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Smaug wrote:
I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Same reason why GW doesn't lower prices. Profits.

It's DISCOUNT BOX. GW doesn't generally sell those forever.

If you notice never in history of GW have they done reprint of christmas bundles. They do X, they sell, that's it.

tneva82 wrote:

Smaug wrote:
I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Same reason why GW doesn't lower prices. Profits.

It's DISCOUNT BOX. GW doesn't generally sell those forever.

If you notice never in history of GW have they done reprint of christmas bundles. They do X, they sell, that's it.

In the past though X was clearly a much bigger value than X for 2020. In the past they did not sell out in a day online for any of the bundles (if they did then it was 1 exception). GW would make far more normally and sell them in one go.

That's why some think they "could" do two waves or such this year, as an exception, because they could not produce the bulk of kits fast enough for a one launch release. But its only a possible action and it might not come to be. If it did then considering where we are in the year a second wave, if not already planned for, would not come until after Christmas, even for the UK; overseas would be longer still.

considering GW has doubled their production capacity i still find it odd and i'd not put it past gw to artificially create scarcity.

Not Online!!! wrote:
considering GW has doubled their production capacity i still find it odd and i'd not put it past gw to artificially create scarcity.

But for what real gain? The only ones that gain are resellers.
Scarcity would only work if GW could use it to leverage higher and higher prices and whilst they do raise the prices, scarcity has never been a component of that marketing nor approach; they just raise the prices.

Otherwise yes it might help things sell out fast, but GW products aren't video games or DVD's. They don't devalue and get replaced within a year. Heck Skaven are still running around with first generation plastics - kits 10-20 years old and if anything they might even profit, per sale, more off them now than in the past. If not then they are least have lost no margin of sale. So GW isn't under the same pressure as those markets.

Providing GW can keep getting new customers and existing ones can be convinced to start new armies; GW will have a constant stream of sales on almost every model line - at least provided they don't repeat mistakes of the past (eg leaving model lines without updates/marketing/attention/rules for long periods of time).

 Overread wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
considering GW has doubled their production capacity i still find it odd and i'd not put it past gw to artificially create scarcity.

But for what real gain? The only ones that gain are resellers.
Scarcity would only work if GW could use it to leverage higher and higher prices and whilst they do raise the prices, scarcity has never been a component of that marketing nor approach; they just raise the prices.

Otherwise yes it might help things sell out fast, but GW products aren't video games or DVD's. They don't devalue and get replaced within a year. Heck Skaven are still running around with first generation plastics - kits 10-20 years old and if anything they might even profit, per sale, more off them now than in the past. If not then they are least have lost no margin of sale. So GW isn't under the same pressure as those markets.

Providing GW can keep getting new customers and existing ones can be convinced to start new armies; GW will have a constant stream of sales on almost every model line - at least provided they don't repeat mistakes of the past (eg leaving model lines without updates/marketing/attention/rules for long periods of time).

Players buy same kits with full price rather than 70% price. It's not like GW is struggling to shift their kits...

My firestorm order for necron Eradication legion has been 'picked'. So should be on it's way soon

GW seems to really love the limited production bait and switch recently. It seems counterproductive to me in that you piss off as many people or more than you make happy, but I'm obviously not an advertising executive and I'm sure they think they know what they're doing.

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW seems to really love the limited production bait and switch recently. It seems counterproductive to me in that you piss off as many people or more than you make happy, but I'm obviously not an advertising executive and I'm sure they think they know what they're doing.

Where's the bait and switch?


As covered (multiple times now) short falls on production are more due to Corona safety measures and significant reduction of factory output than it is a marketing choice. Heck GW likely had the choice on the table - limited bundles or no bundles at all (since they could well afford the extra production time to keep current kits more in stock than they currently are). We've years of Christmas bundles not selling out on launch day and many lasting well into the new year (and some making it all the way through the year) to know that this is abnormal.

I wasn't suggesting they're deliberately making so few of them that they sell out within one day. I don't think even GW's marketing people would think *that* was a good idea. Even when companies deliberately manipulate supply to create hype, they don't limit supply that drastically.

But they knew perfectly well these were going to sell out right away, and so it was a bit of a bait and switch to big them up via the marketing apparatus and big up the savings and then say "oh well oops, most of you can't actually get one since we don't have enough, and we won't be making more either, LOL better luck next year, in the meantime why not buy some full price sets?" It was bad enough what they did for indomitus, but at least then they could hide behind the fiction that they didn't realize how much demand there was going to be.

The non-bait-and-switch thing would be to have either been up-front about the fact that they had an extremely limited number of them and they were going to sell out effectively instantly, or to let anyone who wanted one order one up to X date like they eventually ended up doing with indomitus, or to distribute them via a lottery, or basically anything other than what they did.

yukishiro1 wrote:


The non-bait-and-switch thing would be to have either been up-front about the fact that they had an extremely limited number of them and they were going to sell out effectively instantly, or to let anyone who wanted one order one up to X date like they eventually ended up doing with indomitus, or to distribute them via a lottery, or basically anything other than what they did.

I don't think you quite get what bait and switch is in terms of shops.

Typically its used when a company advertises one product and then does not deliver that product. So for GW to be baiting and switching it would mean advertising a Tzeentch boxed set, selling you a Tzeentch boxed set and when you open it up you get a brick. That would be baiting and switching.


Running out of stock isn't baiting and switching and I can guarantee you any of the other ideas would have backfired worse most likely. If they said "hey this year stock is even more limited buy fast" do you think anything would have been any different? Lotteries and other methods would have generated just as much ire and complaint and, again, no one would have magically got more stock through it.
Heck we already know that GW is understocked you can look at the general stock levels and the "running out soon" lists they've got up right now.


In the end it was a short term discount deal like any other retailer runs and when the stock is gone its gone.



I get that its annoying to not get one, but in the end here's no models you've missed out on; no exclusive content. It's a bundle deal we'll get them later in 2021 again I'm sure. Heck if they do another big Apoc rules set release we might get some awesome ones like the last time. Plus don't discount physical store stock and ebay.

But they were pretty clear about that, they said quite a few times "act fast", "when they are gone they are gone", and "quantities are limited".

I really don't understand what this community needs GW to do to not go all surprised pikachu every time they release one of these things and people struggle to get ahold of them. This isn't our first rodeo as customers, this crap sells out pretty quick every year (although yes, this was the fastest I've ever seen - usually there are still some of the less desirable boxes left on their webstore at this point as opposed to a complete sell out), but one box always happens to go a good bit faster than the others and disappears within the first few minutes of going up online.

 Overread wrote:


Typically its used when a company advertises one product and then does not deliver that product. So for GW to be baiting and switching it would mean advertising a Tzeentch boxed set, selling you a Tzeentch boxed set and when you open it up you get a brick. That would be baiting and switching.

Uh no, that is straight-up and simple fraud. Bait and switch is when you get people into the store with an offer you know you can't meet demand for only to then say "well actually, all we have is this other thing instead" that isn't as good a deal.

For example:

Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by salespeople to consider similar, but higher-priced items ("switching").

Advertising a discount deal you know won't last and that will be out of stock when most people show up to buy it is classic bait-and-switch. You can technically avoid legal liability by saying magic words like "quantities are limited" but that just means you've accomplished a legal bait-and-switch, not that you haven't advertised something you know you can't deliver on to get people hyped to buy something from you.

But I don't want to argue definitions with someone on the internet, that's always a waste of time.

 Theophony wrote:

Smaug wrote:
I would like it if GW offered a second chance at these sets if it meant that they sold them in a regular cardboard or plain white box. Since there’s no one off special models in these they could be print/ cast/ picked on demand. When Sly Marbo was first sold in stores he had a printed box, and when he was sold on the website later he was in a white box. Why can’t these be sold the same way as long as all the individual parts are available?

Because they are a business and want to make money. The Christmas bundles are to spur on new army builds, they are not meant to actually save you money in the long haul. If they kept them available all the time then people would just buy these boxes and their full priced individual units would sit collecting dust on the shelves. This is to help them get a quick influx of money right before Christmas without having to retool anything or develop anything new.

We all would like to save money on an existing army, but that is what the start collecting boxes are to GW. These are just panic buy plastic crack bundles to get people addicted to a whole new army.

tneva82 wrote:
Same reason why GW doesn't lower prices. Profits.

It's DISCOUNT BOX. GW doesn't generally sell those forever.

If you notice never in history of GW have they done reprint of christmas bundles. They do X, they sell, that's it.

I didn’t mean to imply that these should be part of the standard catalog. I was thinking if the boxes with the art work are the limiting factor and if they sell out in under an hour then maybe make the individual parts if not in the same box available at the same discount to everyone to order for a set time be it a day or weekend. If the Indomitus box can get a second print run why can’t these? They’re all limited discounted box sets and the parts in the Indomitus box where not on the shelf.

I think the main thing is GW is absolutely terrified of discounts generally. They never, ever put anything on sale, because their marketing is that they're a "premium" brand and premium brands don't go on sale. All discounts have to be trussed up as a "bundle" to avoid brand devaluation. They'll do what are effectively doorbusters because they're so effective, but they are always really careful to avoid anything that smacks of permanent, year-round discounts.

Even the "start collecting" boxes are usually very carefully designed so there is at least one unit (usually a character) that people aren't going to want more than one of, which not coincidentally is exactly what is thrown in on top of the normal price - so you can buy a single start collecting box and get a deal, but any more and you're actually not paying any less than you would to buy things separately, you're just getting one very cheap to produce and effectively duplicative character on top of it.

Overread, how would you describe the situation with Space Marine Heroes 3: The Nurglefication?

I don't recall anything in the WHC articles leading up to the release weekend indicating anything about it being a single wave of releases, and when they're gone they're gone, yet that's what happened.

In all seriousness, I dislike the way GW releases limited stock and such as much anyone. That said at the start, they do this every year. If I want one I talk to my local store and usually make sure to get the one I want, this year I actually didn't want anything from it has been a few years since I wanted a holiday bundle actually.

Try not to let it get to you, nothing limited in it to get bent out of shape over. You want to show GW you are angry ? Stop buying their stuff, nothing else speaks to these companies and if you won't do that, they'll just do what they do.

And what GW is doing is smol smol fishies compared to the nonsense "sneakerhead" community/companies get up to. GW would love to sell you as much as possible, they just didnt have stock at hand. Sneaker companies go into it knowing there wont be anywhere near enough pairs to satisfy demand on purpose.

 Overread wrote:

I get that its annoying to not get one, but in the end here's no models you've missed out on; no exclusive content. It's a bundle deal we'll get them later in 2021 again I'm sure.

well for the Necrons, here the Guard and the Spider were already out of stock long before the Box came in, and still are

so if you wanted for whatever reason to use any of the Elite Guard units or the Spider, the Box was your only chance to get them

which is not only covid related but GW still not getting that new Codex+new Models is a big boost in sales for non-Space Marines as well (as the SM models are still in stock so you just miss out the discount if you wanted all of them)

For anyone looking in the UK, my FLGS has added their stock to their website. All sets are currently still available. I grabbed a Space Marine and Necron one.

Games Workshop marketing closely matches Disney's. Limited runs of items because they don't have to compete to capture sales- if you're willing to pay 200 for a discounted box, you're probably not willing to buy slightly lower quality alternatives from competing companies at 1/2 the price.

And this isn't just a Christmas thing. GW has been almost instantly selling out of limited runs since Space Hulk. Indomitus was another very recent example. They know their demand, and they're deliberately underproducing because they make most of their sales before the product even hits their factory. If you don't have to pay to store product, it's higher profit. The only possible loss are the customers who don't have the chance to buy your limited product- but much of the time they're galvanized to buy faster next time instead of giving up. People are strange, but GW has the number of its fans.

Indomitus wasn't deliberate. If it was - there wouldn't have been made to order.
I'm more annoyed about all the cards/dice being so limited. Yeah, these bundles are great deal, sure, but you can pretty much get everything separately if you really need it.
I was forced to sell all my Necromunda, just because I couldn't get the whole collection as the cards were instantly bought by scalpers.

Aren't the Necromunda cards just reference materials for things in the rulebooks? Or did they pull some of the same bs they did with Titanicus (and Aeronautica?) where the cards contain unique content?

The cards are unique content, but also not really required. They’re like the blood bowl cards if you’ve played that.

Nope, haven't touched blood bowl. Haven't even really touched Necromunda, I've been buying the books for fluff and background more than for the game, though I've been interested in actually playing for some time.

Kinda sucks that I'm gated out of being able to get the full experience by limited availability product with unique content though, I've been lucky enough to grab up everything for AI and AT, but even that has me kinda livid that they would do something that is so objectively anti-consumer and anti-gamer.

Aaaaand its gone.

For people still looking for these - well, other than the Necron and Tzeentch ones - it looks like my LGS has a few still in stock.

Hope it helps.

In the US, have anyone's Christmas boxes shipped from GW? Mine has been showing "Delivery starts in 6 days" for as long as I've been checking, which was 6 days ago.

They're arms deep in Christmas shipping.

GabrielV wrote:
In the US, have anyone's Christmas boxes shipped from GW? Mine has been showing "Delivery starts in 6 days" for as long as I've been checking, which was 6 days ago.

If it's any consolation, I'm in the UK and mine's not shipped either! It's curious, as I'd ordered some other stuff from the store on Saturday and that arrived today, standard delivery too.

They said a while ago they weren't guaranteeing anything ordered after Dec. 4th to be delivered by Christmas. Presumably that also means anything ordered before that will also end up significantly delayed.