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2017/06/27 09:19:15
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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awww boo. Well, we can still use chosen for the same effect, just that chosen are 2 points more expensive. Massed chosen in Rhinos with plama pistols are still possible even if fallen aren't.
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2017/06/27 15:08:07
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Eldenfirefly wrote:Has anyone considered Fallen in Rhinos? Fallen are really cheap at 14 points. Take a faction called Fallen (take vanguard detachment) with Cypher as the hero. Stuff them all into Rhinos and drive forward.
I am actually liking plasma pistols more than plasma or melta guns because plasma pistols are really cheap. (7 points). A fallen with a plasma pistol still has 2 attacks melee and costs only 21 points. You can overcharge him and not feel a pinch even if he dies.
And you can take a LOT of plasma pistols in one squad of fallen. Imagine taking a few squads in a vangaurd detachment. hehe. dozens of plasma shots. And the pistols shoot even when they are locked in close combat!
The fallen cannot ride in rhinos.
I know...it's stupid. Really stupid.
But if you look at the wording in a rhino (or any other dedicated imperial/chaos transport) it says that they have to be a <Legion> or <Chapter> to ride. Fallen are neither of those, therefore fail to quality to ride in any transport.
That's right. At this time, they have forgotten how to get into their own transports.
Latro_ wrote:Think GW kinda FAQ'd it so you can't use the <legion> etc placeholder keywords to match up another keyword.
This.
GW specifically set it up so you cannot use the faction to unlock slots.
For example, how stupid would it be to have a CSM Warp Talon that has the Mark of Chaos of Khorne and the Legion name of Slaanesh? It could benefit from two opposing chaos powers at the same time.
It's a blatant abuse of the rules and not the intended use of the <legion> keyword Automatically Appended Next Post: Eldenfirefly wrote:awww boo. Well, we can still use chosen for the same effect, just that chosen are 2 points more expensive. Massed chosen in Rhinos with plama pistols are still possible even if fallen aren't.
2 points adds up.
That said, combi-bolters on chosen are completely viable. They are great weapons for a fairly cheap platform.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/27 15:11:07
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2017/06/27 16:52:34
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Hey, does anyone have links to the GW FAQ?
I can't find it anywhere.
Thanks.
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2017/06/27 17:58:32
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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2017/06/27 19:01:41
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Seconding that combi-bolters are one of my favorite things atm. They're dirt cheap and can be bolted onto any vehicle (I realize loyalists get this too) or chaos champion.
For Rhinos its either 2xCombi-Bolter/Havoc or Combi-Bolter/Combi-Melta Havoc rn I think. If you're driving your rhinos forward you might as well threaten multi-wound stuff.
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2017/06/27 19:03:10
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
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There might be several tournaments with Power points army composition (100 points i suppose, but rumors are TO might start from 88 points for obvious reasons).
Anyone spoted obvious disparity between power level and points in chaos index?
I know the genecult suffers heavily from power points, orks and nids are more or less balanced.
Daemons get nerfed due to brimstones becoming useless, but CSM overall benefit due to expensive equipment.
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2017/06/27 19:18:00
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Fan67 wrote:There might be several tournaments with Power points army composition (100 points i suppose, but rumors are TO might start from 88 points for obvious reasons).
Anyone spoted obvious disparity between power level and points in chaos index?
I know the genecult suffers heavily from power points, orks and nids are more or less balanced.
Daemons get nerfed due to brimstones becoming useless, but CSM overall benefit due to expensive equipment.
Why would your community even play Power-Level tournaments, if they're the kind of players who want to abuse point-inequity? Isn't the whole point of power-level to keep it casual?
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11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) |
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2017/06/27 19:51:37
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Been Around the Block
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Eldenfirefly wrote:Has anyone considered Fallen in Rhinos? Fallen are really cheap at 14 points. Take a faction called Fallen (take vanguard detachment) with Cypher as the hero. Stuff them all into Rhinos and drive forward.
I am actually liking plasma pistols more than plasma or melta guns because plasma pistols are really cheap. (7 points). A fallen with a plasma pistol still has 2 attacks melee and costs only 21 points. You can overcharge him and not feel a pinch even if he dies.
And you can take a LOT of plasma pistols in one squad of fallen. Imagine taking a few squads in a vangaurd detachment. hehe. dozens of plasma shots. And the pistols shoot even when they are locked in close combat!
Fallen can't go in rhinos. Look at the keywords
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2017/06/27 23:10:08
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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I find it silly that Fallen can't take the place of <legion>, but Red Corsairs can.
No rhinos for fallen is outright silly.
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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2017/06/27 23:42:04
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh
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If fallen could be transported in vehicles chosen would be absolutely awful, since fallen are 2 pts cheaper and are exactly the same (except the keywords)
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2017/06/28 01:22:38
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Well, leaving that aside. Anyone tried chosen with full plasma pistols? Its far cheaper than going full plasma chosen, and you are more willing to overcharge since losing a plasma pistol chosen is just 23 points.
And 12 inches pistol range is still decent. In Rhinos. by second turn, factoring the 3 inch deployment, you would be in range of stuff already.
1st turn Rhino moves 12 inches. 2nd turn deploy 3 inch, move 6 inch, fire 12 inch ... that's 33 inches reach by turn 2.
A Rhino can hold two squads of Chosen. That's ten plasma pistols. If you overcharge, that's 20 plasma damage on turn two coming out of just one Rhino.
They can even charge into combat to avoid getting shot at in the enemy's turn (depends on how they roll their charge range). And the pistols can then continue shooting.
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2017/06/28 01:43:04
Subject: Re:8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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How are people finding Possessed to be in 8th? I've got 15 of the things and I really want to make them work. What legion/mark of chaos do you think would make them work best? I'm thinking Khorne since they can potentially benefit from a Herald of Khorne, but...eh.
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2017/06/28 01:45:48
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Rydria wrote:If fallen could be transported in vehicles chosen would be absolutely awful, since fallen are 2 pts cheaper and are exactly the same (except the keywords)
Well, not exactly, chosen can also take an icon, and have DTtFE while fallen has "fallen angels"
As for the pistols question, unless you are otherwise equipped for melee, I'd go with plasma guns over pistols any day.
Yea, they cost more-but they shoot twice as much, and also have the option to shoot just as good in double the range.
A Rhino can hold two squads of Chosen. That's ten plasma guns. If you overcharge, that's 40 plasma damage on turn two coming out of just one Rhino.
Pistol dudes wont be cheaper-because unless you got an extra melee weapon, you ALWAYS want the gun instead. its just far more efficient.
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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2017/06/28 03:44:41
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Its a much much bigger target though. And its more painful to lose a model if its a plasma gun chosen compared to a plasma pistol chosen.
A Rhino filled with plama gun chosen is a very big target. Just wrecking it and forcing a disembark gives a good chance of losing at least one model.
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2017/06/28 04:07:09
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Eldenfirefly wrote:Its a much much bigger target though. And its more painful to lose a model if its a plasma gun chosen compared to a plasma pistol chosen.
A Rhino filled with plama gun chosen is a very big target. Just wrecking it and forcing a disembark gives a good chance of losing at least one model.
That just means they aren't shooting my two squads of quad heavy bolter rapiers pumping out 72 shots a round anchored by a deredeo dread as much. Point being all of your stuff should be an attractive or necessary target, otherwise, why bring it?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 04:08:49
Help me, Rhonda. HA! |
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2017/06/28 07:01:30
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Gordon Shumway wrote:
That just means they aren't shooting my two squads of quad heavy bolter rapiers pumping out 72 shots a round anchored by a deredeo dread as much. Point being all of your stuff should be an attractive or necessary target, otherwise, why bring it?
How are you fitting your Dorito? I'm using Butcher Cannon Array + Greater Havocs + Heavy Bolters for maximum dakka. I think the FW Index is bugged because it doesn't say how to take the Hellfire Veil, but includes a point cost. I want to try the saker but it just seems...gimmicky.
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2017/06/28 07:36:18
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Debilitate wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote:
That just means they aren't shooting my two squads of quad heavy bolter rapiers pumping out 72 shots a round anchored by a deredeo dread as much. Point being all of your stuff should be an attractive or necessary target, otherwise, why bring it?
How are you fitting your Dorito? I'm using Butcher Cannon Array + Greater Havocs + Heavy Bolters for maximum dakka. I think the FW Index is bugged because it doesn't say how to take the Hellfire Veil, but includes a point cost. I want to try the saker but it just seems...gimmicky.
I equip it the same as you are. Just add the points cost of the veil. The saker is a gimmick. Stay away from it. What you want to shoot with it and what it is good at killing are two different things.
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Help me, Rhonda. HA! |
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2017/06/28 08:47:56
Subject: Re:8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Fresh-Faced New User
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ZergSmasher wrote:How are people finding Possessed to be in 8th? I've got 15 of the things and I really want to make them work. What legion/mark of chaos do you think would make them work best? I'm thinking Khorne since they can potentially benefit from a Herald of Khorne, but...eh.
I would like them to work too but I feel that for the points, Warp Talons would work better. Herald will buff Warp Talons.
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2017/06/28 09:10:13
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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10 possessed in a rhino can be a very nasty distraction for most people. Plus as they have sucked so badly for so long most people will probably ignore them
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2017/06/28 09:37:11
Subject: Re:8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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Been mathing up oblits using the D3 average of 2 for their rolls vs 5 basic terminators with power swords and combi bolters - both units are more or less the same pts cost and the same style of unit e.g. termi armour, multi wounds, deep strike
3 obilts vs marines:
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=6&str=8&ap=2&dam=2&tou=4&wnd=1&sv=3
2.2 dead
3 obilts vs a rhino
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=6&str=8&ap=2&dam=2&tou=7&wnd=10&sv=3
3.5 wounds
5 terminators (combi-bolters) vs marines
24"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=10&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=4&wnd=1&sv=3
1.1 dead
12"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=20&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=4&wnd=1&sv=3
2.22 dead
5 terminators (combi-bolters) vs rhino
24"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=10&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=7&wnd=10&sv=3
0.741 wounds
12"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=20&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=7&wnd=10&sv=3
1.48 wounds
So vs infantry more or less the same
less effective vs bigger stuff
but then you have the fact terminators move faster, this squad has one more wound and attack overall and speaking of combat actually has power weapons to deal out some hurt!
i'm thinking of just proxying my obilts as stock termies!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/28 09:39:52
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2017/06/28 09:40:12
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Forget heralds, the changling is where buffing deamons is at.
Too bad TS can't have warp talons/possessed. (though i guess he does work with disc dudes, but they are already characthers and avoid getting hurt.)
Too bad he's too slow to follow them properly...
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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2017/06/28 09:54:13
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If you want to play a Lord of skulls, Kharn the betrayer actually makes a pretty good buffer to run alongside the daemon engine. He just needs to stick within 1 inch, shouldn't be too hard considering how huge the LOS is. And given the LOS is T8, 28 wounds with a 5++, it will be a long time before anyone can target Kharn... lol
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2017/06/28 11:06:28
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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Has anyone had much exp with huron?
Just making a list and thought about a dark apostle to keep a load of cultists in line but hes like 40pts more and ye get a full lord, fist, psy powers and makes all units (red corsair but meh) units within 6" auto pass ld
seems like a great pick to run along with a bunch of cultists
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2017/06/28 12:08:00
Subject: Re:8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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ZergSmasher wrote:How are people finding Possessed to be in 8th? I've got 15 of the things and I really want to make them work. What legion/mark of chaos do you think would make them work best? I'm thinking Khorne since they can potentially benefit from a Herald of Khorne, but...eh.
Here are some ideas
Khorne
* Run them in a rhino with a Herald of Khorne on a Jugg behind them for a beatstick unit. The jugg can keep up with the rhino and hits like a truck.
* Keep a DP nearby to let them reroll 1s to wound.
Tzeentch
* Run them as tzeentch near the changling to give them a -1 to be hit.
* Keep a herald nearby to give them +1 STR and cast "Boon of Change" on the unit
* Again, keep them in a rhino for the first turn advance.
* Keep a DP nearby to let them reroll 1s to wound.
Slaanesh
* Rush in a rhino along some chariots or seekers.
* When in assault, cast "Hysterical Frenzy" on them to give them another round of assault
* Slaanesh heralds are excellent in assault. A herald on a seeker chariot is pure money
* Keep a DP nearby to let them reroll 1s to wound.
Nurgle
* Heralds can't really keep up
* Possessed can take advantage of the tallymaster, which gives them amazing perks.
* Keep a DP nearby to let them reroll 1s to wound.
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2017/06/28 16:02:02
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Gahh just realised how irritating the Brass Scorpions weapon set up is. Can't shoot it's pistol and it's other weapons due to pistol rules.
On the plus side shooting into combat is cool, and shooting out of combat is cool , but it can't do both at the same time.
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DFTT |
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2017/06/28 17:55:25
Subject: Re:8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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They should probably be Assault 3. Would make them a lot more attractive.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2017/06/28 18:54:16
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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sfshilo wrote:You cannot as they do not have the same faction keywords....
This seems to be coming up a lot lately.
I have created a thread in YMDC where I outlined all the sections from the rules that show is possible.
If you disagree, please post in the thread and we can discuss.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730761.page#9459699
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2017/06/28 22:53:40
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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Done. I would not get your hopes up trying to manipulate rules in eighth ed, GW is not keen on super friends lists and speaking as a former epidemius list runner in fifth it really should not exist. CSM shooting list would be broke as all hell with epidemius giving out bonuses like that.
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2017/06/28 23:52:15
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh
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If i trigger death to the false emperor with a frag grenade/or blastmaster do i do another d6 hit rolls with the weapon again ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 23:52:36
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2017/06/28 23:56:34
Subject: 8th ed CHAOS tactica
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Northridge, CA
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Rydria wrote:If i trigger death to the false emperor with a frag grenade/or blastmaster do i do another d6 hit rolls with the weapon again ?
Fight Phase only ability, does not work in shooting at all.
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