Exsqueese me?

How is suggesting one of the most synergistic model and a slightly overpriced but still good tank commander ignore objectives?

Edited for fail quotes

Just in case anyone is wondering I have not played the game against my Tau opponent yet- that will probably happen on either Friday or Saturday.

I do have a rules clarification for you Tau players. Can you explain how Target Locks work exactly?

Since the Markerlight shenanigans my buddy pulled I am not 100% positive he is playing something else correctly either.

Almost every game he takes the same HQ setup- A crisis Commander with a Target Lock, Irridium armor, missile pods.

He attaches this to 3 other Crisis Suits, all with the same weapon systems.

He claimed that this unit can fire at as many targets per suit as he wants because of the upgrade the commander grants them. This in turn allowed him to DS, split fire at whatever he wants, ignore cover, or give Tank Hunter/MC Hunter. Needless to say any back field tanks never survive against this, and I don't exactly have the luxury of keeping units back to protect them when I need to get in his face ASAP.

Is he being a douche again?

I really should read the book.

Boniface wrote:

Backfire wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous.

I like Tau, and the current Codex is a horrible adomination to the game.

I simply don't get this. You claim to like Tau and follow up with it's a horrible abomination.

Liking Tau and liking present Codex are two separate issues. Current Codex is in my opinion boring, with one-dimensional strategy, poorly models supposed Tau way of war or how their equipment is meant to work.

Um yeah no, target lock does not work that way at all... Let me just put it this way so I am not breaking any rules, Have him prove to you that target lock works that way.

I take that back I just re-read your post. (READERS ARE LEADERS).

If the other suits are taking Target Lock as well then yes he is not doing any shenanigans. Keep in mind that each model can only fire at one target at a time though.

Flying Toaster wrote:
Um yeah no, target lock does not work that way at all... Let me just put it this way so I am not breaking any rules, Have him prove to you that target lock works that way.

I take that back I just re-read your post. (READERS ARE LEADERS).

If the other suits are taking Target Lock as well then yes he is not doing any shenanigans. Keep in mind that each model can only fire at one target at a time though.

Eh.. even so.. this still seems dumb. It's impossible for me to run any sort of backfield tank support with this thing zooming around. This squad on average with twin-linked and Tank Hunter will kill any AV12 vehicle in a round. Unfortunate, since most of my tanks fall in this category (or he just gets side shots on my preds)

How does this squad have Tank Hunter? Sorry but I think I have to be missing something.

XenosTerminus wrote:
Eh.. even so.. this still seems dumb. It's impossible for me to run any sort of backfield tank support with this thing zooming around. This squad on average with twin-linked and Tank Hunter will kill any AV12 vehicle in a round. Unfortunate, since most of my tanks fall in this category (or he just gets side shots on my preds)

It can't go both ways. If your opponent is splitting fire then two "autocannons" per tank isn't killing much. If your opponent focuses the whole squad on a single target their chances of a kill go up, but they aren't shooting several units simultaneously anymore and you can return fire with the survivors and kill the crisis suits.

And really, compared to things like podding combi-melta sternguard (10-man squad splitting on arrival to hit two targets) which have a much higher chance of killing a tank in a single shot the crisis suits are pretty weak.

Flying Toaster wrote:
How does this squad have Tank Hunter? Sorry but I think I have to be missing something.

No idea. He said the commander grants either Tank Hunter or Monster Hunter to the squad. So he basically deep strikes, chooses what he wants dead, and fires a metric ton of missiles that all re-roll. It's not unusual for this squad to make back it's points 3fold.

I would normally counter it with Rockets/Lascannons, but since he deep strikes the unit he usually has enough time to kill my devs or outlets for this sort of firepower. That, and the 2+ lets him tank rockets.

XenosTerminus wrote:
Just in case anyone is wondering I have not played the game against my Tau opponent yet- that will probably happen on either Friday or Saturday.

I do have a rules clarification for you Tau players. Can you explain how Target Locks work exactly?

Since the Markerlight shenanigans my buddy pulled I am not 100% positive he is playing something else correctly either.

Almost every game he takes the same HQ setup- A crisis Commander with a Target Lock, Irridium armor, missile pods.

He attaches this to 3 other Crisis Suits, all with the same weapon systems.

He claimed that this unit can fire at as many targets per suit as he wants because of the upgrade the commander grants them. This in turn allowed him to DS, split fire at whatever he wants, ignore cover, or give Tank Hunter/MC Hunter. Needless to say any back field tanks never survive against this, and I don't exactly have the luxury of keeping units back to protect them when I need to get in his face ASAP.

Is he being a douche again?

I really should read the book.

I say he's cheating. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt that every suit was equipped with a target lock to split fire, his Commander would've needed the Purdetide Engram Chip and the Multi-Spectrum Scanner to give the USRs and ignore cover. In doing so, his commander would also have to forfeit his shooting. Did he say how he was removing your cover saves? Markerlights or a fancy piece of wargear?

Only the Commander was ignoring saves, which he claimed were AP4. Naturally my Scouts didn't like this.

He had a turn where he deep struck, split fire at 4 targets, took out 3 vehicles and a scout squad. 4 units in a turn.

If he is doing something incorrectly, well I will have to have a talk to him again. If not... this is another reason I hate the book. That's just stupid.

XenosTerminus wrote:
Only the Commander was ignoring saves, which he claimed were AP4. Naturally my Scouts didn't like this.

He had a turn where he deep struck, split fire at 4 targets, took out 3 vehicles and a scout squad. 4 units in a turn.

If he is doing something incorrectly, well I will have to have a talk to him again. If not... this is another reason I hate the book. That's just stupid.

He would have to be using the "Puretide Engram Neurochip"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have to say no wonder you don't like Tau. Your opponent or buddy as you put it has pretty much incorrectly understood major parts of the army and ran with it. I would be angry as well.

Actually

Tank/monster hunter applies to the whole unit not the model.
(chip gives commander tank hunter > a unit with a model with tanker hunter gives rerolls to pen ect ect)

anyway it never hurts to ask. if it sounds ridiculous just ask to see the book and read it your self. also should ask to see his army list as well

 Desubot wrote:
Actually

Tank/monster hunter applies to the whole unit not the model.
(chip gives commander tank hunter > a unit with a model with tanker hunter gives rerolls to pen ect ect)

anyway it never hurts to ask. if it sounds ridiculous just ask to see the book and read it your self. also should ask to see his army list as well

Your right, I wasn't thinking it through... it grants the special rule and the special rule applies to all. Thanks for pointing that out.

XenosTerminus wrote:
He had a turn where he deep struck, split fire at 4 targets, took out 3 vehicles and a scout squad. 4 units in a turn.

Not cheating, but getting very lucky. The squad of four can split fire against four different targets, but not while using the upgrade that makes them twin-linked and ignore cover (since you have to forfeit that model's shooting to use them, leaving only three shooting models). So you're shooting at four different targets, but not very effectively. You shouldn't be losing three vehicles and a scout squad to two BS 3 "autocannons" each, so you just had bad luck. And you can't judge game balance based on bad luck.

But really this just confirms what we've been saying previously: you don't understand the Tau codex very well, so don't complain about how "overpowered" it is until you've read it and understood it.

Really? I find a single darkstrider mounted devilfish be quite effective .

As for "drop pod marines being the most common", am I playing the only local meta where power armor is the thing you are LEAST likely to face?

Actually something sounds off.
He didnt split fire each individual gun right?

because otherwise it would be impossible for 1 model to kill an entire scout squad (5) with a single or even double missile pod (4)

 BoomWolf wrote:
Really? I find a single darkstrider mounted devilfish be quite effective .

As for "drop pod marines being the most common", am I playing the only local meta where power armor is the thing you are LEAST likely to face?

No.

My meta is almost entirely xenos.

To the point where i'm thinking of picking up SM to ally with my Tau just for some variety, or GK's as a standalone army.


On topic.... yes Tau are powerful, but i'm just surprised how far this thread has gone on the onus of the OP that is essentially "Was taking an unoptimized disorganized list against a cutthroat tourney Tau player who was abusing / cheating the markerlight rule."

... 15 pages later, still going strong.

-- Haight

Well, regardless of my circumstances, the topic at hand is still relevant. A lot of people still feel strongly about Tau one way or the other.

I'm going to have to review the rules with him before the game/read the entries, because something does seem off. I don't believe he does this on purpose, though. Perhaps he is just poor at interpreting rules lol

It seems like he has a lot of problems understanding all his rules, but I'm not the best either. When I read the markerlight rules the first time, I was declaring what the markerlights would be used for as they hit. But seriously, a lot of drop pods will really help against him. You should probably use all ypur drop pods, I think you said 4, right? Interceptor is only useful on riptides and broadsides, so he can't take too much. The pods and the termies dropping in on turn 1 should be the focus of his fire, so you can do some damage and charge with anything that's left.

Definitely look at the codex for any rules he uses that seem off to you. He seems to be really bad at reading his rules.

Boomwolfe
MEQ seems to still be the most common army, and traditionally, it always has been. This is the first edition where xenos have been stronger than marines on average, so i would expect that to change, especially in metas with newer players. Personally i view this as the greatest change ever to hit 40k.

Xenos,
You really need to read the codex. Never assume your opponent knows his own codex, let alone the rules. Its been my experience that players tend to be...fuzzy, especially with xenos players. Mostly because they aren't as standard as meq
and the imperium (much respect to anyone that memorizes all the stats in the various nid codexes)

Akiasura wrote:
Boomwolfe
MEQ seems to still be the most common army, and traditionally, it always has been. This is the first edition where xenos have been stronger than marines on average, so i would expect that to change, especially in metas with newer players. Personally i view this as the greatest change ever to hit 40k.

Xenos,
You really need to read the codex. Never assume your opponent knows his own codex, let alone the rules. Its been my experience that players tend to be...fuzzy, especially with xenos players. Mostly because they aren't as standard as meq
and the imperium (much respect to anyone that memorizes all the stats in the various nid codexes)

I dunno, 4th edition had Skimmerspam Eldar (GODS) and Fish of Fury tau, which was far and above better then any of the other armies at the time.

Also 2nd edition Eldar with jump packs and Shurikens being GODLIKE.

There were a few outliers, but in general, imperial/MEQ was stronger. This could just be my local experience...online wasn't a big thing for me in 3rd and 4th for 40k, but I did play a lot more back then.
Nids were really strong, and I remember eldar's time in the sun. They competed with the rhino rush and a few other power builds, but you are 100% correct with eldar skimmer spam being just wtf. not only op but unfun to play against. Before them chaos was the most broken thing ever, and came in several flavors of nasty, though that's just another marine flavor. I never found Tau strong before now, but I'll readily admit to seeing their strength represented online, if warseer posts are anything to go by
On average, I think the imperium has always been a bit stronger then xenos, and it's rare to see the same xenos army stay strong throughout edition changes. Something MEQ doesn't have to worry about, since you can always hop codexes pretty easily.

I didn't play second when it was out, but I've tried it. It always seemed the equipment was really strong (bombs) then anyone else.

XenoTerminus

Just to give you a quick bit of advice.
Tau have a chip that allows various rules that have to be picked at the start of the owning models movement.
Target locks basically mean the owning model can shoot at 1 different target.
Marker lights don't affect the shooting of the unit that used them. (So no shooting them first)
Wargear for re-rolls and ignore cover can be used together but the owning model can't shoot.

I hope that helps.

Mr Omega - how are you getting a 6" moving riptide (not 12", like you seem to think) to jump ON a Ruin?

For a start it is only allowed to move on the ground floor

EVen if you agree otherwise, most ruins are 2 stories, meaning to get on top is a 6" move vertically - so they have to be stood directly underneath the level they want to be on

Finally to then jump back down they have to roll at least 6" on 2D6. Far from guaranteed

Back in 4th edition with stupid area terrain LOS rules, JSJ was Godlike. Not the case any longer.

Those are just some of the issues I have with your "Riptide OP!!!" rant

I'd highly recommend that the OP go to his local store and read the Tau codex for 20 mins or ask your opponent to browse through theirs.

Make sure the Tau player's suits only have 2 weapons and 1 piece of equipment (such as target lock) or 1 weapon and 2 pieces of gear, etc. (commanders can have up to 4 pieces of equipment/weapons though).

Next make sure units equipped with multispectrum sensor suite or command & control node aren't shooting if they are using the gear that turn (these are the gear that twin-link weapons and remove cover without markerlights).

Also as other have mentioned previously, it is almost statistically impossible for 4 battle suits to kill 3 vehicles and a scout squad in a single turn with missile pods. It would pretty much require every shot to pen the vehicle and then roll 6s on the damage table.

I really need to meet this Tau opponent of yours and get some tips because my crisis suits can't pull off these feats.

We always generate our lists with army builder and give a copy to the opponent. But I suppose that requires some knowledge of the point value in advance.